Is he an actual DM or a faux DM who passes the ball well and does it aesthetically?
Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)
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He's a deep lying playmaker. His defensive contribution is decent for a player in that role but he's not a DM.
As devilish said he's a deep lying playmaker so you'd be signing for his passing rather than defensive nous. The issue is that I don't he's got the speed of mind and flight of feet to deal with a lack of space.
I agree.
This is what we need more in my opinion. With our defence now, surely we don't need a pure destroyer in front of them. We would be better off with someone who can do some work covering the defence, but can play the ball up the pitch or onto the wings quickly and accurately. I like McFred but they are both limited passers.
And how much better we'd be for it. We've not had a capable deep lying playmaker since Carrick.
A calm ball winner and good passer is better than a leg breaking tackler and red card culprit.
Depends on the match. Seen him do a decent job breaking up play and not do too much on the ball, and other matches where he leaves something to be desired from a DM closing down opponents at the edge of the box but playing a couple of nice long passes to set up counter attacks and long shots from outside the box.
I'm not sure he's going to make 60+ passes and dominate with his passing in many games though
Neves replacement ???
If that’s the case, and I’m not sure as I’ve not watched a great deal of him at Wolves, then we definitely should not be interested.
Basically a tidy passer but painfully slow? We have Matic already who ticks those boxes.
As far as I can see we aren’t strongly linked anyway. We seem to be creating this link with him here on the caf.
Hes not like Matic, hes someone who runs the game for a team, we don't have anyone who can do that.
I am curious about how he'd do in a team that had more of the ball and the responsibility of being the one playing from deep as opposed to often ceding that task to Moutinho at Wolves. I certainly prefer him over pure cloggers like Rice and Ndidi, especially with Pogba not suited to how we play and likely off in the next 9 months.
Is he though? Is he better in possession, at press resistance and a more progressive passer than Matic?
I’m not even a big fan of Matic but he’s got a certain class about him and I’ve not witnessed Neves play at that level.
The fact that we aren't linked to an Ndidi/Kante/Matuidi type of DM/CM is an indication that we are looking for something different. For me the most important aspect of any CM that we do sign is the ability to hold and progress the ball to our attackers, whilst offering a defensive contribution.
We have a solid defence and should be able to play a higher line with Varane's recovery pace. That said, if we were to do so, as an opposition manager I'd be targeting the space behind Shaw (who likes to get forward) and Maguire. I digress but the point is I don't see us signing an out and out DM, rightly or wrongly.
We have a solid defence and should be able to play a higher line with Varane's recovery pace. That said, if we were to do so, as an opposition manager I'd be targeting the space behind Shaw (who likes to get forward) and Maguire. I digress but the point is I don't see us signing an out and out DM, rightly or wrongly.
That might be true, I cannot say I have seen a lot of Neves but even though Matic does those things well he doesn't dictate play. We need someone for this, if not Neves then someone.
I think you’re selling him a bit short. I’ve only seen him in a handful of Wolves games I admit, but each time I’ve thought how good he was and how we don’t have a player like him. His passing range is really good and he can spot openings for runs forward, definitely more progressive than anything we currently have.
No, he’s not the fastest but his game isn’t ruined by that. Not many links with him I agree but I’d certainly be interested in a punt at the rumoured price. Got to remember we need some value now after Sancho and Varane. Definitely an upgrade on McT.
For those who have watched him more than me, how does he compare with Jorginho? Is he near as good and is him a really similar type of player?
Personally I rate Jorginho and think he's the better player. Similar style though, I just think Neves can get lost in a game at times and his mobility isn't great. Jorginho isn't renowned for being mobile by he gets about the pitch ok.
Yeah given Ole's preference to play counter attacking football I would not be surprised if this is the case. With a solid defence we need someone who can make the clever transitional passes, you're going to have Bruno, Pogba, Rashford and Sancho all ahead of him dragging defenders out of position so its much more beneficial to have someone with an eye for a killer pass than what McFred can currently offer. The defensive requirement will hopefully have lessened by having Varane in there.
We need his type of calm but all defences need that destroyer in front of them to see it at its very best. Likewise allows the fbs to overload midfield.
I'd reserve criticism of his ability because Wolves and United are completely different beasts. Can't say for sure how much of a difference he'll make to the team.
Matic is like a CB sitting in front of defense. He's got every characteristics of a CB ie he's got decent positioning, he's good in air, he's not that mobile and he's strong. He's perfect in a midfield trio with Pogba in it as you only had to add a half decent B2B to it and you're done. The downside to that is that you're basically playing with 10 players as Matic would produce next to nothing in terms of creativity etc. Which is why Sir Alex used to hate these sort of players.
Neves is more like an inferior version of Carrick. He's defensively sound, he's not particularly fast but his positioning covers for that and he's got great passing range. The difference between Neves and Carrick was that the latter was stronger, taller and had world class positioning. That meant that in his prime he could support a midfield duo with Scholes without the added support of the likes of a McT/Fred/Cleverley (I am not comparing McT to Cleverley, the former is way better then the latter). Having said that Sir Alex would still add more steel to the team when needed. That was achieved by
a- playing Teveth-Rooney upfront
b- play Fletcher or Park on the flanks
c- adding Cleverley in midfield when Carrick starting showing signs of ageing.
Sir Alex had two hardworking beasts in midfield (Ince-Keane with Butt in reserve), then he shifted to a makeshift striker with Keane moving in a deeper role, then he bought a deep lying playmaker to play alongside Scholes only to end up with a 'ridiculous' midfield made up of a 40 year old, a deep lying playmaker and a headless chicken who was barely EPL level. Despite all of that he kept winning. The secret to that was balance.ie the correct measure of workrate and creativity.
Now lets have a look at our team. Forward wise its splendid. We've got Cavani/Greenwood upfront, Rashford/Martial on the left, Bruno/VDB as no 10, Sancho/Elanga/Diallo as RW. The same can be said about the defensive unit. Henderson/DDG are not quite WC but very close to that then you've got Shaw on the left, Maguire-Varane as CB and AWB (and possibly Trippier) as RB. What we need is a balanced midfield who can win the ball and deliver it forward as quickly and as effective as possible. We don't have that at United at the moment. McFred provide plenty of energy but they are very average in their passing which means that they slow our game down. McT/Fred and Pogba sort the creativity part. Unfortunately Pogba is a defensive liability which is something McT/Fred can't provide on their own. I think that a MCT/Fred and Neves CM can do the trick.
Totally agree. More than individual brilliance, it is the balance of the team that matters the most. Now that we have sorted CB and RW, I strongly believe Neves can be the missing jigsaw piece in the center midfield.
Camavigna has more potential. However he's 18, McT/Fred doesn't strike me as great mentors and Ole seems to be quite reluctant in breaking the McFred unless he's got a proven winning formula in his hands. Saul had been in decline for quite some time and he's the type of guy who would want to play week in week out. I very much doubt that Ole (the former super sub) and Carrick (a former WC CM who was 10 times the player Saul was) would be in the mood of taking such BS. In my opinion Neves is the most appropriate player for our CM.
What does Ruben Neves actually do?
Yes! Balance is the key. And quality. Balance and quality are the two keys. And depth. Balance, quality and depth are the three keys.
But yes, totally, balance in CM is very important. Neves plus one of McFred would be an improvement on any of our current combos.
Ask Mike Phelan.
Keep seeing how he is supposedly a deep lying playmaker who runs games, and yet Wolves have been one of the more pragmatic sides around that don't really play possession football. Something doesn't really tally there. He's either not getting the opportunity to backup these claims because of their style imposed by Nuno or he's simply not all he's cracked up to be and we underrate our own as usual. Pinging a few long range passes is not exactly a key skill we require either, no idea why that's constantly brought up as a reason to get him. Maguire, Lindelof, Pogba have a decent range of passing, it's not exactly a key failing.
Matic has the most progressive passing of our midfielders, and by far the most progressive dribbling of any our of players. He's by far the best midfielder we have at building play from deep and its not even close.
Matic with Fred should have been a good combination based on that. Not sure whether we even tried that but if we did, I don’t remember being either excited or reassured by it.Matic has the most progressive passing of our midfielders, and by far the most progressive dribbling of any our of players. He's by far the best midfielder we have at building play from deep and its not even close.
We did, it was horrible.
Yeah, but if Matic was in his prime it would work probably.
Agreed.
I'm also seeing people say Matic is basically a 3rd CB in midfield...Wow. It's like people haven't actually paid attention to him over his entire career.
Exactly. Matic is a a fantastic deep lying midfielder when on his game. He controls the midfield much better than any of our other central midfielders Pogba included.Matic has the most progressive passing of our midfielders, and by far the most progressive dribbling of any our of players. He's by far the best midfielder we have at building play from deep and its not even close.
Not a shock.
Is he all eleven players?
No, but what's his excuse? Moutinho is a pretty good player. They've got Dendoncker who can anchor things if need be and give guys license to play. The fact is they played pragmatic football, I would have thought if this guy was half as good as made out here he'd have been more consistently impressive and elevated the side.
If he's so good why has he not truly shone since they were in the championship? Why are they getting him out the door?
I just think people get carried away because he's on the market for X amount, nevermind whether he's actually a decent upgrade or simply a waste of funds that could be directed towards genuine quality. Someone like Locatelli looks miles better in reality and the stats show that too. We need quality players or potentially quality, not someone who's never really done it at club or international level.
What we need is someone who will improve the midfield ASAP, i.e. at a price we can afford now in this window.
Based on what I’ve seen (and there is a very measured assessment in this thread from a Wolves fan which supports the impression he’s made on me), Neves is good enough to improve us. Straight away that makes him worth a look. If the price is right to do a deal now, we should.
If he comes here, like anyone, he’ll sink or swim but, and this is the other reason to go for him, he has the personality to thrive (also captained Porto as a teenager, captains wolves now sometimes - is a leader).
Sure, if he fails he’ll have to be moved on but I think it’s low risk compared to most of the other names being tossed about (if we could actually get any of them this window). Sorry to repeat myself but we have got to get some quality into that midfield without delay.
Pops in a long-rang banger every now and then. But apart from that I am never impressed. My go-to comment on Neves is that in all of our meetings the last few years I hardly noticed him.** I was almost always more impressed by Moutinho who, at least against us, looked very good and covered every blade etc etc.
**yes yes I would notice him when he popped in a long-rang banger.
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