Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

NATO never really cared about Ukraine, just using them to bleed Russia dry, all there is to it.
Yep, this. If a million Ukrainians were to die killing 100,000 Russians then the likes of Lindsey "This War Is The Best Money We've Ever Spent" Graham and Mitch "I Can See Absolutely No Down Side To This War For Us" McConnell would consider it a perfect win, regardless of the actual outcome of the conflict. Ukraine wasn't, isn't and - as it stands - never will be a vital strategic interest for the US (see the Obama Doctrine on Ukraine as one argument for why not) and all the Biden gibberish in the world about how Western democracy itself is at stake if Ukraine falls is precisely that - gibberish. If the West genuinely believed that its own vital security interests hinged upon the outcome of this war they wouldn't be letting an undermanned and willfully under-resourced Ukraine fight it for them ("Olaf Scholz directly told me just after the invasion that the best thing that could happen would be for Ukraine to lose as quickly as possible" - Boris Johnson. Not exactly the words of a man who fears the end of Western democracy if 'Putin wins', is it?) In fact it would be a massive dereliction of duty to allocate the defence of American and European national security - as Biden keeps characterising it - to an exhausted and functionally bankrupt country that is now reduced to looking for ways to conscript young men who fled the country last year while literally having to beg their 'allies' not to withdraw the funding needed to arm and train them.

The fact is nobody of any importance in the West will care when Ukraine loses EXCEPT insofar as it'll be an embarrassing defeat (yet another one) for an alliance that vowed over and over again to support Ukraine "for as long as it takes" for them to achieve victory. They're already shifting the narrative yet again from the imbecilic "Global freedom is at stake" to "What will Taiwan think if we abandon Ukraine now??" (Taiwan, unlike Ukraine, IS a vital US national security interest). 22 months into the war I'd hoped the fatuous bullshit would have stopped by now, but it hasn't, the same dumb narrative is still being peddled about Putin's intentions and the consequences of Ukraine's (inevitable in my opinion) defeat. All the likes of Sullivan, Blinken, Biden, Austin and Kirby can do at this point is double down on it, because they're utterly out of ideas. Putin's badly-planned invasion was seen as a golden opportunity for America/the West in March 2022 but it's become a disaster for them now that Russia has more or less got its act together, and it's painfully clear to everyone - including in Ukraine - that Biden and Sullivan have absolutely no strategy for where to go from here. They've used Ukraine to bleed Russia and that's as far as their plan ever went.
 
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The Kremlin is moaning like a bunch of unpaid prostitutes because missiles hit Belgorod, killing 21 or so.



Did they really expect that Ukraine would not hit across the border after what happened several times before and then yesterday? Welcome to the very grim reality of a war that you started, Putin. #FAFO.
 
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Interesting. I wondered how differently this attack would be perceived.
 
You know it has to be really so bad by Russia if the Japanese ambassador at the UN is basically telling them to get fecked at the UN Security Council.
What's so special about that? De jure both are still at war and claim the southernmost Kuril islands. It's not like Japan and Russia have been friends at any point in history.
 
What's so special about that? De jure both are still at war and claim the southernmost Kuril islands. It's not like Japan and Russia have been friends at any point in history.

It's still an illegal occupation to this day too. Putin was blowing hot air when Shinzo Abe was alive, but the Japanese never fell for whatever bullshit Bald Vlad was proposing.

I would support a Japanese re-taking of those islands by force on the very first opportunity.
 
The Kremlin is moaning like a bunch of unpaid prostitutes because missiles hit Belgorod, killing 21 or so.



Did they really expect that Ukraine would not hit across the border after what happened several times before and then yesterday? Welcome to the very grim reality of a war that you started, Putin. #FAFO.


Of course they know such retaliation is possible, these people do not give a feck about such casualties in provincial regions. This complaining is all just part of the charade that is the foreign policy approach of Putin's government, surely everyone knows this by now?
 
In response to Russia trying to call another UN security meeting over alleged use of Czech weapons by Ukraine.

 
The Kremlin is moaning like a bunch of unpaid prostitutes because missiles hit Belgorod, killing 21 or so.



Did they really expect that Ukraine would not hit across the border after what happened several times before and then yesterday? Welcome to the very grim reality of a war that you started, Putin. #FAFO.

Reading that is so funny,. They want an Emergency meeting 2 days after they hit Ukraine with about 1000 missiles or so.
Oh but they only hit military targets dont you know or evil Ukrainians are holding AAF in residential buildings, how sneaky from them.
 
Only after the Russian missiles will start raining down on European capitals maybe people will wake the feck up. Putin is openly at war with European democratic order but the governments still refuse to act accordingly.
 
Only after the Russian missiles will start raining down on European capitals maybe people will wake the feck up. Putin is openly at war with European democratic order but the governments still refuse to act accordingly.
But that's not going to happen. So here we are.
 
But that's not going to happen. So here we are.
Oh it will, in a few years if the trend continues. I give you a very simple scenario: Russia will test Nato 5 article on its eastern flank once Trump gets US out of NATO if he gets into power again, and then most of European countries by default get into a war with Russia with cities being subject to missile strikes.
 
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Oh it will, in a few years if the trend continues.

No attacking a poor country in Ukraine, which has already incurred very heavy losses on the Russian military is something else than attacking countries which are part of the most powerful military alliance in history.
 
There were a lot of people who were convinced last year Russia definitely wont attack Ukraine but here we are.
 
No attacking a poor country in Ukraine, which has already incurred very heavy losses on the Russian military is something else than attacking countries which are part of the most powerful military alliance in history.
Not if it undermines it (NATO/EU) from within via propaganda machine and corrupt right wing parties / officials which will dominate European politics in the next few years. Also, NATO without US backing is not all that at the moment, barely able to supply anything in good quantity currently. The industrial military complex is on its knees in Europe.
 
Not if it undermines it (NATO/EU) from within via propaganda machine and corrupt right wing parties / officials which will dominate European politics in the next few years. Also, NATO without US backing is not all that at the moment, barely able to supply anything in good quantity currently. The industrial military complex is on its knees in Europe.

If Russia start launching rockets at european capitals without going total war I'll buy you pint. Or send you a tenner anyway.
 
If Russia start launching rockets at european capitals without going total war I'll buy you pint. Or send you a tenner anyway.
Oh, Russia will be preparing the next 5-10 years for a total war, they have already switched to a war economy and as history shows it’s not something you can reverse on a start-stop basis, they’re already building up and preparing for another war as they believe they’re at a war with the western world order.

 
Oh, Russia will be preparing the next 5-10 years for a total war, they have already switched to a war economy and as history shows it’s not something you can reverse on a start-stop basis, they’re already building up and preparing for another war as they believe they’re at a war with the western world order.



Yeah Russia is going in to wartime economy because they are actually at war and failed all their main objectives and have taken a proper beating from a far inferior foe. I honestly don't think Kasparov is all that lucid, he's itching for nuclear powers at peace to into direct confrontation with another nuclear power something everyone is grateful was avoided during the cold war.
 
Yeah Russia is going in to wartime economy because they are actually at war and failed all their main objectives and have taken a proper beating from a far inferior foe. I honestly don't think Kasparov is all that lucid, he's itching for nuclear powers at peace to into direct confrontation with another nuclear power something everyone is grateful was avoided during the cold war.
Apart from getting everything right when it comes to Russia well in advance? How can you say that with zero arguments to back it up? He’s also not suggesting to get into direct confrontation right now, just supply Ukraine with everything to stop this today. Seems like you’re actually missing the whole point that direct confrontation is in fact gonna come if Russia receives no pushback.
 
Apart from getting everything right when it comes to Russia well in advance? How can you say that with zero arguments to back it up? He’s also not suggesting to get into direct confrontation right now, just supply Ukraine with everything to stop this today. Seems like you’re actually missing the whole point that direct confrontation is in fact gonna come if Russia receives no pushback.

I think he's entirely correct that Ukraine should be armed to win the war, i still mantain that the main reason Nato countries have no reason to fear invasion is Nato and little else.

Kasparov stated that Putin started WW3 decades ago. Decades later still no ww3. But it could become one if nuclear powers started going to war vs each other.
 
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Kasparov said this as far back as 2015 on the invasion back then.



Im a fan of his. Its just, it would escalate to a far more dangerous situation than it was or is for the countries not directly involved. When push comes to shove nobody is looking at any other than Nato countries because banana republics certainly isnt who you look to for military help.
 
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Kasparov said this as far back as 2015 on the invasion back then.



Im a fan of his. Its just, it would escalate to a far more dangerous situation than it was or is for the countries not directly involved. When push comes to shove nobody is looking at any other than Nato countries because banana republics certainly isnt who look to for military help.
This is exactly the line Putin is taking and how he perceives the west - weak. Next it will be NATO country and he bets on precisely this sentiment again, what will change fundamentally if it will be Helsinki or Tallinn as opposed to Kyiv or Lviv? He bets that in order to avoid direct confrontation the west will deter itself again and will allow him to do another land grab.
 
You don't just do a land grab. You'll have to fight the local population and/or occupy them, and this will increase the pressure on Russia's economy. War is costly. Ukraine is already too big a hurdle for the Russians as of this moment.
As of this moment, but with no huge external military and financial support, this could go south very quickly and the scenario I contemplated will become a real possibility in the near future while European democracies will be in disarray after decades long propaganda and corruption schemes will yield the results the Kremlin wants. In a few years it will be Le Pen in France, you already have multiple Kremlin friendly mostly right wingers in Slovakia and Hungary, Trump in US, etc.
 
This is exactly the line Putin is taking and how he perceives the west - weak. Next it will be NATO country and he bets on precisely this sentiment again, what will change fundamentally if it will be Helsinki or Tallinn as opposed to Kyiv or Lviv? He bets that in order to avoid direct confrontation the west will deter itself again and will allow him to do another land grab.

I simply dont know how to have a conversation with someone who thinks that Nato is a mute point. If that alliance isnt honored it falls apart. I dont think in any real scenario that will happen. You seem to do. Ill revisit when Russia invades a Nato member.
 
I simply dont know how to have a conversation with someone who thinks that Nato is a mute point. If that alliance isnt honored it falls apart. I dont think in any real scenario that will happen. You seem to do. Ill revisit when Russia invades a Nato member.
I also don't believe it will happen, but to be honest most were saying there was no chance putin would attack ukraine. Now we have lavrov saying moldova might be next. History tells us some leaders are very rational until the day they aren't and everything goes to shit.

Also a lot of people seem to think there's no chance trump will win. If he does, it might be the end of "normal" america in terms of geopolitics. Will trump give two shits about latvia or taiwan?
 
I simply dont know how to have a conversation with someone who thinks that Nato is a mute point. If that alliance isnt honored it falls apart. I dont think in any real scenario that will happen. You seem to do. Ill revisit when Russia invades a Nato member.
NATO is strong now as a unit, but we’re just a few steps away from it being a mute point as you call it due to the amount of Kremlin friendly politicians being on the rise now in US/Europe.
 
Also a lot of people seem to think there's no chance trump will win. If he does, it might be the end of "normal" america in terms of geopolitics. Will trump give two shits about latvia or taiwan?

"A lot of people" also think that Trump has no chance in hell of a victory over Hillary Clinton back in 2016. Same as "a lot of people" didn't think UK would vote for Brexit.All it takes is assumptions and complacency and history moves in a wild direction.
 
I also don't believe it will happen, but to be honest most were saying there was no chance putin would attack ukraine. Now we have lavrov saying moldova might be next. History tells us some leaders are very rational until the day they aren't and everything goes to shit.

Also a lot of people seem to think there's no chance trump will win. If he does, it might be the end of "normal" america in terms of geopolitics. Will trump give two shits about latvia or taiwan?

Ukraine had been preparing for this moment ever since Crimea. I remember a friend of my mine with a Moldovan girlfriend saying "So that gangster Putin is planning on invading Ukraine" after listening to some radio. 4 months in advance. But yeah i do agree that in this weirdo surreal reality we have with Trump and the US it might feck things up. I dont think he cares about Taiwan or latvia. He doesnt care for anyone but himself. However to have a historical alliance broken by that feckwit could happen but i hope not.
 
NATO is strong now as a unit, but we’re just a few steps away from it being a mute point as you call it due to the amount of Kremlin friendly politicians being on the rise now in US/Europe.

There is for sure many politicians who would sell their soul for oil money, but giving up on Nato would be something else. The reason why the republicans are hindering aid for Ukraine is because their base approves of opposing whatever the dems do.

Trumps pee tapes are definitely real so there is that.

There is going be a book about this at some point with the title "When pee tapes changed the world."
 
This is exactly the line Putin is taking and how he perceives the west - weak. Next it will be NATO country and he bets on precisely this sentiment again, what will change fundamentally if it will be Helsinki or Tallinn as opposed to Kyiv or Lviv? He bets that in order to avoid direct confrontation the west will deter itself again and will allow him to do another land grab.

Tbf there's no fecking way on earth he should attack Helsinki, the Finns don't play. Estonia would be more believable.
 
Only after the Russian missiles will start raining down on European capitals maybe people will wake the feck up. Putin is openly at war with European democratic order but the governments still refuse to act accordingly.
Nah.

Let go off that drum.
 
Yes, I think I do. I know, for example, that this war did not begin on February 24th 2022. I know that if you go to Victoria "F*ck the EU" Nuland's Wikipedia page (I don't know how to post images here), you will see that the 2nd picture on the right was taken on February 1st 2014...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

It shows her (the architect of Euromaidan) and John Kerry sitting opposite Petro Poroshenko, Arseniy Yatesenyuk and Vitaliy Klitschko (notice how the 3 Ukrainians have their heads dutifully bowed, not even any pens and paper in front of them, while their American handlers are giving them their orders). And then, almost 4 months later, by an absolutely startling coincidence, 'the Ukrainian people' "democratically elected" Petro Poroshenko to be their president, Arseniy Yatsenyuk to be their Prime Minister, and Vitali Klitschko to be the mayor of Kiev (amazing how often America perfectly predicts who is going to win 'free and fair elections' months in advance isn't it?).

I know that Poroshenko's successor (the West's new Winston Churchill) is a project of Ihor Kolomoiskiy (the founder and main sponsor of Azov Battalion). Someone asked me earlier in the thread why I always put the name 'Zelenskiy' in quotes when referring to policy. It's because he is nobody in this situation. He makes no decisions and has no input on anything that matters. His only 2 orders from his handlers in Washington and London are: 1) never, under any circumstances, and no matter how much pressure you find yourself under, remove your little green military T-shirt. And 2) never, we repeat NEVER, shave off your little beard. You are a warrior. You are a fighter. You are our new Action Man figure.

Oh yeah, and I know that the new paragon of Western values is as corrupt as they come:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...dent-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

So yeah, I know that this is not a fight between autocracy and democracy, it is an incredibly complex situation that gets reduced to "good v evil and that's all there is to it!" for a dumb mass audience whose reading ability extends no further than a tweet thread.

Further, I know that most of the people in this thread who are salivating at the thought of all these new lovely weapons coming to Ukraine are doing so not because they care about Ukraine but because this war is a video game to them. It's entertainment (on more than one occasion I've wanted to post the link to donate to Ukraine to see who puts their money where their mouth is). Their support of America's and the UK's strategy of "let the Ukrainians die as slowly as possible so as to weaken Russia as much as possible" is not out of concern for Ukrainians, it's out of concern for having more and more war to watch.

I know that the EU did not prepare for the possibility of this war dragging on the way that it has, and this is going to cost them a catastrophic amount. The EU was extremely bold and aggressive in their sanctions against Russia, believing (they directly stated this) that it would cripple the Russian economy and therefore the Russian war machine within 3 months. A minor timing issue with disastrous consequences. Now they are in a position where they cannot admit the sanctions are not working and so are just going to keep on driving over the cliff, with unelected morons (von der Leyen, Borrell, Michel et al) doing the driving. They'll be fine, they'll parachute out of it all in a couple of years and retire to their Swiss lakes, hell they may even hook up with Kolomoiyskiy and Zelenskiy while they're there. Russia never said this war would be over in days, weeks or months. They gave no timeline. It was THE WEST that gave timelines, based on famously and repeatedly bad analysis (remember when the same people predicted the Afghan army would hold off the Taliban for more than 6 days?). It is not Russia who miscalculated the timeline of this war, it is the West, which is why they are now crippling themselves economically. Their massive sanctions were based on the premise that it would be over by now. They did not foresee Ukraine needing 10 billion dollars a month (and rising) only to stay afloat.

Finally, I know that for every post you can find from Ukrainians who are not actually fighting the war saying that they have all the people and 'will' needed to fight if only they get WEAPONS WEAPONS WEAPONS!, you can find a hundred more from Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 who are desperate for 'Zelenskiy' to lift the ban on their fleeing the country (if Ukrainians are so ready and willing to die for the West's freedom, why have all Ukrainian men been forbidden from leaving the country since February 25th?). Last week 'Zelenskiy' told Poland to send back any men aged 18 to 60 who fled as refugees by June 27th. His plan is to put guns in their hands and send them to "die for the world's freedom".

Those are the things I know. What I believe (but naturally don't know) is that Ukraine can't win this war. Everyone (Johnson mainly) who says they can refuses to define 'win' in this context. Pushing Russia out of Donbas and/or Crimea? It will never happen, and they know it. "Destroying the Russian army" as Kasparov said in that tweet posted yesterday? Idiotic. Ukraine's fully mobilised army is being decimated by Russia's peacetime army. I also believe that Putin has no intention of invading any other country. He explicitly stated his aims in his speech before the invasion. "If we cede territory to Putin now, he will come for Poland next!" is absolutely divorced from any kind of understanding of WHY Putin invaded Ukraine in the first place ("Because he hates democracy!" - idiotic understanding of this war).

Zelenskiy''s handlers in DC and London need to send him to the negotiating table now. Otherwise, all that will happen from here on is more dead Ukrainians, more dead 'orcs', more of an economically crippled EU, more Boris Johnson pretending to care about Ukrainians (he doesn't, he needs a geopolitical friend because he has none), and more of the West stupidly pushing one stated rival (Russia) further and further into the arms of their other stated rival (China).

I've said my piece. Back to the tweets of what weapons are being sent alongside salivating emojis. But before I go, here is the link to donate to Ukrainians:

https://donate.unhcr.org/int/en/ukraine-emergency

Frankly I don't know how anyone can spend a week sunning themselves on a Greek island when Ukrainians are dying for your freedom. That money could have helped so many Ukrainians.

Brilliant post - pretty much spot on.