Moutinho was certainly a very good player in the past. Good enough to have played for us in my view. But he is declining a bit now. Neves had the better season and will improve, especially if he comes here.
Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)
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Neves or Saul
Just sign the fecker. At that price we have nothing to lose, are we expecting to unearthen world class players for peanuts now ?
Surely he can't be worse than mcfred, at worst he'll be good as a squad player and good for rotation. At best, we might finally have some balance in midfield which is backed up by a good defense. Plus he pl proven and has age on his side.
Surely he can't be worse than mcfred, at worst he'll be good as a squad player and good for rotation. At best, we might finally have some balance in midfield which is backed up by a good defense. Plus he pl proven and has age on his side.
Worst case scenario he's Schniderlin, best case he's Carrick. Most likely he'll be somewhere in between which is an improvement on what we've got in that position anyway.
again, theres not much to notice about a defensive mid but considering we struggled to beat them and even score often over his time at wolves would suggest he did pretty well against us
Schneiderlin wasnt on the same level as Neves.
On Schneiderlin , I've never seen a player look completely bereft of confidence and self esteem in his time here.
The enormity of United shrunk him mentally and he never recovered.
The enormity of United shrunk him mentally and he never recovered.
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True, he was much better at Southampton than Neves has been for Wolverhampton.
Thanks! This was mostly my impression too (albeit having not watched him that much). A worse version of Jorginho, which is still better than McFred.
Agreed.
The issue Nuno had at Wolves was that he was lumped with numerous players where he had to fit them all in. And the best way to fit players like Neves into your team is to play a reactive brand of football. Nuno when he was appointed Valencia head coach, implemented a high pressing, high tempo, fast transition play style, with two high energy #8s and had his CM, wide forward and striker, all pressing as high as the opposition goalkeeper. You can't do that effectively with Neves because he gets bypassed too easily due to how immobile he is. He then had to fit Moutinho into the team who at 32 was past his peak but still out shone Neves for several seasons before his decline due to age started showing.
So it was sensible from Nuno to adopt a low to mid-block with the hand he was dealt. And playing with a 3 man back-line gave the likes of Neves and the aging Moutinho protection which was required. Neves was also targeted quite regularly against teams who were adept at pressing high up the pitch and looked lost on a number of occassions when there was no space. Which isn't a surprise due to how immobile he is both on/off the ball.
IMO we need a player in midfield who isn't just technically strong but is also someone that has the capability to get around the pitch quickly, which is important if a team wants to effectively press high and counter press in a style which favours fast transitions rather than possession play.
Moutinho was the correct profile of player for such a role, but he's past his best now. So IMO, the likes of Camavinga, Caqueret etc should be considerations because they're players who have the touch and technique but also have the dynamism both on and off the ball which really helps if one wants to implement a fast transition play style with a high back line. Both Camavinga and Caqueret are also comfortably better at evading the press in comparison to Neves. We would still need a more defensive minded CM next to them, but the aforementioned two would provide a much better balance for the reasons I've described.
I remember being convinced by the Caf that Schneiderlin was going to be the real deal and there were plenty of stats posted at the time which indicated he was going to be a fantastic signing.
Neves excites me. I know his stats aren't mindblowing but that doesn't turn me off him. I think there's a lot of under-rating being done by some and there is every possibility that he could shine with great players around him. Really hope we nab him.
Neves excites me. I know his stats aren't mindblowing but that doesn't turn me off him. I think there's a lot of under-rating being done by some and there is every possibility that he could shine with great players around him. Really hope we nab him.
In fairness to Schneiderlin, didnt he have "personal problems" (whatever that means) that has plagued his career since? I know he took 5 months off at Everton for these reasons. I dont think it was a case of Schneiderlin suddenly waking up and he was a terrible footballer. You cant class ever signing as a Schneiderlin in waiting.
Better call Saul.
Didn't know that.
I like the cut of your jib. It's clear to see we're only looking at CMs and delaying any move for a CDM until next season when we'll also go all out for a top striker.
IF and its a big IF.... Pogba was to stay I don't think we would sign a CM at all. We're eyeing up Pogba replacements in case we have to sell him in this window or the club don't want to risk him leaving on a free next season.
If Pogba does leave or is sold, then I don't see many ready made candidates to succeed him than Neves. Saul doesn't do it for me as a CM and I don't know if Camavinga has the passing range yet to have a big immediate impact.
I would bet that if we signed Neves alot of people would get over Pogba leaving.
You certainly can't. It's just an example to illustrate that there's more factors that need to be considered when judging the potential success of a signing than just stats. Some players have it in them to successfully make the step up to a big club and other's just would never be able to thrive in such a pressure cooker.
He is also a good FK taker and has a great shot. Some of his goals are scholeslike. It's a steal for the reported price.To be honest if we sell Pogba we can have both Neves and Saul. Would be a great balance in midfield and lot of options.
People with opinions are like arseholes...or something like that
I amount of chances that fred skies nearly every game just reaffirms that we need to sign neves.
Fitting, you are the one posting shite.
Matic has the most progressive passing of our midfielders, and by far the most progressive dribbling of any our of players. He's by far the best midfielder we have at building play from deep and its not even close.
Ah statistics.
Have you noticed that our defenders have better 'passing distance' then the rest? It goes like Defense (and Matic who sits deeper then all our midfielders) > Midfielders > Forwards. Could it be the case that the deeper a player plays the more opportunity he has to do progressive passing? I mean who on earth could the likes of Cavani, Mason and Rashy give long passes to?
I think in Fred's head he shoots like Neves with both feet
He is Scholeslike in general. The closest thing to a Carrick/Scholes playmaker that's available and I can see him fitting in well. He would be able to get the ball forward quickly to the likes of Sancho and Rashford. I'd love to see him occupy one of the spaces that McFred hogged last season, neither are good enough for United.
Is there any substance to us actually bidding or is it just us in this thread ?
If you search Ruben Neves, lots of pages come up with vague links to us. Who knows perhaps they are all stemming from the Eurosport story that said we have a deal “quite far along” last week. No actual “substance” that I know of.
Fabrizio saying he is on our list/interested but nothing advanced yet (because we are waiting to resolve the Pogba situation).
So we are looking at him , Saul and Cavaminga no doubt. But seems he might be our 3rd choice, but since he seems the cheapest he might be the go to guy if Pogba renews or doesnt get sold.
Are there any reliable sources linking us to him, as i don't think we signing any more players unless we sell a few.
What are the stats for long passes without Pogba in the team? Cause that's were i think Neves can improve us.
What are the stats for long passes without Pogba in the team? Cause that's were i think Neves can improve us.
Neves for me. Saul is similar (although probably better) than Scott/Fred. Neves would give us something different for the double pivot. I'm unsure as to whether he's of the required quality though.
Or he is neither. Think Neves would be good at Utd.
people are judging Neves based on his last 12months at wolves, the period where they didnt perform as a team, with out his 2 main target men and 34+ old midfield partner its not easy for Neves to perform at the same level as he was before.
I still think at club like UTD, we can see his full flow because of the quality front line we have and other good midfield players around him
I still think at club like UTD, we can see his full flow because of the quality front line we have and other good midfield players around him
A bit worrying if a midfielder is so slow that even opposition fans are well aware of it. It's usually more obvious with defenders or attackers.
I'd never noticed it myself with Neves, but of course I wasn't focused on him (apart from when he was banging volleys and breaking hearts) whenever we played them, and Wolves is not the sort of side I'd watch when they aren't playing against United.
Is he really that slow?
I'd never noticed it myself with Neves, but of course I wasn't focused on him (apart from when he was banging volleys and breaking hearts) whenever we played them, and Wolves is not the sort of side I'd watch when they aren't playing against United.
Is he really that slow?
That signing still annoys me. Seemed odds on to be a great DMC here and he just wilted.
Does a CM need to be fast?
I hope that Ole tells his board this word-for-word.
Not overly, but I believe they need decent speed, else you become really susceptible when playing against ball-carrying CMs. For a team like ours where we rely of fullbacks bombing forward for width, it's even more important I reckon.
As I insinuated, it's not something that's hugely noticeable with CMs, as to your point, they're not as reliant on speed as most other positions, so for it to be something that appears to be so well known, it suggests he's remarkably slow, which is a worry.
Sure, the value argument exists but I still think you have to be definitively good enough. It's true we may get a fair chunk back at the rumoured price if he flops, particularly if the market rebounds. However this is not usually the way Manchester United approach signings, usually we would be expecting genuine quality or future quality not a moneyball approach.
Maybe I am underrating him looking at what the Wolves fans are saying but I just can't shake the feeling it's such a an incremental upgrade if anything. I'm not totally convinced, I guess that's the difference. Maybe he does offer a different range of passing to what we have outside Pogba which could add something but I think he has clear weaknesses compared to what we have too which means I'd rather a less compromised option.
All this said, Pogba is leaving us somewhat in the lurch and we may have to respond and he does offer something predictable as he has played in the PL.
Yeah I think I saw a few pages back where a Wolves fan said that Neves was much better this past year.
I'm just not going to be that enthused if we sign him. But maybe he would prove me wrong.
I quite understand your misgivings and I suppose the perceived risk all comes down to how much you or I rate Neves vs what we already have.
There’s also the opportunity-cost of spending money on Neves now instead of banking the cash for next summer but even taking that into account, I really feel an upgrade on the current CM options is rather urgent.
And I think his weaknesses have been a bit exaggerated and his strengths a little downplayed by a few posters in this discussion, especially considering the lift we can expect when he lines up with Varane and Maguire behind and Bruno and Sancho ahead of him, Shaw available on the wing, etc (it’ll be a candy shop for him).
For sure, he is not at peak Carrick level yet (and may never get there) but he does have several qualities we lack in CM.
A defensive midfielder needs a bit of pace on them. Carrick was deceiving, looked slow but in actual fact he had a bit of pace on him.
Necessary for recovery especially when in a team that plays on the front foot.
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