Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

History has shown that the US retreating into isolationism does not end well for Europe, and eventually comes back to impact the US.
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

That was a democratic process. :) And media “consolidation” was a democratic process. Forcefully banning Russian language in Donbas region was also democratic. Attack against Ukrainian Orthodox Church was also democracy in action. Democracy is attacked and it should be defended !
 
Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet

He wasn't in a position to do it in the 2000s as Russia was still reeling from the 90s. The moment he got in position to strike, he did. And people rather naively question why NATO is still around when authoritarian Russia and the infrastructure of nukes and expansionism never went away.
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

Consider the ramifications if the US has to put boots on the ground in Europe. Funding Ukraine is therefore one of the greatest investments in the history of the United States - not a drop of US blood spilled to fight a totalitarian adversary.

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

You're conflating promoting democracy and human rights in dictatorships with Putin attempting to invade and steal the land of a neighboring country.
 
Based on what exactly? Putin has been in power for 20+ years, they would have attacked Europe a hundred times by now if your assertion is even remotely accurate.
Based on Putin, we want's the old Soviet Union back
 
Putin has been busy conducting asymmetric operations against Europe for a long time, including assassinating and attempting to assassinate British citizens.

Russian interference from 2004-17

RussiaMap.gif
 
I think republicans will grant the aid eventually, they must be under massive pressure from the US arms industry lobby to keep the money, and the bribes, flowing. They won't do the right thing because it's the right thing but because they profit from it.
 
I hear Soc Security and Medicare are projected to be insolvent in less than a decade - perhaps an end to the perpetual war machine and US playing international cop might not be such a terrible idea?

As for your other point, every country - ours included - tries to influence elections and governments of other countries, that’s not particularly newsworthy. Didn’t we overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 which made Mr. Putin very angry?

:)

Putin tried to assassinate by poisoning the guy running against his candidate the first time, so there is influencing elections and influencing elections.

He also funded bribed and then pushed into going against Ukraine's population's will, to the point they threw him out is other way of saying "we" overthrew him.

Putin started this whole shit show by making the biggest mistake of his life and he has been doubling down on it ever since.
 
Russian interference from 2004-17

RussiaMap.gif
You see how those blue countries are so close to Russia? That’s a provocation. No wonder Russia is striking back.

I sometimes wonder how long it will take to get a clear picture of how big Russias influence on the rise of the far right and so on has been. The more I read, the more I feel that what they did through the last decades, has caused or at least furthered a political development that will continue to cause problems in many years to come. The damage done by Russia must be enormous.
 
You see how those blue countries are so close to Russia? That’s a provocation. No wonder Russia is striking back.

I sometimes wonder how long it will take to get a clear picture of how big Russias influence on the rise of the far right and so on has been. The more I read, the more I feel that what they did through the last decades, has caused or at least furthered a political development that will continue to cause problems in many years to come. The damage done by Russia must be enormous.
They're doing what the western powers have been doing for centuries and still do. You only have to take a map and see the long list of the worldwide western (and russian) meddlings since the end of WWII to have a small taste. Really not condoning it, but let's not give into this faux outrage or pretend to be any better. You just don't like to be on the receiving end, which is perfectly understandable.
 
They're doing what the western powers have been doing for centuries and still do. You only have to take a map and see the long list of the worldwide western (and russian) meddlings since the end of WWII to have a small taste. Really not condoning it, but let's not give into this faux outrage or pretend to be any better. You just don't like to be on the receiving end, which is perfectly understandable.
Thanks. I was completely unaware of any global history.
 
Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet
To be fair we had russian officials saying moldova might be next.
 
Theoretically, someone with ambitions for a bigger piece of Europe wouldn’t have waited 20+ years to act on those ambitions. Just saying.

Putin bad and all that, but let’s not feed on the domino theory just yet

That sounds astonishingly close to what they said about Hitler in the 30’s.

 
:)

Putin tried to assassinate by poisoning the guy running against his candidate the first time, so there is influencing elections and influencing elections.

He also funded bribed and then pushed into going against Ukraine's population's will, to the point they threw him out is other way of saying "we" overthrew him.

Putin started this whole shit show by making the biggest mistake of his life and he has been doubling down on it ever since.

There are influences and there are straight coup d'état like in chile and argentina among others. So please, spare me on the level of influences on elections and governments from the US. US is the country that assassinated other countries leaders and provoked more coups and wars in the XXth and XXIst for regime change by far
 
“Several weeks later, following his tour through Africa, Prigozhin was waiting at a Moscow airport while safety inspectors finished a check on the plane. It was during this delay that a small bomb was placed under the wing, said Western intel officials.”

 
Piece on the ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine.

Unlike in almost all other parts of Ukraine, many people here feel little connection to the war raging in the east of the country. “This is not our war,” agreed János and Béla, two sturdy men in their 60s, as they saw away shots of pálinka moonshine one recent evening in the house where Béla has lived his whole life. It is a phrase that comes up again and again in Zakarpattia.

One villager said he admired Orbán and Vladimir Putin, whom he considered as a “real man” standing up against the “gay and transgender lobby” in the west, a frequent claim in Hungarian and Russian state media. He said Volodymyr Zelenskiy was “a clown”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ight-as-orban-threatens-to-block-eu-accession
 
Prof. Timothy Snyder did an amazing job!

Timothy Snyder, along with four professors from the world's leading universities, has raised $950,000 for the Safe Skies air target detection system. The funds cover the cost of 2500 sensors and will help protect Sumy, Odesa, Mykolaiv, and Kherson oblasts from drones and missiles. The Yale University professor continues the fundraiser, with a second goal of another $950,000.

https://u24.gov.ua/news/safeskiessensorsystem
 
Putin Quietly Signals He Is Open to a Cease-Fire in Ukraine
Despite its bravado in public, the Kremlin has indicated its interest in striking a deal to halt the war — so long as it could still declare victory.


Mr. Putin has been signaling through intermediaries since at least September that he is open to a cease-fire that freezes the fighting along the current lines, far short of his ambitions to dominate Ukraine, two former senior Russian officials close to the Kremlin and American and international officials who have received the message from Mr. Putin’s envoys say.

“They say, ‘We are ready to have negotiations on a cease-fire,’” said one senior international official who met with top Russian officials this fall. “They want to stay where they are on the battlefield.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/world/europe/putin-russia-ukraine-war-cease-fire.html
 
Current fronts? Not happening.
Yup. The article also mentioned that. I do think that in time the Ukrainians might warm up to a deal in which they accept autonomy for parts of the Donbas and losing Crimea. So in other words, pre-invasion borders. But as for now, they definitely won't agree to losing all that's been occupied post-invasion.

Still, senior American officials said they did not believe that any prominent Ukrainian politician could agree at this time to a deal leaving Russia with so much Ukrainian territory.
 
Putin Quietly Signals He Is Open to a Cease-Fire in Ukraine
Despite its bravado in public, the Kremlin has indicated its interest in striking a deal to halt the war — so long as it could still declare victory.



https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/world/europe/putin-russia-ukraine-war-cease-fire.html

Despite attempts by the Western media (who all receive their briefings from the agency) to positively spin this, Russia is actually in the driver's seat and is likely to secure a better deal than what was on offer in Istanbul at the start of the conflict. This has been disastrous for Ukraine, and Europe in general. The only clear winner seems to be the U.S., but now it's time to move on and shift our focus to the Middle East and the Far East.
 
Despite attempts by the Western media (who all receive their briefings from the agency) to positively spin this, Russia is actually in the driver's seat and is likely to secure a better deal than what was on offer in Istanbul at the start of the conflict. This has been disastrous for Ukraine, and Europe in general. The only clear winner seems to be the U.S., but now it's time to move on and shift our focus to the Middle East and the Far East.

Ukraine don't have a choice, you can't make a deal with someone like Putin, its out of the question.
 
Ukraine don't have a choice, you can't make a deal with someone like Putin, its out of the question.

It's such a Suedesi thing to insinuate that Ukraine should or even could have taken the disingenuous peace that was 'offered' early on in a war against an aggressive imperialist state. The end result would have been the complete destruction of an independent Ukraine.

Then again, he probably sees that more from the perspective of his anti-woke conservative hero Putin - so in that sense it's correct.
 
Putin Quietly Signals He Is Open to a Cease-Fire in Ukraine
Despite its bravado in public, the Kremlin has indicated its interest in striking a deal to halt the war — so long as it could still declare victory.



https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/world/europe/putin-russia-ukraine-war-cease-fire.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/12/16/fiona-hill-amanpour-intw-part-1.cnn

Pretty insightful interview with Fiona Hill on CNN - according to her "Putin is not negotiating, he is laying down the terms of Ukraine's surrender", "a win for Putin will be disastrous for NATO/US reputation", "US/European efforts to weaken Putin through sanctions have failed", "Putin's regime is stable", the "Russian economy is booming", "Putin is feeling no pressure from world actors (Middle East, China etc) to end this war, in fact all the pressure is on the United States and Europe" etc
 
https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/12/16/fiona-hill-amanpour-intw-part-1.cnn

Pretty insightful interview with Fiona Hill on CNN - according to her "Putin is not negotiating, he is laying down the terms of Ukraine's surrender", "a win for Putin will be disastrous for NATO/US reputation", "US/European efforts to weaken Putin through sanctions have failed", "Putin's regime is stable", the "Russian economy is booming", "Putin is feeling no pressure from world actors (Middle East, China etc) to end this war, in fact all the pressure is on the United States and Europe" etc

Obviously, a win for Putin would indeed be a disaster for NATO/US, but "the russian economy is booming" is not true, its not doing as badly as one predicted, but saying that it is booming is not true.

An interest rate of 16% is not a sign of a booming economy.
 
https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/12/16/fiona-hill-amanpour-intw-part-1.cnn

Pretty insightful interview with Fiona Hill on CNN - according to her "Putin is not negotiating, he is laying down the terms of Ukraine's surrender", "a win for Putin will be disastrous for NATO/US reputation", "US/European efforts to weaken Putin through sanctions have failed", "Putin's regime is stable", the "Russian economy is booming", "Putin is feeling no pressure from world actors (Middle East, China etc) to end this war, in fact all the pressure is on the United States and Europe" etc
If you were Ukraine, what would you do? What concessions would you give to Russia?