Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Garnacho Libre]

First time on this thread in a while and it's number 666.

6 full time managers between Busby and Fergie, Ruben is the 6th full time manager since Fergie. The number of the devil, the red devils? Is there something to all the 6's? ha.

Personally, I think Ruben should stick to his principles and if that means it will take 4 transfer windows and low league finishes for a couple seasons then let that be.

I say this because it has to get through throughout the entire club, this is how we play football and every single player, senior and youth, understand the clubs style of play.

 

[Toshey]

I see. How were these players for their previous teams?

Mediocre.
Hojlund managed 10 goals in 34 appearances in Italy.
Zirkzee 13 goals in 57.

We paid money that should get you a striker who scores something like 20 goals in 30 games.
For example, Retegui from Atalanta currently has 20 goals in 23 games. Paying 70 million for him I'd understand and support.

 

[JPRouve]

Mediocre.
Hojlund managed 10 goals in 34 appearances in Italy.
Zirkzee 13 goals in 57.

We paid money that should get you a striker who scores something like 20 goals in 30 games.
For example, Retegui from Atalanta currently has 20 goals in 23 games. Paying 70 million for him I'd understand and support.

I see so we have 2 players in the team.

Also in the case of Hojlund it's 9 goals in the equivalent of 20 games at 19 years old. Mediocre, it wasn't.

 

[BlackBen]

Truly the Red Devils.

 

[Blood Mage]

Subpar coaching, I don't know why people refuse to accept this simple answer.

This is indeed the case, and you only need look at the people we've hired to see it. Mourinho was the last proper manager we hired, since then an ex player and two unproven coaches from piss weak leagues aren't going to cut it especially when the recruitment has also been subpar.

 

[UnitedSofa]

This is indeed the case, and you only need look at the people we've hired to see it. Mourinho was the last proper manager we hired, since then an ex player and two unproven coaches from piss weak leagues aren't going to cut it especially when the recruitment has also been subpar.

Friendly reminder Ole was the only manager post fergie to get consecutive top 4 finishes in their first full seasons

 

[Marwood]

I see so we have 2 players in the team.

Also in the case of Hojlund it's 9 goals in the equivalent of 20 games at 19 years old. Mediocre, it wasn't.

Well I think if you're going to suggest coaching is the problem and that these players were so much better before coming here, it's probably on yourself to say who.

Hojlund had 10 goals in Italy. It's basically nothing to go on. We can't possibly be suggesting that's enough to say coaching has ruined him. If he'd scored 25 goals for three consecutive seasons them struggled here fair enough.

 

[Toshey]

I see so we have 2 players in the team.

Also in the case of Hojlund it's 9 goals in the equivalent of 20 games at 19 years old. Mediocre, it wasn't.

Mediocre it is.
Just look at City. They got one of the top scorers in Bundesliga and he started tearing it up inmediately. No extra "coaching" needed.
We spent 70 million on a "maybe, probably, eventually".

And I'm talking about strikers.
Yoro is youngster it's not relevant question.
Ugarte was hardly a starter or world beater at PSG.
De Ligt and Mazraoui = reserves at Bayern and transfer listed with nobody in a "race" to sign them.

Antony = good winger in Holland. Nowhere near 100 million worth, our scouts valued him at 5 times less.
Malacia = wtf.
Casemiro was surrounded by world class players in Real. Nowhere near Modric or Kroos level, cost us Modric or Kroos money.

Martinez = was doing exactly as he is doing for us.

It's not like we bought world class players and the coaching made them worse.
We bought average players and tried to be smartasses by paying huge money for "future potential".

And these are the results.
If you think it's about the coach, you're dreaming. We have overpaid and overhyped squad of average to bad players.

 

[stevoc]

Then he isn’t the right man for the job

So if he only tries one formation/system and it doesn't work with these players then he's not the right man for the job, fair enough.

But I don't know, personally I'd prefer him to try something different before we had to sack him.

 

[LittleP14]

Not sure if been mentioned already but The Mirror have just posted an article stating that Amorim wants to leave Manchester United.

I’d imagine this is the usual drivel being brewed by the rags in order to generate clicks as there’s absolutely no basis what so ever to the story.

 

[Marwood]

Mediocre it is.
Just look at City. They got one of the top scorers in Bundesliga and he started tearing it up inmediately. No extra "coaching" needed.
We spent 70 million on a "maybe, probably, eventually".

And I'm talking about strikers.
Yoro is youngster it's not relevant question.
Ugarte was hardly a starter or world beater at PSG.
De Ligt and Mazraoui = reserves at Bayern and transfer listed with nobody in a "race" to sign them.

Antony = good winger in Holland. Nowhere near 100 million worth, our scouts valued him at 5 times less.
Malacia = wtf.
Casemiro was surrounded by world class players in Real. Nowhere near Modric or Kroos level, cost us Modric or Kroos money.

Martinez = was doing exactly as he is doing for us.

It's not like we bought world class players and the coaching made them worse.
We bought average players and tried to be smartasses by paying huge money for "future potential".

And these are the results.
If you think it's about the coach, you're dreaming. We have overpaid and overhyped squad of average to bad players.

Agree.

And Antony had the same coach here as he did at Ajax. So how can we blame coaching for his performances?

 

[2 man midfield]

One of these days I will cuss out everyone on this forum for that BS. SAF took a relegation contender to midtable during his first 7 months and the following season he finished 2nd, the third season is the one where the team regressed and the fourth season they won the FA Cup, the 5th season they won the cups winner's cup and jumped in the first division's ranking. Yes in the middle of the rebuild in year 3 and 4 the team regressed in the league but that's after SAF improved things dramatically and showed his abilities.

You’re conveniently downplaying that middle but. Yes he finished 11th in his first season, then got us up to 2nd, but he still finished 11th and 13th in the two seasons after that. That’s two whole years after apparently having cracked it. We sacked Ole 4 months after finishing 2nd, while Ferguson got 2 years and then was still given a 3rd.

My point is that we’d have lost out on the greatest period in our history if we’d have thought then as we do now. Even the greatest ever to do it needed time. Why won’t we give that time to Amorim if we believed he was the guy just 3 months ago?

 

[C3Pique]

Not sure if been mentioned already but The Mirror have just posted an article stating that Amorim wants to leave Manchester United.

I’d imagine this is the usual drivel being brewed by the rags in order to generate clicks as there’s absolutely no basis what so ever to the story.

Absolutely clickbait nonsense derived from Richard Key's blog.

 

[stevoc]

First time on this thread in a while and it's number 666.

6 full time managers between Busby and Fergie, Ruben is the 6th full time manager since Fergie. The number of the devil, the red devils? Is there something to all the 6's? ha.

Personally, I think Ruben should stick to his principles and if that means it will take 4 transfer windows and low league finishes for a couple seasons then let that be.

I say this because it has to get through throughout the entire club, this is how we play football and every single player, senior and youth, understand the clubs style of play.

I heard this a lot with Ten Hag last year, we need to persevere with Ten Hag's football, it'll come good eventually, short term pain for long term gain etc.

I often posed the same question in response. What if we wait 3-4 years and we're still shit?

Does it really take that long to determine whether or not a manager is going to work out?

 

[Eugenius]

The big questions are still, what is going to get better, what greenshoots are there and what will Amorim do to improve performances?

If the only answer is spending £200m on players that's not particularly helpful.

 

[stevoc]

You’re conveniently downplaying that middle but. Yes he finished 11th in his first season, then got us up to 2nd, but he still finished 11th and 13th in the two seasons after that. That’s two whole years after apparently having cracked it. We sacked Ole 4 months after finishing 2nd, while Ferguson got 2 years and then was still given a 3rd.

My point is that we’d have lost out on the greatest period in our history if we’d have thought then as we do now. Even the greatest ever to do it needed time. Why won’t we give that time to Amorim if we believed he was the guy just 3 months ago?

But you can't seriously think we have to give every manager 3-4 years carte blanche regardless of results on the off chance they might be another Fergie?

 

[Posh Red]

So if he only tries one formation/system and it doesn't work with these players then he's not the right man for the job, fair enough.

But I don't know, personally I'd prefer him to try something different before we had to sack him.

I don’t buy into the theory that the formation is anywhere near as important as others seem to

 

[croadyman]

Our vile British media really turning up heat on him

 

[stevoc]

I don’t buy into the theory that the formation is anywhere near as important as others seem to

To be honest I don't really either. But something isn't right with this team, and this preceded Amorim. And hypothetically if it's still not working by October/November next season I'd like him to try something else. Because there has to be a limit to how long you can try something before you accept it just isn't going to work.

 

[JPRouve]

You’re conveniently downplaying that middle but. Yes he finished 11th in his first season, then got us up to 2nd, but he still finished 11th and 13th in the two seasons after that. That’s two whole years after apparently having cracked it. We sacked Ole 4 months after finishing 2nd, while Ferguson got 2 years and then was still given a 3rd.

My point is that we’d have lost out on the greatest period in our history if we’d have thought then as we do now. Even the greatest ever to do it needed time. Why won’t we give that time to Amorim if we believed he was the guy just 3 months ago?

I'm not downplaying the middle, I put it context which isn't a context that applies here.

SAF had an immediate impact and he showed why he deserved to be given time later during these first 18 months. Now the issue with the point that you are trying to make is that you want people to trust a manager during rough times when he hasn't showed his abilities in this club unlike SAF during his first 18 months. And that's ignoring the fact that SAF had shown way more with Aberdenn than Amorim did with SCP. An other small detail SAF and Eric Harrison were overhauling the entirety of the club on their own, Amorim is only coaching the team, he is a head coach not a manager.

It should be said that the point the vast majority of posters have made isn't to sack Amorim immediately but that in order to be trusted mid to long term he needs show his abilities as a coach soon otherwise there is no point hitching our wagon to him.

 

[2 man midfield]

But you can't seriously think we have to give every manager 3-4 years carte blanche regardless of results on the off chance they might be another Fergie?

I’m not saying we don’t need to see something. I backed Ten Hag last season primarily because of what we’d seen in his first. He can’t just lose every week and retain the backing of the fans, we will need to see something. But I don’t think it’s fair to judge him until he’s been given some of the tools he needs to do the job.

Ten Hag had a pre season and a summer transfer window before he even played a competitive game. Amorim came in mid season against his will, and was thrust straight into a hectic Christmas schedule followed by Thursday/Sunday fixtures. It sounds like I'm making excuses, but as far as I’m concerned I’m just being fair.

 

[DSG]

While I largely share the sentiment I have a small divergence that is probably unpopular. I wouldn't sack him this summer if he doesn't show enough progress but I wouldn't back him heavily in the transfer market. He needs to show his coaching skills in order to get any serious financial backing. Of course that opinion would change if a great alternative somehow appeared.

I think we can back him and not hurt our squad at the same time. Getting a real striker who has performed under multiple managers and systems wouldn’t be that risky. Osihmen?

Another athletic, strong, fast RB. A solid box to box CM.

I would not buy Simons or a “specialist”. We need to get faster and more physically imposing everywhere. Also, if you’re reducing spend on immediate contributors, buy a bunch of young players or 17-19 yr old reserves, scour South America. We should still be spending 150-250m per summer.

 

[2 man midfield]

I'm not downplaying the middle, I put it context which isn't a context that applies here.

SAF had an immediate impact and he showed why he deserved to be given time later during these first 18 months. Now the issue with the point that you are trying to make is that you want people to trust a manager during rough times when he hasn't showed his abilities in this club unlike SAF during his first 18 months. And that's ignoring the fact that SAF had shown way more with Aberdenn than Amorim did with SCP. An other small detail SAF and Eric Harrison were overhauling the entirety of the club on their own, Amorim is only coaching the team, he is a head coach not a manager.

It should be said that the point the vast majority of posters have made isn't to sack Amorim immediately but that in order to be trusted mid to long term he needs show his abilities as a coach soon otherwise there is no point hitching our wagon to him.

But Ten Hag also showed promise in his first year. It didn’t stop the fans and club turning on him. Fans are just less patient with managers now, whether they have credit in the bank or not.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

The big questions are still, what is going to get better, what greenshoots are there and what will Amorim do to improve performances?

If the only answer is spending £200m on players that's not particularly helpful.

There are no greenshots, maybe Liverpool and City away? But he can't seem to build momentum, and he should do better.

 

[JPRouve]

But Ten Hag also showed promise in his first year. It didn’t stop the fans and club turning on him. Fans are just less patient with managers now, whether they have credit in the bank or not.

We were terrible during the second part of the first season, fans and the club were right to turn on him. ETH had no credit in the bank.

 

[Red00012]

If we sack him I genuinely give up

We won’t sack him but best to avoid this thread. Some absolute trash been posted.

 

[Marwood]

The big questions are still, what is going to get better, what greenshoots are there and what will Amorim do to improve performances?

If the only answer is spending £200m on players that's not particularly helpful.

Getting rid of deadwood I'd say. It would be personally better for him right now if Antony and Rashford were options. But he's prioritised the longer term view of what's best for the club. Obviously made it clear to Casemiro as well he's not wanted. So that's some important squad shaping.

And just being here and making a start. If we'd waited till summer what would be the benefit? Another half season of rubbish under ETH. Amorim arriving in the summer and not knowing anything about the players.

 

[DSG]

Somebody must have constructed a league as if it began when Amorim joined. Where would we sit now in that league ?

1. Arsenal – 34pts, GD +23
2. Liverpool – 32pts, GD +21
3. Bournemouth – 28pts, GD +15
4. Nottingham Forest – 28pts, GD +7
5. Chelsea – 24pts, GD +5
6. Newcastle United – 23pts, GD +7
7. Crystal Palace – 23pts, GD +4
8. Manchester City – 21pts, GD +8
9. Fulham – 21pts, GD +2
10. Everton – 20pts, GD +3
11. Aston Villa – 20pts, GD -3
12. Brighton – 18pts, GD -4
13. Brentford – 15pts, GD 0
14. West Ham – 15pts, GD -12
15. Tottenham – 14pts, GD +2
16. Manchester United – 14pts, GD -7
17. Wolves – 13pts, GD -8
18. Ipswich – 9pts, GD -17
19. Leicester – 7pts, GD -23
20. Southampton – 5pts, GD -24

Blimey that wasn't hard to find.

Pretty depressing.

 

[lolok]

As a big Amorim supporter I'll say - he has to go. But I'm not counting this season.

He has to get full preseason and good summer window.

Then we can judge him. Regardless of the formation, our current squad is stuff of nightmares.

^^ It's this.

He came midseason into a situation that resembles a burning dumpster fire. Just like Klopp who came midseason and results didn't improve his first year. It was year 2 where they improved by 14 or 15 points. It helps that in his first and second summer transfer window they added Sane, Salah, Van Dijk and Wijnaldum.

Pep took over a good team-- his first year they took a step back. The year before he arrived, they signed De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi. His first transfer window in summer of 2016 saw them add Gundogon, Stones, Jesus, Sane, Bravo. His next summer they added Laporte, Mendy, Walker, Silva and Ederson.

Talent matters people. Look at the signings pre Klopp and pre Pep. Not so great, but they drastically improved because Klopp and Pep have an eye for talent. ETH? Not so much.

Unfortunately for Amorim is that if United continue to be terrible in the transfer window-- he will be begging to leave by the end of next season, because he will realize there is no hope.

Pep and Klopp couldn't turn this group into winners. Amorim has to follow Klopp's path, because there is no way United can spend like City did for Pep. I know Klopp is an amazing manager, but to nail a Salah and Van Dijk transfer in the same year. Wow. Anyone here have faith that United could sign 2 guys who would go on to be World Class? Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.

I'm just hoping this summer they add 3 starters, and one who has world class potential. Going to take multiple successful windows to turn around this dumpster fire.

 

[2 man midfield]

We were terrible during the second part of the first season, fans and the club were right to turn on him. ETH had no credit in the bank.

No credit? He finished 3rd, won the EFL cup, then won the FA cup. If literal trophies aren’t credit in the bank then what is? And don’t say league position because Ole had us 5th, 3rd then 2nd and he got the bullet 4 months later.

 

[Woziak]

Highly doubt it, considering he came into a shit show half way through the season, it would be pretty harsh to bin him off end of season. Can't see Ineos doing that. Add to that, he wanted to come in the summer and Ineos forced it through? So they should back their man, they have to really. Speaking of all these 4 at the back formations, none of them seemed to work for Eth.

On the caf if you go back to the voting poll of who everyone would like as manager, Frank was way behing Amorim and I chose Frank.

Keep saying SJR has. Form if RA loses the next two games, he’ll be gone because this club would be dragged into a genuine relegation battle and neither the Glazers nor Ineos have the stomach for that, they will both hope he gets 3/4 points in next two games so they don’t have to make that decision?

 

[always_hoping]

shit we are on page 666 now sign of the end times.

I left alone, my mind was blank
I needed time to think
To get the memories from my mind
What did I see? Can I believe?

 

[DSG]

Getting rid of deadwood I'd say. It would be personally better for him right now if Antony and Rashford were options. But he's prioritised the longer term view of what's best for the club. Obviously made it clear to Casemiro as well he's not wanted. So that's some important squad shaping.

And just being here and making a start. If we'd waited till summer what would be the benefit? Another half season of rubbish under ETH. Amorim arriving in the summer and not knowing anything about the players.

I don’t think getting rid of deadwood improves the squad. We need to make smart moves for incoming players, top talents like Wirtz, a top shelf striker, more athletic wingers.

The deadwood leaves, but the starting 11 even with Amad and Licha is subpar. I think selling Bruno is potentially better for us.

 

[lolok]

Somebody must have constructed a league as if it began when Amorim joined. Where would we sit now in that league ?

1. Arsenal – 34pts, GD +23
2. Liverpool – 32pts, GD +21
3. Bournemouth – 28pts, GD +15
4. Nottingham Forest – 28pts, GD +7
5. Chelsea – 24pts, GD +5
6. Newcastle United – 23pts, GD +7
7. Crystal Palace – 23pts, GD +4
8. Manchester City – 21pts, GD +8
9. Fulham – 21pts, GD +2
10. Everton – 20pts, GD +3
11. Aston Villa – 20pts, GD -3
12. Brighton – 18pts, GD -4
13. Brentford – 15pts, GD 0
14. West Ham – 15pts, GD -12
15. Tottenham – 14pts, GD +2
16. Manchester United – 14pts, GD -7
17. Wolves – 13pts, GD -8
18. Ipswich – 9pts, GD -17
19. Leicester – 7pts, GD -23
20. Southampton – 5pts, GD -24

Blimey that wasn't hard to find.

Well we were 14th when ETH was sacked, and ETH had a pretty easy fixture list up until that point. All things considered-- we are about equally as garbage under ETH. The warning signs were there. WE went from a +15 goal differential in ETH's first season to -1 in his 2nd season, to -7. ETH making the roster worse while spending 400mm was quite the accomplishment.

 

[lex talionis]

We need to stick with Amorim through the end of the season. At the end of the season, an internal review of what went wrong and right is warranted and although at this point I would say give him a new and full season, the right decision might well be to sack him. But not now. And let's see what his case will be at season's end or if he even wants to keep the job.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

I don’t think getting rid of deadwood improves the squad. We need to make smart moves for incoming players, top talents like Wirtz, a top shelf striker, more athletic wingers.

The deadwood leaves, but the starting 11 even with Amad and Licha is subpar. I think selling Bruno is potentially better for us.

We think we’ve been getting rid of deadwood for the past 4 or 5 years but all we’ve actually been doing is slowly worsening the squad, piece by piece. To the point we now find it in.

 

[Blood Mage]

Friendly reminder Ole was the only manager post fergie to get consecutive top 4 finishes in their first full seasons

Yeah he did alright. Still wasn't the required standard though.

 

[bond19821982]

We think we’ve been getting rid of deadwood for the past 4 or 5 years but all we’ve actually been doing is slowly worsening the squad, piece by piece. To the point we now find it in.

Very true actually.

I would kill myself to get that squad of Ole's tenure

Pogba, Matic, Bruno,Lukaku,Martial, Mason, Rashford

 

[Marwood]

I don’t think getting rid of deadwood improves the squad. We need to make smart moves for incoming players, top talents like Wirtz, a top shelf striker, more athletic wingers.

The deadwood leaves, but the starting 11 even with Amad and Licha is subpar. I think selling Bruno is potentially better for us.

Given we can't buy without selling letting go of deadwood is crucial.

 

[Marwood]

We think we’ve been getting rid of deadwood for the past 4 or 5 years but all we’ve actually been doing is slowly worsening the squad, piece by piece. To the point we now find it in.

But that's on the incomings not being good enough. Nothing wrong with letting the players go. Or in some cases having no choice but to let them go.