Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

If people don't want to fight, it's their choice but just because some people decides to run away doesn't mean that the rest of the people should be forced into some shitty peace deal they have no desire for like the guy I quoted was insinuating.

If eventually Ukraine runs out of manpower they will be forced to one way or another. Armchair experts or not. Apart perhaps from some Russians on the CAF no one else is rooting for Russia here.
 
Perhaps relevant to the current line of discussion: here's the latest video from the 'Ukrainian Interviews' channel. It's basically one brave (because he's harrassed by the Ukrainian authorities) guy who goes around Kiev and other cities asking Ukrainians their opinions of the war. The topic of this one was "How will the war end?" His English isn't the best, hence the mistakes in the subtitles sometimes, but you'll get the gist. He has a video from a year ago asking this same question and it's instructive to see how the answers are changing.

 
If eventually Ukraine runs out of manpower they will be forced to one way or another. Armchair experts or not. Apart perhaps from some Russians on the CAF no one else is rooting for Russia here.
Thats how it works yes but it's the Ukrainians who will decide if and when that happens. Not China, not Russia and not the "global west" (whoever that is).
There might not be that many that are directly rooting for Russia but there are certinly quite a lot who are acting like useful idiots.
 
Thats how it works yes but it's the Ukrainians who will decide if and when that happens. Not China, not Russia and not the "global west" (whoever that is).
There might not be that many that are directly rooting for Russia but there are certinly quite a lot who are acting like useful idiots.

For sure, but Ukraine is massively reliant on western aid. If that has an expiration date then their hand is forced.
 
Even more shocking how a handful of people sitting behind a computer screen has decided that the Ukrainians no longer wants to fight for their country and their freedome.

If Ukranians wanted to fight, they wouldn't be forcing people to sign up and cutting off consular services.
 
If Ukranians wanted to fight, they wouldn't be forcing people to sign up and cutting off consular services.
The consular service restrictions are only temporary while the new mobilization law is being implemented. The restrictions will be lifted tomorrow when the new law comes into force.
As for your other claim I'd be happy yo see some evidence of those claims.
 
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The consular service restrictions are only temporary while the new mobilization law is being implemented. The restrictions will be lifted tomorrow when the new law comes into force.
As for your other claim I'd be happy yo see some evidence of those claims.

If you're so ideologically involved, go fight alongside them. Plenty of people joined up at the start of the war - at least they have the right to tell Ukranians to fight.

You can't be sat in your basement on the keyboard asking people to die for a war they want to end.
 
If you're so ideologically involved, go fight alongside them. Plenty of people joined up at the start of the war - at least they have the right to tell Ukranians to fight.

You can't be sat in your basement on the keyboard asking people to die for a war they want to end.

This is a misrepresentation of what is happening. Its the Ukrainians who are doing the fighting because they want to avoid going back to the USSR, not the West coaxing unwilling Ukrainians to fight the Russians.
 
I occasionally scan this thread and it's surprising how often it's the same folk arguing over very black and white often hyperbolic statements.

Apparently the only options are fighting an existential threat against the USSR or being a coward. There couldn't possibly be Ukrainians who are somewhere in between those two positions.
 
An old bloke from my hometown fled to france when he was drafted to fight for portugal in angola. A couple of years later he volunteered to fight in timor against the indonesians. Not sure if he's a coward or a brave man.
 
I occasionally scan this thread and it's surprising how often it's the same folk arguing over very black and white often hyperbolic statements.

Apparently the only options are fighting an existential threat against the USSR or being a coward. There couldn't possibly be Ukrainians who are somewhere in between those two positions.

Well its either bending over backwards and taking it in the arse or throwing yourself into the meat grinder. Both attractive options.
 
If you're so ideologically involved, go fight alongside them. Plenty of people joined up at the start of the war - at least they have the right to tell Ukranians to fight.

You can't be sat in your basement on the keyboard asking people to die for a war they want to end.
Where have I asked anyone to die or even to fight?
I was objecting to your opinion that Ukraine should be pressured by the rest of the world into some peace deal they don't desire.
No one is forcing the Ukrainians to defend themself, they choose to do that themself and no one should force them into a peace deal they don't desire.
 
I live in Poland in a city with the most number of Ukrainian refugees and immigrants and overall interact a lot with Ukrainians due to nature of my work.
Over the past few months, I've had several discussions about the war with them, men or women and here are my most honest observations from what I've been told:

- Almost none of them believes Ukraine can get their territory back. All they talk about is ending the war before they lose even more men and territory. I had a haircut today and my hairdresser, Daria from Kherson, was saying how her family has moved to Poland too. She said, "I've accepted that we're never going back. Our home is permanently gone, so we have to make new home here."

- The mood among the men is even more intense, especially after the recent consular services ban. I have a good friend of 4 years, here, he's been living in Poland since 2015. He's furious. He says: "I absolutely hate the Russian regime, but what our gov't is doing is crazy. Look at the size of Russia! How can we expect to beat them as our population shrinks further and further and we don't have anywhere near as many resources as we do. Everyday more and more people die. For what? For reaching the same conclusion or worse than can be reached right now? And now it's focusing on people like me and hundreds of thousand more Ukrainian men who've been living here for years. Long before the war!? Only a very deluded person (Zelensky) can believe we can get major territories back, let alone Crimea. Everyday I see on Telegram videos of random bystander men being kidnapped at bus stations or grocery stores to enlist and go to the front-line. It's crazy !! How are these soldiers supposed to have motivation to fight?

- There is another group that genuinely now believe Zelensky has always been a Russian asset. my Ex is from Odessa (she lives here in Poland) and she was saying that in Odessan cycles now there is genuine rumours that Zelensky has always been an FSB asset. How he was so unprepared for the invasion, he didn't heed to warnings of Western Intelligence services, how he denied advise of NATO generals regarding the failed counter-offensive effort, how he's let major corruption run rampant in the personnel and how, this part very sad: "He's selling our future.There is no winning for us in this war. Everyday it continues, we'll lose more. We're left with an unpayable debt, our most fertile lands sold to American corporations, and our bravest and most capable generation of men either dead or on the run who'll never come back to Ukraine due to fear of being prosecuted escaping draft. This consular services ban just ensure more and more Ukrainians will never return home even after it's over.

No one wants to die. That's what I gather from my conversations with lots of Ukrainian men here. It's all nice for us to say: "Western weapons & strategy + Ukrainian manpower" is the formula to victory, but anyone who wanted to genuinely join the war effort and go to the front-lines risking their lives, has already done that. That's why the manpower debate is so vital. Also, earlier in the war, very few Ukrainians were talking about un-payable national debt and selling best lands to American corporations, but now it's becoming a lot more of a talking point. Also, Zelensky firing Zaluzhny seems to have lost him lots of support, since Zaluzhny appears to be the more popular of the two now.


It's a really dire and lose-lose situaiton to be honest. I don't know what the solution is, but the real ordinary people are hurting very bad. Be it if they are in Ukraine or outside of it. and they want an end to it much sooner than later.

Ya Russian troll, Putin apologist, Kremlin propagandist...

I largely agree with your observations. The situation seems increasingly dire, with many Ukrainians losing hope of ever returning to their homeland, and the emotional toll is palpable, as families like Daria's accept that their homes are gone forever, and the men feel trapped in an endless conflict with no viable path to victory. The continued loss of life and resources for an outcome that seems increasingly unattainable is truly tragic.

Just one tiny detail though: Zelenskiy as a Russian asset? Please. There's no secret spy thriller here. He’s just a well-meaning actor that has been reciting lines fed by Western directors and only now realizing he's in way over his head.
 
Current home of Russia's black sea fleet and nearby refinery has took a battering. They claim they shot down all drones of course (with their faces).


 
Ya Russian troll, Putin apologist, Kremlin propagandist...

I largely agree with your observations. The situation seems increasingly dire, with many Ukrainians losing hope of ever returning to their homeland, and the emotional toll is palpable, as families like Daria's accept that their homes are gone forever, and the men feel trapped in an endless conflict with no viable path to victory. The continued loss of life and resources for an outcome that seems increasingly unattainable is truly tragic.

Just one tiny detail though: Zelenskiy as a Russian asset? Please. There's no secret spy thriller here. He’s just a well-meaning actor that has been reciting lines fed by Western directors and only now realizing he's in way over his head.

All of this could have been duly avoided if a country didn't have delusions of grandeur wanting to bring back the days of wanton annexation.

Apparently it's all the West's fault, yet again, for Russian deciding, out of its own free will, to invade another sovereign country.
 
All of this could have been duly avoided if a country didn't have delusions of grandeur wanting to bring back the days of wanton annexation.

Apparently it's all the West's fault, yet again, for Russian deciding, out of its own free will, to invade another sovereign country.

A bunch of nonsense as usual. Your posts are either incoherent or spiteful, like when you ask for people you disagree with to be banned from the thread/forum.
 
A bunch of nonsense as usual. Your posts are either incoherent or spiteful, like when you ask for people you disagree with to be banned from the thread/forum.

incoherent?
I’m not the one somehow blaming the west for one countries unilateral decision to invade another.

regarding asking another person to be banned, there is credible evidence to suggest someone who had precisely 0 posts about anything else other than this, might not have honest intentions about why they are on a Man Utd forum.
 
incoherent?
I’m not the one somehow blaming the west for one countries unilateral decision to invade another.

regarding asking another person to be banned, there is credible evidence to suggest someone who had precisely 0 posts about anything else other than this, might not have honest intentions about why they are on a Man Utd forum.

They have one post about Everton :lol:
 
A bunch of nonsense as usual. Your posts are either incoherent or spiteful, like when you ask for people you disagree with to be banned from the thread/forum.

Russia unilaterally invaded Ukraine. Therefore his point is not only valid, its incontrovertible.
 
A bunch of nonsense as usual. Your posts are either incoherent or spiteful, like when you ask for


The lack of self-awareness is astounding. His postings are corroborated by his academic, profissional background and field knowledge. He's an invaluable contributer here and users have learned from his posts.

You're someone who gets his knowledge from the Michael Flynn, Scott Ritter, Maga weekly podcasts. You're our very own Marjorie Taylor Greene.

In less than one year he has contributed more to this forum than the rubbish you write since 2001.
 
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The lack of self-awareness is astounding. His postings are corroborated by his academic and profissional background and field knowledge. He's a invaluable contributer here and users have learned from his posts.

You're someone who gets his knowledge from the Michael Flynn, Scott Ritter, Maga weekly podcasts. You're our very own Marjorie Taylor Greene.

In less than one year he has contributed more to this forum than the rubbish you write since 2001.

completely agree
 
The lack of self-awareness is astounding. His postings are corroborated by his academic and profissional background and field knowledge. He's a invaluable contributer here and users have learned from his posts.

You're someone who gets his knowledge from the Michael Flynn, Scott Ritter, Maga weekly podcasts. You're our very own Marjorie Taylor Greene.

In less than one year he has contributed more to this forum than the rubbish you write since 2001.

Don't forget Musk's pal David Sacks. The #1 Putin apologist on American Twitter.
 
The lack of self-awareness is astounding. His postings are corroborated by his academic and profissional background and field knowledge. He's a invaluable contributer here and users have learned from his posts.

You're someone who gets his knowledge from the Michael Flynn, Scott Ritter, Maga weekly podcasts. You're our very own Marjorie Taylor Greene.

In less than one year he has contributed more to this forum than the rubbish you write since 2001.

Spot on. @AfonsoAlves can get a bit intense, and I don't agree with everything he says, but there's a vast gulf between them.
 
The lack of self-awareness is astounding. His postings are corroborated by his academic, profissional background and field knowledge. He's an invaluable contributer here and users have learned from his posts.

You're someone who gets his knowledge from the Michael Flynn, Scott Ritter, Maga weekly podcasts. You're our very own Marjorie Taylor Greene.

In less than one year he has contributed more to this forum than the rubbish you write since 2001.

He only posts once every two weeks, so it may be a while.
 
Well, well, well...



Single shot, short burst fire looks somewhat effective and stable. Can't imagine its too accurate while manually aimed but must be fecking terrifying knowing one of these is above you.
 
“This was the biggest problem, we didn’t see how they were moving, we only worked through radio or through phones where they still worked,” Artist, a 53-year-old sergeant, said. The drone feeds, he said, “simply disappeared.”


 
Well, well, well...



Single shot, short burst fire looks somewhat effective and stable. Can't imagine its too accurate while manually aimed but must be fecking terrifying knowing one of these is above you.


That might be true, but that account is such a notorious liar that the video might be fake or show something else for all we know.
 
That might be true, but that account is such a notorious liar that the video might be fake or show something else for all we know.

Oh I dunno the account, saw it on a reddit post and just searched for baby yaga as twitter is easier to link. He's not the source, there's older posts with the clip.
 
Ukraine’s New Mobilization Law Comes Into Force

  • The new law includes major changes to the country’s mobilization drive, the most notable of which is lowering the minimum age for conscription from 27 to 25 and replacing conscription with military training for men aged 18-25.
  • The new law also stipulates that men aged 18-60 in Ukraine are to carry their military registration documents with them at all times and present them upon request from military commission officers, police officers or border guards.
  • Starting May 18, conscripts are also required to update their current address, contact information and other military records within 60 days through government institutions or the Rezerv+ mobile application, which was released on the same day.
  • As for Ukrainian men abroad, the new law stipulates that they will not be able to receive consular services – including passport renewals – without military registration, though it’s not immediately clear if they can start receiving services starting May 18 after the recent suspensions.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32865
 
Wonder what the effects will be on Ukraine's population pyramid when it's all said and done.
 
So what we are going to see now is a lot of Ukrainians renounce their citizenship, especially those who have lived abroad for many years pre war.

Tragic really since they won’t be coming back, especially since Ukraine doesn’t allow dual nationality.
 
So what we are going to see now is a lot of Ukrainians renounce their citizenship, especially those who have lived abroad for many years pre war.

Tragic really since they won’t be coming back, especially since Ukraine doesn’t allow dual nationality.

Can't fault them since many are in western nations with a better quality of life. I'm sure they will return to visit once the war is over and circumstances permit.
 
Well, well, well...



Single shot, short burst fire looks somewhat effective and stable. Can't imagine its too accurate while manually aimed but must be fecking terrifying knowing one of these is above you.


this is something that looks cool but is tactically useless.
It might hurt or kill someone every now and then but the cost and maintainance to effectiveness ratio is very poor.
Just look at the kickback the burst fire produced, the drone controller needs to have South Korean pro gamer levels of ability on the Xbox controller in order to handle that to any degree of accuracy.

it’s also a sitting duck, all it takes is one guy on the drones right and another on the left and the drone is toast.

This is why single entity high suppression tactical fires will always fail. A machine gun is a support weapon, not a weapon capable of causing mass casualties in war. Their job is to keep enemy positions suppressed so the most accurate tactical fires or the most damaging ones have the space and time to do their job. Things like accurate rifle fire, mortars, grenades, artillery etc.

A single machine gun drone roaming around is just hilariously bad and breaks just about every tactical level doctrine established by modern and even Cold War militaries
 
Can't fault them since many are in western nations with a better quality of life. I'm sure they will return to visit once the war is over and circumstances permit.

oh I’m not blaming the people, this is entirely on the government.

they won’t come back, to gain citizenship anywhere else, you have to renounce your Ukrainian one. Historically Ukraine has always been very militant towards Ukrainians who have left and tried to come back.
And that mentality might really cement itself if they see the reason is to avoid a draft.
 
this is something that looks cool but is tactically useless.
It might hurt or kill someone every now and then but the cost and maintainance to effectiveness ratio is very poor.
Just look at the kickback the burst fire produced, the drone controller needs to have South Korean pro gamer levels of ability on the Xbox controller in order to handle that to any degree of accuracy.

it’s also a sitting duck, all it takes is one guy on the drones right and another on the left and the drone is toast.

This is why single entity high suppression tactical fires will always fail. A machine gun is a support weapon, not a weapon capable of causing mass casualties in war. Their job is to keep enemy positions suppressed so the most accurate tactical fires or the most damaging ones have the space and time to do their job. Things like accurate rifle fire, mortars, grenades, artillery etc.

A single machine gun drone roaming around is just hilariously bad and breaks just about every tactical level doctrine established by modern and even Cold War militaries
Is it possible to view it less as something that's neither intented to apply suppression fire nor directly kill people, but more as a way of "psychological warfare"? "You can be hit wherever and whenever we want". Keeping the stress level of troops at (or just near) the frontline high should weaken them.