Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Yes, I think I do. I know, for example, that this war did not begin on February 24th 2022. I know that if you go to Victoria "F*ck the EU" Nuland's Wikipedia page (I don't know how to post images here), you will see that the 2nd picture on the right was taken on February 1st 2014...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

It shows her (the architect of Euromaidan) and John Kerry sitting opposite Petro Poroshenko, Arseniy Yatesenyuk and Vitaliy Klitschko (notice how the 3 Ukrainians have their heads dutifully bowed, not even any pens and paper in front of them, while their American handlers are giving them their orders). And then, almost 4 months later, by an absolutely startling coincidence, 'the Ukrainian people' "democratically elected" Petro Poroshenko to be their president, Arseniy Yatsenyuk to be their Prime Minister, and Vitali Klitschko to be the mayor of Kiev (amazing how often America perfectly predicts who is going to win 'free and fair elections' months in advance isn't it?).

I know that Poroshenko's successor (the West's new Winston Churchill) is a project of Ihor Kolomoiskiy (the founder and main sponsor of Azov Battalion). Someone asked me earlier in the thread why I always put the name 'Zelenskiy' in quotes when referring to policy. It's because he is nobody in this situation. He makes no decisions and has no input on anything that matters. His only 2 orders from his handlers in Washington and London are: 1) never, under any circumstances, and no matter how much pressure you find yourself under, remove your little green military T-shirt. And 2) never, we repeat NEVER, shave off your little beard. You are a warrior. You are a fighter. You are our new Action Man figure.

Oh yeah, and I know that the new paragon of Western values is as corrupt as they come:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...dent-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

So yeah, I know that this is not a fight between autocracy and democracy, it is an incredibly complex situation that gets reduced to "good v evil and that's all there is to it!" for a dumb mass audience whose reading ability extends no further than a tweet thread.

Further, I know that most of the people in this thread who are salivating at the thought of all these new lovely weapons coming to Ukraine are doing so not because they care about Ukraine but because this war is a video game to them. It's entertainment (on more than one occasion I've wanted to post the link to donate to Ukraine to see who puts their money where their mouth is). Their support of America's and the UK's strategy of "let the Ukrainians die as slowly as possible so as to weaken Russia as much as possible" is not out of concern for Ukrainians, it's out of concern for having more and more war to watch.

I know that the EU did not prepare for the possibility of this war dragging on the way that it has, and this is going to cost them a catastrophic amount. The EU was extremely bold and aggressive in their sanctions against Russia, believing (they directly stated this) that it would cripple the Russian economy and therefore the Russian war machine within 3 months. A minor timing issue with disastrous consequences. Now they are in a position where they cannot admit the sanctions are not working and so are just going to keep on driving over the cliff, with unelected morons (von der Leyen, Borrell, Michel et al) doing the driving. They'll be fine, they'll parachute out of it all in a couple of years and retire to their Swiss lakes, hell they may even hook up with Kolomoiyskiy and Zelenskiy while they're there. Russia never said this war would be over in days, weeks or months. They gave no timeline. It was THE WEST that gave timelines, based on famously and repeatedly bad analysis (remember when the same people predicted the Afghan army would hold off the Taliban for more than 6 days?). It is not Russia who miscalculated the timeline of this war, it is the West, which is why they are now crippling themselves economically. Their massive sanctions were based on the premise that it would be over by now. They did not foresee Ukraine needing 10 billion dollars a month (and rising) only to stay afloat.

Finally, I know that for every post you can find from Ukrainians who are not actually fighting the war saying that they have all the people and 'will' needed to fight if only they get WEAPONS WEAPONS WEAPONS!, you can find a hundred more from Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 who are desperate for 'Zelenskiy' to lift the ban on their fleeing the country (if Ukrainians are so ready and willing to die for the West's freedom, why have all Ukrainian men been forbidden from leaving the country since February 25th?). Last week 'Zelenskiy' told Poland to send back any men aged 18 to 60 who fled as refugees by June 27th. His plan is to put guns in their hands and send them to "die for the world's freedom".

Those are the things I know. What I believe (but naturally don't know) is that Ukraine can't win this war. Everyone (Johnson mainly) who says they can refuses to define 'win' in this context. Pushing Russia out of Donbas and/or Crimea? It will never happen, and they know it. "Destroying the Russian army" as Kasparov said in that tweet posted yesterday? Idiotic. Ukraine's fully mobilised army is being decimated by Russia's peacetime army. I also believe that Putin has no intention of invading any other country. He explicitly stated his aims in his speech before the invasion. "If we cede territory to Putin now, he will come for Poland next!" is absolutely divorced from any kind of understanding of WHY Putin invaded Ukraine in the first place ("Because he hates democracy!" - idiotic understanding of this war).

Zelenskiy''s handlers in DC and London need to send him to the negotiating table now. Otherwise, all that will happen from here on is more dead Ukrainians, more dead 'orcs', more of an economically crippled EU, more Boris Johnson pretending to care about Ukrainians (he doesn't, he needs a geopolitical friend because he has none), and more of the West stupidly pushing one stated rival (Russia) further and further into the arms of their other stated rival (China).

I've said my piece. Back to the tweets of what weapons are being sent alongside salivating emojis. But before I go, here is the link to donate to Ukrainians:

https://donate.unhcr.org/int/en/ukraine-emergency

Frankly I don't know how anyone can spend a week sunning themselves on a Greek island when Ukrainians are dying for your freedom. That money could have helped so many Ukrainians.
Lsdffsdfsdmao whoever just brought this post on - thank you! That's comedy gold, guess his money from Moscow just came over.
 
Do you get joy out of this? Does it make you happy to see Russia terrorizing its neighbour? Never mind that the post you quoted is hardly brilliant.
Some people have gone so far down the "russia is really strong, they'll eventually win" path, that their need to be right about it tramples all the rest.
 
Do you get joy out of this? Does it make you happy to see Russia terrorizing its neighbour? Never mind that the post you quoted is hardly brilliant.

This is such a bizarre post, I don't know if it merits a serious response.

@DT12 does add much needed perspective on this thread, and I'm just pointing that out.
 
There is for sure many politicians who would sell their soul for oil money, but giving up on Nato would be something else. The reason why the republicans are hindering aid for Ukraine is because their base approves of opposing whatever the dems do.

Trumps pee tapes are definitely real so there is that.

There is going be a book about this at some point with the title "When pee tapes changed the world."

Trump already menaced to quit NATO when he was president.
 
Wouldn't Trump need Congress to to exit NATO?

Though, with how spineless congressional republicans are, they might go along with it if dear leader says so.
 
This is such a bizarre post, I don't know if it merits a serious response.

@DT12 does add much needed perspective on this thread, and I'm just pointing that out.
It's not a perspective, it's literally the points that Russian propaganda translates (internally and to the outside world) almost word by word. Points that have been debunked myriad times.
 
Wouldn't Trump need Congress to to exit NATO?

Though, with how spineless congressional republicans are, they might go along with it if dear leader says so.

Yes...so it would depend on an eventual win of trumo and a +50% congress. Not unlikely. He had that already
 
Yes...so it would depend on an eventual win of trumo and a +50% congress. Not unlikely. He had that already

Doesn't help that Romney, one of the few who stood up to MAGA, is retiring.

Probably gonna get replaced by another Yes-man.

Would it need 50 or 60 votes?
 
Doesn't help that Romney, one of the few who stood up to MAGA, is retiring.

That's the fate of everyone who stood up to MAGA. They were either primaried, or they retired because they knew they were going to get primaried. Some might have slipped through the cracks, but the GOP is well and truly the party of Trump now. And last time showed that a loss is just going to make them even more Trumpy.

I'm not sure I see a way out of Trumpism for them either, after they rejected the best chance they're ever going get in the immediate wake of Trump losing as an incumbent and then Jan 6th. I genuinely thought that was the end of Trump, but the pathetic weasels who initially made moves against him (like Lindsey Graham, the old feck) then pathetically weaseled their way back in immediately after.
 
This is such a bizarre post, I don't know if it merits a serious response.

@DT12 does add much needed perspective on this thread, and I'm just pointing that out.
No one worth taking seriously pretends that Ukraine is a bastion of corruption-free utopia. But it's also not really relevant. Because Ukraine has corruption issues, it's fine for Putin to invade? Is that the argument here? Ukraine sucks, so let's throw it to Putin? Putin, one of the biggest international crooks out there, turning Russia more and more totalitarian? Besides, Kolomoisky has been arrested. The "much needed" perspective by @DT12 left that part out.

I'll sympathize with the argument that it's not about autocracy vs democracy. I don't particularly concern myself with arguments like that. For gods sake, Saudi Arabia is a regional ally of the US. But what are we arguing here? That supporting Ukraine is wrong? Or that politicians come out with empty rhetoric? His "much needed" perspective also conveniently leaves out all of Russia's meddling as described in this piece, which has English subs:




@DT12 also argues that the West is crippling itself economically. How is that the case? US economy is booming. European countries are doing reasonably fine. They're hardly "crippling" themselves. The results of sanctions have been underwhelming thus far but that in itself is not an argument that the West is crippling itself.

He then makes the argument that Ukraine's fully mobilized army is being decimated by Russia's peacetime army. How's that the case? How does he define being decimated? Both countries are suffering immense casualties. Russia has suffered so many casualties that they themselves have had to mobilize as well.

That doesn't mean all of his post is bad. He makes certain points that I myself agree with:
  • I don't think Ukraine will be able to push the Russians out of Donbas and Crimea militarily. I agree with him on this. I'm more inclined to think that Ukraine's best hope is making the war so costly for Putin that he has to retreat. But this can take years. Just like the Soviet-Afghan war took 9 years before the Soviets eventually left.
  • I also agree with him that Putin won't invade a NATO country.
And generally I agree with the overarching point that some people are way too dismissive of bad news. Not all is fine, and Ukraine intensely needs support to keep fighting. But this is hardly a profound insight.
 
That's the fate of everyone who stood up to MAGA. They were either primaried, or they retired because they knew they were going to get primaried. Some might have slipped through the cracks, but the GOP is well and truly the party of Trump now. And last time showed that a loss is just going to make them even more Trumpy.

I'm not sure I see a way out of Trumpism for them either, after they rejected the best chance they're ever going get in the immediate wake of Trump losing as an incumbent and then Jan 6th. I genuinely thought that was the end of Trump, but the pathetic weasels who initially made moves against him (like Lindsey Graham, the old feck) then pathetically weaseled their way back in immediately after.

Considering whenever Trump, or Trump-candidates loses, the base just rejects reality and substitute their own, claiming fraud and whatever else, I don't think there is any way out of it either.

They genuinely think Trump is super awesome, and that he is popular with the general public too.

Trumpism only ends when Trump dies, even if he loses in November, they will not abandon him.
 
It's not a perspective, it's literally the points that Russian propaganda translates (internally and to the outside world) almost word by word. Points that have been debunked myriad times.
Yeah but what would you know about russian propaganda?
 
Doesn't help that Romney, one of the few who stood up to MAGA, is retiring.

Probably gonna get replaced by another Yes-man.

Would it need 50 or 60 votes?

I googled it and as far as i read, 50% of congress OR 2/3rds of senate
 
Lsdffsdfsdmao whoever just brought this post on - thank you! That's comedy gold, guess his money from Moscow just came over.
Love the part about believing Putin wont invade any other country after Ukraine because he said so.
 
Kasparov said this as far back as 2015 on the invasion back then.



Im a fan of his. Its just, it would escalate to a far more dangerous situation than it was or is for the countries not directly involved. When push comes to shove nobody is looking at any other than Nato countries because banana republics certainly isnt who you look to for military help.


Nearly every argument except the inconvenient reality of nukes being involved in Russia/Ukraine, which wasn't a consideration for NATO and Kosovo.
 
Gary, the king of chess. It was easy to bomb Yugoslavia for situation in Kosovo that was nowhere near as deadly as what is happening in Israel for example. Just look at official civilian deaths in Kosovo war vs civilian deaths in Gaza since October 7th. People are still dying of cancer because of depleted uranium used in NATO ammunition. Why not bomb Israel, give Palestine independence and install a large NATO base in Palestine ? I know… whataboutism. :(

As far Russia goes… Those feckers can fight back so it is difficult to discipline them into democracy.
 
CfNlDes.png
 
I wonder what's Kolomoisky is up to... arresting yourself by the hands of your own "project" is a proper 3-d chess move.
He knew that brilliant Redcafe posters were onto him and needed to create a diversion.
 
Kasparov said this as far back as 2015 on the invasion back then.



Im a fan of his. Its just, it would escalate to a far more dangerous situation than it was or is for the countries not directly involved. When push comes to shove nobody is looking at any other than Nato countries because banana republics certainly isnt who you look to for military help.

Intervention in Kosovo made sense and needed to be done, situation is a bit different in Ukraine though.

Moldova 'next victim' in West’s hybrid war against Russia — Lavrov - Russian Politics & Diplomacy - TASS

Just seen this although its from November. Lavrov making ground for the next invasion.
Although, didnt Putin say he wont invade any other country after Ukraine.. :confused:
 
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/03/politics/senate-immigration-negotiations-congress/index.html

The big take-away :

In interviews with CNN, a wide-range of House Republicans said that they would only accept a border deal that resembles the hardline immigration bill that passed their chamber last year – known as HR 2 – even though Senate Democrats and the White House strongly oppose that plan and call it a non-starter.

And some Republicans were even more direct, suggesting that any deal should be rejected if it could bolster President Joe Biden’s standing ahead of November.

“Let me tell you, I’m not willing to do too damn much right now to help a Democrat and to help Joe Biden’s approval rating,” Rep. Troy Nehls, a Texas Republican, told CNN. “I will not help the Democrats try to improve this man’s dismal approval ratings. I’m not going to do it. Why would I? Chuck Schumer has had HR 2 on his desk since July. And he did nothing with it.”



There you have it, they are just blatantly admitting that they will pass exactly nothing, no matter what the circumstances, all to make Biden look bad.
 
There you have it, they are just blatantly admitting that they will pass exactly nothing, no matter what the circumstances, all to make Biden look bad.

"Gentlemen, an immovable Parliament is more obnoxious than an immovable king! You are drunkards, tricksters, villains, whoremasters, godless, self-seeking, ambitious tricksters. You are no more capable of conducting the affairs of this nation than you are of running a brothel!"

That's how I feel about Congress right now, especially when Republicans control the House.
 
"Gentlemen, an immovable Parliament is more obnoxious than an immovable king! You are drunkards, tricksters, villains, whoremasters, godless, self-seeking, ambitious tricksters. You are no more capable of conducting the affairs of this nation than you are of running a brothel!"

That's how I feel about Congress right now, especially when Republicans control the House.

Rest of NATO has to step up, but i doubt that they will, a dark year ahead for Ukraine.
 
Rest of NATO has to step up, but i doubt that they will, a dark year ahead for Ukraine.

I think there is also a need to include a couple of big players from the Far East as well. South Korea already supplies Poland with brand new tanks while Japan already ended the arms exports ban around a decade ago (Japan CAN sell weapons and they already do by selling homemade Patriot missiles to the US). Those Asian players should see this as a solid testing ground for their own hardware as well.
 

Where is the promised strong response from the White House? I remember them warning NK against supplying Russia with ammo/ missiles. What a weak and pathetic administration with non-functional congress, the remaining credibility of US is being embarrassed and shattered on the worldwide stage.
 
Obviously we may never know the truth of what happened in these early discussions but anyway, WSJ wrote an article. It seems the discovery of Bucha was a major turning point.

In the Kremlin, Putin was certain that Washington, rather than London, had forced Zelensky to abandon talks in the hope of exhausting Russia in a protracted war. Senior Russian officials kept angrily raising this point in meetings with their American counterparts. “Utter bulls—t,” a senior Biden administration official told me. “I know for a fact the United States didn’t pull the plug on that. We were watching it carefully.”

 
Obviously we may never know the truth of what happened in these early discussions but anyway, WSJ wrote an article. It seems the discovery of Bucha was a major turning point.





I don't think there's really been anything to even remotely suggest Ukraine has ever been open to a peace deal. His wording there even... "Ukraine blew its best chance for peace"... As if Ukraine would ever want "peace" under occupation.

Usual wsj pro-russian clickbait bull.
 
I don't think there's really been anything to even remotely suggest Ukraine has ever been open to a peace deal. His wording there even... "Ukraine blew its best chance for peace"... As if Ukraine would ever want "peace" under occupation.

Usual wsj pro-russian clickbait bull.
Yaroslav Trofimov is hardly pro-Russian. But you do you.
 
Nepal halts work permits for Russia, Ukraine after soldiers killed

ATHMANDU, Jan 5 (Reuters) - Nepal has stopped issuing permits to its citizens to work in Russia and Ukraine until further notice, an official said on Friday, after at least 10 Nepali soldiers were killed while serving in the Russian army.

Nepal has asked Russia not to recruit its citizens in the Russian army and to immediately send all Nepali soldiers back to the Himalayan nation and compensate the families of those killed.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...sia-ukraine-after-soldiers-killed-2024-01-05/
 
Yaroslav Trofimov is hardly pro-Russian. But you do you.

Don't know or care who he is and wouldn't waste my time reading the article, just observing that's a pro-russian statement he's making. All too common from the wsj.

In fairness, he's saying republicans (and putin) are making that statement, i dunno if he's trying to insinuate there's some truth in it.
 
Last edited:
Don't know or care who he is and wouldn't waste my time reading the article, just observing that's a pro-russian statement he's making. All too common from the wsj.
You are aware that he quotes the opinion of pro-Russian politicians, not his own, in that tweet?
 
You are aware that he quotes the opinion of pro-Russian politicians, not his own, in that tweet?

Its a fairly common occurrence to dismiss the contents of an article without reading it if its published by a author they dislike or a newspaper that falls on wrong side of their political spectrum. I do it myself sometimes, but not doing it its great way not to be stuck in an echo chamber.