We hired him knowing this was the deal. So we have an obligation. Judging him before we give him the tools would be wrong - and our finances are so bad we can't even do that yet. So let's just get this season out of the way before we go burning another manager.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Yes because, Jose's, Ole's and ETH's system worked so well. Trophies galore.
Yep, scouser is my bet.
Can we also stop with this bollocks about Leicester playing us off the park for 60 minutes.
First 40 minutes was awful from both teams and united had the majority of the ball. Leicester had a spell last 5 of the first half and first fifteen of the second. After he took Mainoo off there was only one team going to win it.
Leicester were trying to play the clock down on 65 minutes.. they were absolutely fecked at that point.
I'm not arguing united were great but we were all over them for the last 20 minutes. If it had gone to extra time we'd have won it there instead.
First 40 minutes was awful from both teams and united had the majority of the ball. Leicester had a spell last 5 of the first half and first fifteen of the second. After he took Mainoo off there was only one team going to win it.
Leicester were trying to play the clock down on 65 minutes.. they were absolutely fecked at that point.
I'm not arguing united were great but we were all over them for the last 20 minutes. If it had gone to extra time we'd have won it there instead.
My point is that you can implement a new culture/identity wo also changing to 343, which none of the top 10 clubs in Europe use btw.
Watching Madrid derby makes me think just how many light years are we behind them or any of the Europe's top teams...
Heck even mid table teams seem far away.
Heck even mid table teams seem far away.
He was hired out of sheer pannick because they thought City were in for him and would get there first if we didnt act quickly, Ashworth correctly advised the club against appointing him because his style didnt fit our team and was sacked for it.
I don’t see why people who say they have the patience can’t also admit that we should be doing better even with a new formation.
It’s clear to see we are playing terribly so fans have the right to expect better.
Nothing wrong with accepting it’ll take time but expecting to see improvements as the season goes on.
Garnaucho and Amad delivered at least 3 to 4 cut backs yesterday and even with Zirkzee and Hojlund on the pitch, they just don’t see the right runs, some are near post, some are far post some are delayed where you hold your run on penalty area and then finish.
I actually think right now, we have nothing to lose in the league, I’d try them together with Amad at Right 10 and Garnaucho as wide High left wing back, play Dorgu right wing back if he wants but I’m not convinced at him on the. Right, we need the whole team to create chances for both Zirkzee and Rasmus and see if we can build their confidence, let’s face it Ruben clearly doesn’t rate them and I’m sure both know that already, which is half the problem!
Both of them are young and unlike Mason Mount seem to be big strapping lads who can at least stay fit for most games. We just need them both to work on their movement and imposing their physicality on opposition defenders as well as their finishing.
My abiding memory of the first half is seeing our players running back towards our own goal when we had the ball. I know it happens before anyone starts, but it was more prevalent yesterday.
In fact that, Dorgu's debut and Barry's winner are about all I can remember (I had to Google who scored the equaliser). Could have been something to do with the ITV clowns making me switch off, but I tuned out of the previous game as well after about an hour. It's really not like, me but it's just been really dull.
I'm not anti-amorim, and more than happy to take the rough with the smooth, and have been a red for 49 years. Football for me is primarily entertainment, recently it’s been anything but.
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I think it runs much deeper than just that, I have a feeling Ashworth had started to embrace the woman and all age groups at youth level, all youth teams play 4231 or 433, players were being developed by the Academy Director; Nick Cox, and Dan Ashworth clearly liked ETH has he fought for him to stay and he’s a big fan of the English youth system for obvious reasons. Ashworth also recruited Christian Vivel as interim recruitment director, but he was previously technical director of Chelsea,
Vivell recruited S Kone, it’s clear that Berrada and Wilcox saw things very differently from Ashworth and they probably started to move Vivel to their thought process by saying Ashworth was a dinosaur and wanted Gareth Southgate or Graham Potter, as coach,
Wilcox now assuming most of Ashworth role , charged Vivell with recruiting young players to suit Amorim’s 3421 system as Wilcox assumed more of the DOF role
Jason Wilcox is an elite youth operator and recruiting specialist, especially with British talent, he probably had very different ideas to Ashworth. I think the main problem with recruiting Ruben Amorim, that both football experts at the time, Wilcox and Ashworth were told by Berrada, Brailsford and SJR that they would be appointing a young PL unproven coach because they were convinced he was the next big thing and they had very little say in opposing the idea.
Jason Wilcox went with the flow and Dan Ashworth vehemently disagreed because he was thinking about the whole club structure.
Ruben been here 3 months won 9 drawn 3 lost 8, been incredibly average to poor but look up the under 18 and under 21 recent formations and your see they don’t play Ruben’s 3421 system but instead 433 or 4231, that in its own right shows the issues the club still has internally that Ashworth tried to resolve but was pushed aside.
Yup, and 9 days before our next game so plenty of time to practice.
Are we allowed to expect improvement? Maybe a couple of players looking like they’ve played together before and putting a few moves together?
Well we got 4 trophies not including shields with those systems. And one more with LvG. Not galore and not league titles but it's not nothing.
You are probably right anyway. But someone in Spain could watch a select few of our 'big' matches and think we're alright too. And wonder why we're 15th(?) in the league.
FA Cup FInal we steamrolled city in the 1st half. Amad winner vs Liverpool shortly before. Beat city again this season, away. Played well vs Liverpool this season.
Thinking that as well watching it.
One thing that really does stand out compared to watching our games is the urgency and pace of how teams move the ball around the pitch.
So much zip on the passes and build up play.
None of this dilly dally holding on to the ball playing out from the back.
I'm sick of watching us pass the ball around the back and centre halfs taking 5 or 6 touches to pass a ball 5 yards.
If the academy is still playing 433/4231 formations then that is surely an indication that the club doesn’t see the wingback setup as the system going forward.
You have to wonder what on earth is going on behind the scenes. It’s a shambles just like it was pre Ineos.
This is a weird comment. Those managers actually made CL football and did win trophies (Ole unlucky not to win Europa).
Amorim almost has as many losses as wins for us. Which is not to put him down, but I don't share the optimism many have that he's playing some high level 4D chess that no one else understands.
Yep this is the route we will likely have to take. But as you say it won't be a quick road to take.
I personally don't think the squad is as bad as some seem to, and there's certainly enough for Amorim to work with with a few additions. If he's as good as he thinks and we hope he is then we should be able to finish at least in the top 6 next season.
It already happened mate.
And you are trying to make it less detestable by moaning and criticising other fans?
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One of the most annoying things about the caf is how people just make stuff up completely. Or have lots of people been saying this and I've missed it?
How long have ancelotti and simeone been the coaches with an actual footballing hierarchy?
We aren't actually, under Ten Hag/Van Nistelrooy we conceded 22 goals in 19 games. Or 1.15 goals per game.
Under Amorim we've conceded 28 goals in 17 games. 1.64 goals conceded per game.
You never know. He might get this right in the end.
You’re not allowed to write posts like this filled with common sense. Instead you should be wetting your pants about how awful we are and that we’re going to get relegated.
No doubt about us winning this one in the end.
Would you have given David Moyes another transfer window here?
David Moyes was not a very popular choice in the first place. Replacing the big man also. Never looked good for him.
I'm not making a direct comparison with Amorim. I'm pointing out the flaws of applying a hard and fast ruling like the one he was suggesting. Some managers don't deserve 3 transfer windows.
Yea, that post match was difficult to see he looked fed up and angry.
Bit of a mental take. We’re averaging just over a point a game and it’s not like we’re playing well and being unlucky, we’re getting dominated in most cases.
People saying he should be sacked are silly, unless we actually go into the relegation fight he should stay but he’s not doing well and there are lots of worrying signs. I feel like some people simply like him as a person compared to ETH and can’t stand the idea he could be useless (let’s face it, he might end up being our worst ever manager, he might also become one of our best we just don’t know yet).
They don’t use it because it’s a terrible system and our manager is seemingly wedded to it.
We are in big big trouble.
It’s an interesting theory. On two counts
1. Entirely plausible as a theory.
2. Mad that you’re pontificating in this much detail.
Fair play!
He has to get this team functioning to justify a summer rebuild for his system.
Leverkusen use it and just went a whole season unbeaten, as well as finishing among the top 8 in the CL league table now. Currently it's fair to see them as a top 10 team, just based on their performances and nothing else.