Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

More on that new US package.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. is finalizing a massive package of military aid for Ukraine that U.S. officials say is likely to total as much as $2.6 billion.

It’s expected to include for the first time nearly 100 Stryker combat vehicles and at least 50 Bradley armored vehicles to allow Ukrainian forces to move more quickly and securely on the front lines in the war with Russia — but not the tanks that Ukraine has sought.
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https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-military-technology-45417ab5b91036fc291cedf357533509
 
nimic said:
The US has an absolutely stupid amount of tanks, they really could send some to Ukraine and not notice they were gone.
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The problem with sending Abrams is that it will be mostly useless without the huge logistical support that the US military is built around. I could see the US announcing that it will be giving Ukraine some token amount of tanks just to force Scholz to come up with another excuse, but they would be functionally useless. The turbine engine makes some sense in the broader American military infrastructure system, but the diesels in Leopards would be far more useful to the Ukrainians since they could be maintained more easily.
 
Rajma said:
Makes my blood boil, Germany simply can’t be relied upon in future defense conversations.
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This is just silly. What difference does it make to Germany whether USA sends Abrams or not? What is Scholz worried about? That Russia will bomb Berlin with nuclear weapons and will not bomb Washington? I cannot find any logical explanation for what Scholz is doing for a full year now. Is he a Russian agent?

Remember this? January 27, 2022, one year ago. Five thousand helmets!!! How generous!

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/27/germanys-offer-to-send-5000-helmets-to-ukraine-provokes-outrage.html

‘It’s a joke’: Germany’s offer of 5,000 helmets to Ukraine is met with disdain amid Russia invasion fears
 
Raoul said:
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I have said that already some time ago, it’s a nightmare logistically speaking, making Germany’s condition even more crazy.

Also:


In addition, Austin will apparently pressure the new Germany’s defense minister to drop this nonsensical condition too. Not a good look on Germany at all this whole Leopard case.
 
It sounds like the US should just send an Abram to fulfil the condition and open the doors for the tanks that suit Ukraine
 
Rajma said:
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Good on her. It’s such a shortsighted argument “we are giving all this money and weapons to Ukraine”.

The real argument is “Ukraine are currently the first line of defence in Europe and we are giving them what we need to protect us, in return many are giving up their lives”.
 
Raoul said:
This makes no sense. Weakening Russia is in everyone's best interests. Well except Hungary and Serbia.
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Its the - west is escalating the war by providing weapons - stance. You know Russia wants peace and negotiations and Ukraine and the West are escalating it..
 
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Sir Matt said:
The problem with sending Abrams is that it will be mostly useless without the huge logistical support that the US military is built around. I could see the US announcing that it will be giving Ukraine some token amount of tanks just to force Scholz to come up with another excuse, but they would be functionally useless. The turbine engine makes some sense in the broader American military infrastructure system, but the diesels in Leopards would be far more useful to the Ukrainians since they could be maintained more easily.
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Do America still older less advanced tanks or have they sold them all off at this point?
 
stevoc said:
Do America still older less advanced tanks or have they sold them all off at this point?
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I think (others might know more) that the last other tank the US military used was the M60, and they seem to have gotten rid of the last of those in the 90s, scrapped or sold to other countries. They don't seem to have any in inventory, even kept as a sort of last resort. It is M1 Abrams or nothing as far as US tanks go (again, seems to me from a quick glance).
 
MTF said:
I think (others might know more) that the last other tank the US military used was the M60, and they seem to have gotten rid of the last of those in the 90s, scrapped or sold to other countries. They don't seem to have any in inventory, even kept as a sort of last resort. It is M1 Abrams or nothing as far as US tanks go (again, seems to me from a quick glance).
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Yeah makes sense, the US spend so much on their military that they wouldn't want to keep obsolete stuff around when they can make money selling them on.
 
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Denmark is going to donate it's Cesars to the Ukraine. So they will go directly from the French producer to the Ukranian battlefront.
 
VorZakone said:
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So the reason is Scholz doesn't want Germany to be seen as escalating before others do? I don't think there's much danger of that... What's being asked for is him to remove the barrier that prevents other countries from supplying their own equipment. The reasoning doesn't make much sense to me.

Looks like Poland for one is going to release their Leopards regardless.
 
Simbo said:
So the reason is Scholz doesn't want Germany to be seen as escalating before others do? I don't think there's much danger of that... What's being asked for is him to remove the barrier that prevents other countries from supplying their own equipment. The reasoning doesn't make much sense to me.

Looks like Poland for one is going to release their Leopards regardless.
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There's some fog of information here...argument seems to be that no one has actually formally requested Germany for permission to send their own Leopards. Not even Poland.

 
Real Name said:
Holy war. So Ortodhox fighting another Ortodhox nation aided by Muslims is a holy war. Sounds legit.
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If these guys need propagandist clowns like Solovyev to travel to the front lines to motivate them then the Russians are truly fecked.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah makes sense, the US spend so much on their military they they wouldn't want to keep obsolete stuff around when they can make money selling them on.
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Ordinarily they would sell them to developing nations in the middle east or the like, or in the case of Ukraine, simply donate them
 
RoyH1 said:
Denmark is going to donate it's Cesars to the Ukraine. So they will go directly from the French producer to the Ukranian battlefront.
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From my understanding they are giving in total 19 Caesars to Ukraine or in other words every 155mm howitzer currently in use with the Danish armed forces.
 
VorZakone said:
There's some fog of information here...argument seems to be that no one has actually formally requested Germany for permission to send their own Leopards. Not even Poland.

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Feels unlikely given how many countries have pledged a number of these tanks and how long its been debated. I think Spain was the first, probably six months ago now, before it was reported Germany had blocked them.

I suppose we can't know for sure if formal requests have been made.
 
Simbo said:
Feels unlikely given how many countries have pledged a number of these tanks and how long its been debated. I think Spain was the first, probably six months ago now, before it was reported Germany had blocked them.

I suppose we can't know for sure if formal requests have been made.
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It's highly unlikely that Habeck, who is a vocal supporter of Ukraine, would lie about this. If he says there hasn't been a formal request that is believable.

However it's well possible that it was communicated "don't bother, the chancellor will block it anyways"
 
the hea said:
Patriot, Stryker, Archer, CV-90, GLSDB, Caesar, SAMP/T... We are well passed the "clearing out the old stuff" phase now.
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True. I think its also a realization that many of these systems will never be used, so might as well contribute them to a real world situation that actually warrants their use, and in the process protect the geopolitical interests of the nations donating them.
 
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