Yep... it's unlucky for Ukraine that SPD won the last election. Likely both CDU or Greens would have acted more swiftly if there candidates would have become chancellor, but sadly the party won that always misunderstood what "pacifism" is about
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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Miracles do happen, I agree with you on something, this is a good article
I missed that, so I'll answer today.
I am really glad we agree on something, and I am sure we agree on much more, but perhaps it is obstructed by different viewpoints and experiences. Let me give you two "what if" scenarios. I know that in your mind they are totally different. Try to see my point of view, that these two scenarios have a lot of similarities.
1. What if, when Putin invaded Ukraine, the Germans thought: "In the past, we invaded Ukraine and killed a lot of Ukrainians but now we will show to everyone that we have changed, we will make sure that Ukraine wins, we have one of the largest military export industries in the world, we will provide Ukraine with everything they need to beat Putin. It does not matter what everyone else is doing or is not doing, we, Germany, we will make sure that Ukraine wins. We will prove to everyone that we are against autocracy, we support democracy and our friends, not with words, but with deeds, we will prove to everyone that we care more about our values than our pockets."
2. What if, when Greece first faced economic problems in 2010, the Germans thought: "In the past, we invaded Greece and killed a lot of Greeks but now we will show to everyone that we have changed, we will make sure that the Greek economy is not destroyed, we have one of the largest economies in the world, we will provide Greece with everything they need to beat the markets. It does not matter what everyone else is doing or is not doing, we, Germany, we will make sure that the Greek economy survives. We will prove to everyone that we support our friends, we support EU, not with words, but with deeds, we will prove to everyone that we care more about our values than our pockets."
What do you think? Perhaps both of those "what if" scenarios seem very silly and impossible to you? Completely disconnected from reality?
But you know what is funny? In both cases, in the end, Germany provides what is needed, but gets there screaming and kicking, blaming others, not accepting their own mistakes, proving to everyone that they are selfish bastards who only care about themselves and their pockets, have no real values, have learned nothing from the past, and they are not dependable as friends. In the second example, in the end, Germany provided Greece with the loans it needed. Only, it happened 5 or 6 years too late, after considerable pressure from other countries, after many many Greek companies went bankrupt, after the Greek economy fell 22%. If Germany had provided exactly the same loans in 2010, voluntarily, with a smile, nothing bad would have happened, and all Greeks today would love Germany.
In my opinion, the same thing is happening during this past year with Ukraine. In the end, Germany will provide Ukraine with what it needs to beat Putin. But Germany will do this only after considerable international pressure from UK, USA, Poland etc. But why? Why does Germany need so much external pressure in order to do the right thing? And no, Germany should not look sideways, Germany is not in the same position as the Netherlands or France (for example). Holland has never invaded and killed Greeks or Ukrainians. And yes, it matters, people remember the past, the present and the past are linked.
Indeed interesting scenarios and as you assume I do indeed think they are massively different. Who broke the rules in both scenarios? Russia by invading Ukraine, Greece by faking it's economy. One is a victim of an external aggressor, the other is victim of it's own corruption and criminality.
Nonetheless for both scenarios you describe an outcome that would have been the best for the people in Ukraine and Greece. And indeed for both scenarios there were politicians that advocated for more or less what you propose, but they simply were a minority.
And regarding the current conflict: Germany wants to not repeat WW2 at all costs. There is probably nothing which feels more like WW2 to most Germans than German tanks rolling towards Russia. Everything which isn't a tank somehow doesn't invoke the same pictures, so that's part of the psychology behind this hesitation.
I think this is stupid, but the chancellor does seem to think so, as well as a lot of German people. Don't forget, we are talking about a country that got taught the lesson not to fight wars after WW2, and then again had to agree to a massive demilitarization to formally make peace after that in 1990. It's hatd to find another society that is less open to military topics than the German.
Is this SOP?
Greece was not "faking its economy"? What does it ever mean, "faking its economy"? Why Germans keep blaming the victims? Merkel said that Ukraine is corrupt, that's why Germany did not accept them into NATO in 2008! USA wanted them into NATO but Germany, Putin's best friend, are the paragons of virtue who keep blaming all others as corrupt!
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Don't tell me the Kremlin are expecting Ukrainian airstrikes on Moscow soon albeit that single building alone is quite the juicy target. #Insecurity
I read that the machine weighs 15-20 tons. Not the best idea to put that on a roof. One for the memes anyway.
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Greece was doing financial shenanigans in order to make their numbers look better.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16834815
And Ukraine was corrupt, says Merkel. While Germany is perfect. Always. One hundred years of perfection. Blame everyone else.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...lf-not-trying-hard-enough-ukraine-2022-06-07/
"That wasn't the Ukraine we know today ... The country was not stable, it was riddled with corruption," she said.
Don't tell me the Kremlin are expecting Ukrainian airstrikes on Moscow soon albeit that single building alone is quite the juicy target. #Insecurity
I read that the machine weighs 15-20 tons. Not the best idea to put that on a roof. One for the memes anyway.
Shows the levels of paranoia they must be going through.
Alright.
You seemed so dumbfounded by the notion that Greece faked its economy. I just gave you a source. Never said Germany itself is perfect.
Not quite sure we are there yet, but getting very close. The odd thing is that all of this will get reversed when Putin leaves and they go Democratic.
Ukraine hit the air force base in Engels, which is a longer striking distance than Moscow would be. So they would be absolutely capable of launching an attack. It's unlikely to succeed, but the capability is there using one of their precious few Tu-141.
Well, if you look at a source like this you see it's a simple fact that the Ukraine war is a war between an imperialistic corrupt oligarchy and a peaceful corrupt oligarchy: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020
Then you see Germany ranked 9 (not perfect, but quite good) and Ukraine in rank 117, Russia in rank 129. Ukraine was almost as corrupt as Russia and only slowly improved (from 26 points in 2014 to 32 in 2021).
However the question one should maybe ask isn't whether Ukraine is corrupt (because it simply is), but how much of this was due to Russian influence and therefore how much the ongoing war did help Ukraine to get rid of corruption - or if it did make it worse. Reports I have seen indicate that the situation got better in this regard because there suddenly was leverage against oligarchs who have Russian ties.
I would give Russia nearly one decade post-Putin to rebuild its own reputation. Western countries will want guarantees and concrete foundations before the reversal is complete. For the record, that was how long it took Japan to rebuild their own reputation and then be back on the world economy after WW2, which is still incredible considering the situation in 1945.
Yeah agreed. It will be a bit rough once all this is over since Russia has never been Democratic and unlike eastern Europe, were entrenched in Communism for several more decades following Monarchy. If they do go Democratic once Putin falls, it will completely change the face of geopolitics and put a lot more pressure on China.
I think this is a photo op. It simultaneously helps enforce the narrative that Russia's survival is at stake, and dissuades eventual internal uprisings. The thing maybe doesn't even work. Or well, they could just be dumber than what we thought. It wouldn't be the first time.
Yeah you're right, it is a photo op no doubt designed to instill fear and reinforce the paranoia of foreign attack. Little do they know how small and desperate it looks from the outside.
There are too many pictures of that and the crane that put it on there to be a photo op.
"Top of mind for Ukraine side was durability of U.S. support following GOP takeover of the House. Burns emphasized the urgency of the moment on the battlefield and acknowledged that at some point assistance would be harder to come by, per sources."
I note the wiki page has been corrected at some point too. It was locked at some point last year after Russians won the edit battle, leading media the world over to spread their propaganda, using Wikipedia as a source.
You're taking the bolded so far that you keep likening Greece's corruption driven financial crisis with Ukraine facing a genocidal invasion. I think that's pretty offensive and ignorant. If you want to whine about the terms of Greece's bailout maybe make a thread for that, instead of abusing a conflict that has people dying by the tens of thousands for your little agenda.
From that article:
However, France and Germany broke the very rules that they had insisted on for everyone else.
Germany, the great European financial disciplinarian, was struggling because the cost of reunification with the former East Germany had left a big hole in its budget.
Mr Von Kyaw admits that Germany's government "really sinned".
Well, "not a real sin" he adds - Germany just "flexibilised the schedules."
"But when a big country does that, how can you afterwards impose on smaller countries, including Greece, to obey the rules?" he concedes.
And that affected the way Greece viewed the consequences of breaking the rules.
Ukraine is getting additional air surveillance radars: https://www.hensoldt.net/news/hensoldt-delivers-more-air-surveillance-radars-to-ukraine/
Two more (and brand new) units of the TRML-4D are going to be delivered in the next quarter. So far Ukraine has one of it (and will receive three more) as part of the first (and upcoming three) IRIS-T air defense systems.
It is unknown for which purpose exactly these two units will be used - it is likely to assume that they will be integrated with some air defense setup, but it's unclear which ones that could be.
Two more (and brand new) units of the TRML-4D are going to be delivered in the next quarter. So far Ukraine has one of it (and will receive three more) as part of the first (and upcoming three) IRIS-T air defense systems.
It is unknown for which purpose exactly these two units will be used - it is likely to assume that they will be integrated with some air defense setup, but it's unclear which ones that could be.
Will that ever happen though?
That seemed to be the plan with Yeltsin 30 years ago but the Russian people seem to be all too willing to accept a dictator.
My opinion is that Germans should not call other countries corrupt. It is racist. It is a lie. They have done it many times in their history, and it was wrong every time, they should stop doing it. Germany killed people with the justification that their group is "corrupt". Germany enlarged the Greek economic crisis by calling Greece corrupt. Germany actually earned money from this crisis.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...d-2-9-billion-euros-from-greeces-debt-crisis/
This pattern has a very long history with Germany. Germany called Ukraine corrupt and did not accept them into NATO in 2008, while USA wanted them. Do you believe that this was the actual reason that Germany did not want Ukraine into NATO? At the same time, Germany was Putin's best friend, and Germany did not call Russia corrupt. Germany focuses on the "corruption" of others, only when they want a moral justification for advancing their own interests. They called the Jews "corrupt" and decided that this is a good reason to send them to Auschwitz. They called Ukraine "corrupt" and they decided this is a good reason to leave Ukraine unprotected from Putin. They called Greece "corrupt" and they decided this is a good reason to help destroy the Greek economy. History repeats itself.
It won’t be easy but it will happen eventually imo