it all fell apart when you started with "I think...."
RufRTs Obama Windup
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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it all fell apart when you started with "I think...."
Hey you're the one who said your views were in line with the Blue Dogs. Don't shoot the messenger.
stop winking at me, its making me a tad insecure...
I think a few people in this thread...well one in particular need anger management....or at least some form of martial art.....
Why are you pretending to be a Yank?
It might be prudent to get the anger management before being trained to kill a man with bare hands.
For the same reason you're trying to act intelligent...its fun to pretend.
In my opinion you are way out of line attacking and insulting other users.
People have been banned for less.
Hell, let him have his fun.
Him insulting people is the only time where I haven't seen him mention Obama and other such synonyms.
You're losing it.
My guess is you're a racist and never wanted to see a black man in the White House.
Some people don't know when to stop digging....
The point I was making is that the US will be feeling the Bush years LONG after Obama is gone, even if he wins a second term.
It can take decades to build something, and only an instant to destroy it. I hold firmly by the principle that most people are stupid, Bush had 8 years to make wrong decision after wrong decision and you expect Obama to fix it all in a year?
Obama won't fix it all, I'll let you know that right now, and it is unlikely that the NEXT president or the president after that will finish cleaning up this mess.
Expecting Obama to clean up the entirety of Bushes mess in one term, let alone two terms is foolish, naive and demonstrates a lack of understanding in terms of domestic and geo politics and their practical application and implications home and abroad.
thats too complicated for a Republican to understand....
Weaker? It makes better sense for the US to come over as a listener, not the bully that Bush portrayed. However as China is the booming economy in the world right now (the States had the roles reversed due to Bush's great financial policies on the national debt) it makes sense for Obama to hear what China has to offer.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think you're overstating Bush's mistakes and allowing it to be rationalization for a potential ineffective presidency from Obama (not saying it's been in effective to date). Let's not forget the majority of the world didn't like the US under Clinton either (hell most recent presidents). The problem with muslim extremism and hatred toward the west isn't isolated to 8 years of Bush. In the end the world community will not care if Obama makes a trip here or there to shake hands, takes pictures and makes excellent speeches. It will come down to many other things and many of those will be out of Obamas control.
Man, I don't you just hate it when I'm right ?
Dems alarmed as independents bolt - Alex Isenstadt - POLITICO.com
Dems alarmed as independents bolt - Alex Isenstadt - POLITICO.com
You have to be joking right ? I mean if you are suggesting it, go ahead...its the easiest way to have a nice uniform opinion on the site. But if insulting members or "attacking" members is a criteria for banning, then half the caf would be out. Hell, check some of the language in this thread directed at yours truly...I doubt you have the same standard for them.
My post is bang on - I have seen posters banned for less.
The fact that people are getting away with it against you is probably why you are getting away with it against them...the CE forum is psychotic.
I notice you post more in here than anywhere else on the site. Why not go join a political forum, or something more to your liking? You'll find people that agree with you, and disagree, and want to argue about it until they are blue in the face. I fail to understand what hanging out in the CE forum on a Manchester United site is doing for your apparent die hard interest in politics - specifically fanatical right wing politics.
The CE forum on redcafe is for discussion on world news, not ideology wars....
No, it really doesn't. The US is weakened, but Obama needs to hide that, not reflect it.
It's important that a wide variety of views are welcome here in the CE. Its what gives the forum meaningful contrast. That includes left and right leaning views that may annoy those who don't agree with them. Same applies to religion v atheism. There's plenty of banter and sarcasm, but there's also a healthy debate on a series of important topics going on. Lets keep it that way.
Does anyone seriously still believe Obama can be anything more than Bill Clinton the second (and I mean that with the greatest amount of disrespect). People keep saying "give him time" and fail to address the specific points of policy where he's failing to live up to his campaign agenda. It's all very well hiding behing vague defences like "it'll take ages to clear up this mess" but how are we supposed to interpret his deliberate refusal to instill anything approaching the hope and change of his campaign rhetoric.
I think that's a bit too bleak. He's made a good effort to get the policies that he's campaigned on off the ground. The health care bill that's in the Senate now is good evidence of this. He campaigned for it and it looks like he'll get it once it goes through the Senate, which would be massive, in that every President since Teddy Roosevelt at the turn of the 20th centuryh as failed at overhauling health care. He looks to be rolling out a new Afghanistan policy shortly, which will probably have a clear exit strategy. In my estimation, he's done a good job of taking the perceived arrogance and imperialism out of US foreign policy, and is expected to make some progress on Climate change in the near future. All of this in one year during an economic crisis he inherited from the Bush years. Passing health care reform in and of itself would be massive. In short, he's doing fine.
I think that's a bit too bleak. He's made a good effort to get the policies that he's campaigned on off the ground. The health care bill that's in the Senate now is good evidence of this. He campaigned for it and it looks like he'll get it once it goes through the Senate, which would be massive, in that every President since Teddy Roosevelt at the turn of the 20th centuryh as failed at overhauling health care. He looks to be rolling out a new Afghanistan policy shortly, which will probably have a clear exit strategy. In my estimation, he's done a good job of taking the perceived arrogance and imperialism out of US foreign policy, and is expected to make some progress on Climate change in the near future. All of this in one year during an economic crisis he inherited from the Bush years. Passing health care reform in and of itself would be massive. In short, he's doing fine.
Healthcare I'll give you. Despite the fact that he's going to pass a watered down version of his original plan in a country where polls show that the majority supported his original plan (but unfortunately weren't as organised or well funded as its opponents). Even this small achievement is remarkable in US politics as you correctly point out. Still, as I am to understand it this will still fall a long way short of the ideal of universal healthcare.
He's also made minimal progress on issues such as Iraq and Guantanamo bay which I fully acknowledge.
But look at the whole host of other issues. During the election campaign he said the US needed to re examine the way the financial sector works and maybe even their entire economic paradigm, then he goes and appoints people like Volcker and Rubin as economic advisers. He continues an (arguably) illegal and unwinnable war in Afghanistan, considers a mild public condemnation of Israeli settlements to be a satisfactory policy for the middle east and despite his election pledge to be the first US president to publicly acknowledge the Armenian genocide he shows no signs of doing anything of the sort.
We've had a few long threads debating US-Afghanistan policy. In short, there isn't much he can do until he evaluates a new long term strategy that contains a US exit strategy. The assumption that he would simply withdraw from Afghanistan despite campaigning for escalation is in my estimation not very realistic, as is the notion that the war is illegal given that its backed up by significant troop contributions from the international community. All in all, given that we're only in month 10 of a conceivably 48-96 month Presidency, i'd say its too soon to jump to any definitive conclusions on a host of issues that are still in the process of being adjudicated.
Fair enough. You're absolutely right, he still has the ability to affect any number of changes that would convince me, I just see all the signs pointing in the wrong direction thus far.
Time for a quarterly update kids....
1) Healthcare
What a watered down load of shite....its all about passing "anything" at this point so that the Great Leader can claim success in his number one domestic priority. 1/6 of the economy, lets ram it through before anyone has a chance to read the bill or constructively criticize it...and definitely before Christmas because that is SUCH an important deadline...ridiculous. No matter what comes out of this Bill, it will pale in comparison to the lofty rhetoric and promises that got him elected.
2) Climate Change
Another example of "pass anything, however imperfect and unbalanced" so that the Great Leader can claim success. Apparently, the luster has worn off and world leaders rightfully characterised his address today as "weak and ineffectual"
3) Jobs
Anything to show for the stimulus package yet ? Was it 3 million jobs created ? A million jobs saved ? 2 Million jobs created...or a jobless recovery ? Job well done...
Bottom line ? Stay in the middle on all issues, pass something so that the political position is not weakened, and be in re-election mode from day one.
For a guy that was supposed to represent a new dawn in politics, a new style of governance, a fresh "hope for change", its all the same old shite.
1) Healthcare
What a watered down load of shite....its all about passing "anything" at this point so that the Great Leader can claim success in his number one domestic priority. 1/6 of the economy, lets ram it through before anyone has a chance to read the bill or constructively criticize it...and definitely before Christmas because that is SUCH an important deadline...ridiculous. No matter what comes out of this Bill, it will pale in comparison to the lofty rhetoric and promises that got him elected.
2) Climate Change
Another example of "pass anything, however imperfect and unbalanced" so that the Great Leader can claim success. Apparently, the luster has worn off and world leaders rightfully characterised his address today as "weak and ineffectual"
3) Jobs
Anything to show for the stimulus package yet ? Was it 3 million jobs created ? A million jobs saved ? 2 Million jobs created...or a jobless recovery ? Job well done...
Bottom line ? Stay in the middle on all issues, pass something so that the political position is not weakened, and be in re-election mode from day one.
For a guy that was supposed to represent a new dawn in politics, a new style of governance, a fresh "hope for change", its all the same old shite.
Welcome back Rurft, I agree by the way. Your still a gun toting republican loon.
a rebuttal befitting your level of intelligence Gambit, make sure a fellow lib pats you on the back today
what would you have him do ?
Think before you post. Why is the healthcare going to be a watered down version of what it was meant to be? Because of Republicans and Joe Lieberman who is only opposing it out of spite.
There is another view that the WH has done very little to force the opposing Senators from their positions and that Obama is actually getting the bill he wanted in the first place. None of this puts the moderates and conservatives in a kind light who've fought tooth and nail against what could truly have been a great bill and would have saved many lives in years to come.
And passing 'anything' is not really a bad thing. There's plenty of room for improvement but its a start.
Paul Krugman can explain it better even though you wont listen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/opinion/18krugman.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Very little to do with Obama really. Everyone has reached Copenhagen with his own agenda and there really is no way they can come out with something that will make everyone happy.
I'll give you this one. The stimulus package simply want good enough and even now less is being done than is necessary. It'll tickle you to know that 'Top Leftist' Krugman agrees with you on this .
Still think I'm a liberal, brilliant. Admittedly these last few weeks Obama has become the biggest sell out in history, whilst I don't blame him for the economic recovery, his back peddling over the health reform and uselessness over the environment on the world stage, makes him no different than Bush or Clnton before him. Shame.
No I always said I would judge him by his actions, not by what Fox or republicans said. Just once again the leader of the free world is just another whore for profit hunting companies who doesn't have the balls to act like the most powerful man on earth with out their backing.
Any rebuttal citing Paul Krugman is a laugh
If you are suggesting that the current Bill on offer is anything close to what was promised and used to get elected, then its obvious you're an Obama fan boy and nothing more.
Some of us saw through the fluff and lofty rhetoric months ago...
You have to give them a chance. As opposed to just constantly slagging off everything and making comparisons to Nazi Germany, Khmer Rouge etc. He's exactly the same as the rest. You could have voted Mcain in, it would be no different. I really hoped for the sake of Americans that they would get a National Health Service which with the amount you lot spend on healthcare, would have been equal too if not better than Frances. As for the green issue, absolutely no change whatsoever from the States. Your meant to lead us all and show us how it's done, not say feck it, we can make more money keeping things the same. Same over here, we'll get rid of Brown at last but our Conservative party are no different.
Any rebuttal citing Paul Krugman is a laugh
If you are suggesting that the current Bill on offer is anything close to what was promised and used to get elected, then its obvious you're an Obama fan boy and nothing more.
Of course. Citing a Nobel prize winning economist who has taught at Yale, harvard, lse, columbia and princeton is a laugh for idiots like yourself. I'm sure you know more than him.
I'm not suggesting that the current version of the bill is what Obama promised. I'm saying that certain people believe that this is the bill he wanted/expected to pass in the first place. And this is a bad thing. bad. not good. A negative for obama. I'd give you another link to a very good column (glenn greenwald) that would explain this much better but it'd be wasted on you.
Inexperienced Junior Senator, elected on rhetoric with no significant legislative accomplishments (was a community organizer though
) whose chief election campaign tactic was to invoke JWB at every opportunity...the blind adoration and zealous support based on ideology above all else was stunning (but ultimately misplaced).He stood on the sidelines on healthcare until it was too late to shape the policy (even if I disagree with its premise)....that is a failure in leadership.
The net result is a watered down costly healthcare bill that only serves to give democrats and Obama the opportunity to say "we passed healthcare"...no matter how shite the legislation. The stimulus and healthcare are costly left experiments that are fine to debate...but the reality is our kids will be paying for these ideological mistakes for generations
The value of citing a Nobel prize is laughable....Obama won one for doing nothing.
Citing Yale/Harvard/Columbia and Princeton (all bastions of liberalism) only strengthen the argument that Krugman is hardly an impartial voice (lets forget that he also writes for the leftist bogroll NYT)
anything else ?
Inexperienced Junior Senator, elected on rhetoric with no significant legislative accomplishments (was a community organizer though
He stood on the sidelines on healthcare until it was too late to shape the policy (even if I disagree with its premise)....that is a failure in leadership.
The net result is a watered down costly healthcare bill that only serves to give democrats and Obama the opportunity to say "we passed healthcare"...no matter how shite the legislation. The stimulus and healthcare are costly left experiments that are fine to debate...but the reality is our kids will be paying for these ideological mistakes for generations
The healthcare bill doesn't really change anything, except give the insurance companies a way out of being sued. The stimulus would have been done by both sides, the results would have been the same. All I'm saying now is he'sno different than Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan. Your kids aren't going to be paying anything in years to come from this, but rather the events of the past created by both parties in the last 3 decades that have led to this situation.
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