Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

The Firestarter said:
Everyone steals, and everyone knows that everyone steals. It's just when you become inconvenient or suspicious when it suddenly becomes an issue.
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Isn't the issue that they hampered Putin's war effort? Think that's the real crime and their replacements will know better.
 
Putin doesn't give a shit who is hampering his war efforts.

Serdyukov who was the former Russian minister of defense openly talked about how corrupt the Russian Army was and things actually really started improving under him...only for Putin to dislike him and replace him with Shoigu, a guy who has about as much military experience as Rishi Sunak.

Surovikin was probably the most competent field commander in the Russian Army (only in the South, under his command, did the Russians actually make very good progress in the initial days), and he's now under house arrest because he basically had a conversation with Prigozhin.

Gerasimov has had his wings clipped and now all of his deputies and chiefs are being arrested and fired.
 
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the hea said:
S-400 intercepted all ATACMS missiles.
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Now that is quality footage, god damn. Almost wonder if its even worth it taking out these S-400, they seem so useless. Suppose they still stop enemy aircraft from flying high altitude.
 
VorZakone said:
If I recall correctly from a NYT piece some while ago, this is basically the same message.

Current frontlines are not the same as pre-invasion borders. For example, there are still parts of southern Ukraine occupied. These are post-invasion gained territories.

Interestingly the article notes that Putin wants to avoid a new round of mobilization.
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Here's a new UK MoD map...

 
One could perhaps make the argument that with weapons coming in from the multi-billion aid package and other coming developments such as F-16's and Ukraine intensifying its mobilization efforts, that Putin fears the momentum will shift against him again.
 
VorZakone said:
One could perhaps make the argument that with weapons coming in from the multi-billion aid package and other coming developments such as F-16's and Ukraine intensifying its mobilization efforts, that Putin fears the momentum will shift against him again.
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Its simply a matter of taking advantage of the Ukrainians being short on ammo while Congress dithered. The Russians would've been exceptionally incompetent to not attempt to exploit this in some way.
 
VorZakone said:
This summit takes place June 15-16.

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Cool, they'll sit down and all state the obvious, that the only way to achieve lasting peace is to kick Russia the fook out of Ukraine, then quickly get on with supplying everything needed to get the job done.

If only.
 
VorZakone said:
One could perhaps make the argument that with weapons coming in from the multi-billion aid package and other coming developments such as F-16's and Ukraine intensifying its mobilization efforts, that Putin fears the momentum will shift against him again.
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The word here from commentators I trust (I know, I know, everything I read is delusional propaganda) is that it's connected with the seizing of assets rather than mobilisation or new weapons (though that former is a factor). It's no longer a threat, the West is actively working on doing it from next month. What Putin and everyone among the Western hierarchs have in common is that seizing Russian assets is something neither side wants to happen, the West for obvious and exhaustively documented reasons and Putin for, oh let's call it, 'domestic considerations' (Mordashov's yacht is one thing, etc). Seizing the capital - not skimming the profit - would be the last of last resorts and would have irrevocable consequences for any future negotiations. It wouldn't surprise me if that article were mostly accurate in its details, insofar as Putin saying "We really don't want to go down that road, what about you?"
 
DT12 said:
The word here from commentators I trust (I know, I know, everything I read is delusional propaganda) is that it's connected with the seizing of assets rather than mobilisation or new weapons (though that former is a factor). It's no longer a threat, the West is actively working on doing it from next month. What Putin and everyone among the Western hierarchs have in common is that seizing Russian assets is something neither side wants to happen, the West for obvious and exhaustively documented reasons and Putin for, oh let's call it, 'domestic considerations' (Mordashov's yacht is one thing, etc). Seizing the capital - not skimming the profit - would be the last of last resorts and would have irrevocable consequences for any future negotiations. It wouldn't surprise me if that article were mostly accurate in its details, insofar as Putin saying "We really don't want to go down that road, what about you?"
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Ah, interesting angle.
 
All Putin wants is a couple of years of "peace", build up, and go for rest of Ukraine at a later date.

This is just something Putin says so the anti-west people can go "look, Putin actually wants peace, but the imperialist west rejected it".
 
Good read this.

A disturbing firsthand account of how a convicted drug dealer from Moscow went from prisoner to frontline soldier and now asylum seeker in France.

“I’d often hear stuff like – oh, what was I thinking, trading my lovely, comfortable cell for this pile of shit?” Andrei recalls. “Say you had another chance – a fairy comes down with a wave of her wand and whoosh! You’re back in your cell, with three extra years to serve, would you take it? Yes, yes! Anything – just get me out of here!”
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He acknowledges, reluctantly, that the Ukrainians are driven by the urge to defend their native land. “They are so stubborn, they hate us,” he says. “And we’re just fighting for the sake of it…that’s the life we fecking lead.”
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“All their stuff is cooler and better quality. We’ve got made-in-China; they’ve got made by NATO.” This applied to food and uniforms too, he says. He remembers spending his final days in the war zone in the trousers taken from a Ukrainian serviceman. All the Storm V fighters had blisters from the boots they were given, he says.
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https://bbcrussian.substack.com/p/brutal-reality-of-life-russian-convict-fighter
 
Morty_ said:
All Putin wants is a couple of years of "peace", build up, and go for rest of Ukraine at a later date.
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50 of the world's most advanced economies are currently arming Ukraine. We keep being told that they need another year or so before everything is firing at capacity. Meanwhile, the Russian economy is on its last legs (the same people tell us), and the sanctions mean it will take Russia decades to reconstitute its military. And so using the very principle in your post, those 50 (fifty) countries could ALSO use the couple of years of "peace" to "build up" Ukraine's army, using economic and military means that absolutely dwarf Russia. It would also give Ukraine time to actually train the new mobilised recruits to "NATO standards" and get the F-16 programme properly up to scratch.

You see something doesn't quite make sense does it, when Washington and London continuously say a ceasefire is out of the question because "Russia will simply use the time to rearm". What, and your 50-nation alliance won't? The current situation of an outmanned, outgunned and exhausted Ukraine being ground down is preferable? How does a ceasefire benefit an "economically crippled" Russia more than a 50-nation alliance of advanced militaries and economies?

And I'll keep saying it. Russia does not want "the rest of Ukraine". There is no logical argument for Russia to want, for example, Lviv or Lutsk. Assuming it were even possible to do such a thing (it isn't), it would be a crippling financial liability for Russia. I can't be bothered to lay it all out but if you even knew the colossal cost involved in 'Russifying' Crimea and its citizens 10 years ago. It makes sense to do that for Crimea and the Donbass, but Western Ukraine? For what does anyone in Russia need that place? It cost billions of rubles to do something so basic as provide passports and pensions to the citizens of Crimea, so I'll ask again: why would Russia do that for literally millions of Western Ukrainians who are not ethnically Russian and have no desire to ever be culturally Russian?
 
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DT12 said:
50 of the world's most advanced economies are currently arming Ukraine. We keep being told that they need another year or so before everything is firing at capacity. Meanwhile, the Russian economy is on its last legs (the same people tell us), and the sanctions mean it will take Russia decades to reconstitute its military. And so using the very principle in your post, those 50 (fifty) countries could ALSO use the couple of years of "peace" to "build up" Ukraine's army. It would also give Ukraine time to actually train the new mobilised recruits to "NATO standards" and get the F-16 programme properly up to scratch.

You see something doesn't make sense does it, when Washington and London continuously say a ceasefire is out of the question because "Russia will simply use the time to rearm". What, and your 50-nation alliance won't? The current situation of an outmanned, outgunned and exhausted Ukraine being ground down is preferable?

And I'll keep saying it. Russia does not want "the rest of Ukraine". There is no logical argument for Russia to want, for example, Lviv or Lutsk. Assuming it were even possible to do such a thing (it isn't), it would be a crippling financial liability for Russia. I can't be bothered to lay it all out but if you even knew the colossal cost involved in 'Russifying' Crimea and its citizens 10 years ago. It makes sense to do that for Crimea and the Donbass, but Western Ukraine? For what does anyone in Russia need that place? It cost billions of rubles to do something so basic as provide passports and pensions to the citizens of Crimea, so I'll ask again: why would Russia do that for literally millions of Western Ukrainians who are not ethnically Russian and have no desire to ever be culturally Russian?
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You can keep shouting it from the rooftops for all i care, all of Ukraine was the objective, i guess they just rolled all of those tanks towards Kyiv for fun, eh?
Russia even embraced that stuff, "we only didn't take Kyiv, cause we were asked to leave" and all that sort of nonsense.

Can we, stop buying their talking points, for once?

Putin isn't acting solely out of rationality, he keeps telling us, every so often, that Ukraine isn't a real country, Ukranians aren't real people, and that Soviet Unions collapse was about the biggest mistake ever, and nevermind the leaked plans for Moldova.


To put it this way, the economics isn't Putin's concern, he wont be around to see the long-term fallout anyway, he wants to be remembered in history.
 
Similar to the above, 'former' Chinese PLA soldier fighting for Russia. Though he doesn't come across as some dumb merc, more like an officer sent there to experience the war first hand and this is his report back.

 
Morty_ said:
To put it this way, the economics isn't Putin's concern, he wont be around to see the long-term fallout anyway, he wants to be remembered in history.
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Are you listening to yourself? Putin doesn't care about the economic collapse of Russia that he will be responsible for, because he'll be dead when it happens...but his main objective is to be remembered as a great man in Russian history?

And he didn't say the collapse of the Soviet Union was a mistake, he said it was a tragedy. He also said only a fool would want to see it brought back. If you're going to use his words to corroborate your point you need to use them accurately.
 
Putin invaded Crimea, but that wasn't enough. So he went after all of Ukraine by attempting to take Kyiv and other big cities in addition to Donbas. So why would anyone believe he would stop there ?
 
DT12 said:
Are you listening to yourself? Putin doesn't care about the economic collapse of Russia that he will be responsible for, because he'll be dead when it happens...but his main objective is to be remembered as a great man in Russian history?

And he didn't say the collapse of the Soviet Union was a mistake, he said it was a tragedy. He also said only a fool would want to see it brought back. If you're going to use his words to corroborate your point you need to use them accurately.
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Yes, i am listening to myself.

He wants to be remembered for land gains, economic collapses comes and goes, he wants to be remembered for the one who brought back the Russian Empire/USSR.
 
Raoul said:
Putin invaded Crimea, but that wasn't enough. So he went after all of Ukraine by attempting to take Kyiv and other big cities in addition to Donbas. So why would anyone believe he would stop there ?
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Just trust him bro, he is totally serious this time.

Sounds familiar? I can think of something...
 
Morty_ said:
Yes, i am listening to myself.

He wants to be remembered for land gains, economic collapses comes and goes, he wants to be remembered for the one who brought back the Russian Empire/USSR.
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Christ on a bike. Do you know of many economically-collapsed states that hung on to a "land grab" of the biggest country in Europe with a 40-million population? What exactly are they going to be hanging on to it WITH, if Russia itself has gone down the crapper?

Anyway have a fine Friday evening (sincerely), I'm off out for a while.
 
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Perhaps not the best thread but I guess it fits in the larger context of Russian spy activities in Europe.

MEP Clare Daly helped the Russians contact Omagh bomber
Clare Daly, the independent Dublin MEP, gave a Russian spy contact details for a paramilitary held liable for the Omagh bombing and facing extradition on terrorism charges, The Sunday Times can reveal.

The communications took place when Russia’s intelligence services were trying to forge links to republican paramilitary organisations as part of wider efforts to destabilise the European Union.
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https://www.thetimes.com/world/irel...d-the-russians-contact-omagh-bomber-lq0wlskfm
 
Is Russian bot here today to repeat what exactčy are the 4 Putin's aims (which supposedly havent been changed and he keeps track and believes everything Putin says) and to point out a tank column to Kiev was just for the fun.
 
Sweden announced its latest weapon package today and one thing that really stood out is that they are donating some of their Saab 340 AEWCS planes.

The support package will include Airborne Surveillance and Control aircraft (ASC 890), which will provide Ukraine with a completely new capability against both airborne and maritime targets. Ukraine’s capability to identify and engage targets at long range will be strengthened. The package will also include a holistic solution that involves training, technical equipment and methodological support for air surveillance and command and control.

The donation will entail a temporary decrease of Sweden’s defence capability, which will be addressed by procuring additional S 106 GlobalEye aircraft and advancing previous orders for two new GlobalEye aircraft.
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https://www.government.se/press-rel...ce-and-support-to-meet-its-prioritised-needs/
 
Russian trolls pretending to be commanders in Ukraine's 47th Mechanised Brigade speak to Russian propaganda outlet CNN:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/29/europe/ukraine-war-us-tanks-intl/index.html

"The Ukrainian crew expressed frustration the tanks were made for a NATO style of warfare, in which air power and artillery prepare the battlefield before tanks and infantry advance. Kyiv has long bemoaned its lack of artillery and air power.

“They would never do it,” Joker said, of NATO soldiers undertaking the same advances they make without air support. He switched to English to mimic a NATO soldier: “‘Call the aviation, call the artillery,’” he said. “We have no aviation and artillery. We have only tank. And it’s the problem.”


CNN should be banned for peddling Putin's propaganda like this.
 
DT12 said:
Russian trolls pretending to be commanders in Ukraine's 47th Mechanised Brigade speak to Russian propaganda outlet CNN:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/29/europe/ukraine-war-us-tanks-intl/index.html

"The Ukrainian crew expressed frustration the tanks were made for a NATO style of warfare, in which air power and artillery prepare the battlefield before tanks and infantry advance. Kyiv has long bemoaned its lack of artillery and air power.

“They would never do it,” Joker said, of NATO soldiers undertaking the same advances they make without air support. He switched to English to mimic a NATO soldier: “‘Call the aviation, call the artillery,’” he said. “We have no aviation and artillery. We have only tank. And it’s the problem.”


CNN should be banned for peddling Putin's propaganda like this.
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I'm not sure you know what propaganda means.
 
DT12 said:
Russian trolls pretending to be commanders in Ukraine's 47th Mechanised Brigade speak to Russian propaganda outlet CNN:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/29/europe/ukraine-war-us-tanks-intl/index.html

"The Ukrainian crew expressed frustration the tanks were made for a NATO style of warfare, in which air power and artillery prepare the battlefield before tanks and infantry advance. Kyiv has long bemoaned its lack of artillery and air power.

“They would never do it,” Joker said, of NATO soldiers undertaking the same advances they make without air support. He switched to English to mimic a NATO soldier: “‘Call the aviation, call the artillery,’” he said. “We have no aviation and artillery. We have only tank. And it’s the problem.”


CNN should be banned for peddling Putin's propaganda like this.
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It's a well known issue and has been reported since the first Ukrainian soldiers arrived in NATO countries for training on their new tanks.
 
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