I can't argue with that unfortunately.
Roy Keane
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
No you don't. You do what is best for the team. We're Man Utd FC, not Ronaldo FC. Ronaldo should probably start most the time anyway, but this idea we should just build everything around him to the detriment of everyone else is the road to failure. That was Solskjaer's entire demise this season, given the net result was we were a worse side than last season.
Hasselbaink was having a good time.
Fair point. I don't think signing Ronaldo was necessarily a great move but I don't think it's a bad move either. Ronaldo was not going to help us win the league. His league record with Juventus and Real is not bad, but not great either. It's a bit of what we had with RvN, by far our best goalscorer but the team just wasn't dynamic enough until he was replaced with Saha fronting Rooney and Ronaldo. Ronaldo will get you more goals than anyone in the team but the argument is how many goals of the other front players that will eat up? It's a difficult argument but a valid one.
It could also be argued however that his match winning ability is needed to lift a trophy which the club is desperate for. It could also be argued that if, managed properly, he doesn't have to necessarily stop whatever progress we are making tactically. I know the Marketing argument is almost provocative at this point, but when your star starts to wane and you don't compete for the big trophies, buying a marquee player is not a bad plan to at least command the attention of the younger generation and keep your profile afloat. It's a sign of our regression but still probably a sensible move considering everything. I guess we will have to wait and see if those questions are answered but I really don't think his transfer either a no brainer nor a mistake.
Nobody thinks they would, I don't work fot Sky
Carragher is such a prick, his anti United bollocks is pathetic. United under Ole we’re not ever winning a league. Teams like Wolves and Southampton were playing us off the pitch due to better coaching. It’s not about who we signed, we had a manager so completely inept that only individual brilliance ever won us games.
What keeps me happy though is knowing that deep down Carragher knows he thinks Gerrard was a better player than Ronaldo. He could never admit it because he’d look as ridiculous as he is….but you know he thinks it.
What keeps me happy though is knowing that deep down Carragher knows he thinks Gerrard was a better player than Ronaldo. He could never admit it because he’d look as ridiculous as he is….but you know he thinks it.
Keane backed himself into a ridiculous corner about Ronaldo coming here for cups; he was obviously signed to boost us to a title challenge but that has fallen apart because our squad still has question marks and Ole and co were not up to the task. Considering he is famed for his brutal honesty he has a blind spot for ex-pros he played with and respects such as Ole and Ronaldo; it's ok to say the former wasn't good enough to manage United and it's ok to say the latter at 36 doesn't need to start every big game.
Conversely he gave Carrick both barrels as he clearly doesn't particularly care for him. He was entirely right in his criticism of Carrick's words but it contrasted starkly with the kid gloves he wore when dealing with Ole. At the end of the day he, Neville and everyone else can say what they like about whomever they like but there is a clear double standard at play.
Conversely he gave Carrick both barrels as he clearly doesn't particularly care for him. He was entirely right in his criticism of Carrick's words but it contrasted starkly with the kid gloves he wore when dealing with Ole. At the end of the day he, Neville and everyone else can say what they like about whomever they like but there is a clear double standard at play.
A lot of people saying Carragher put Roy in his place... really? Is Roy really wrong about what he's saying?
Did many people believe signing Ronaldo will win United the league? Of course not, our problems are far deeper than one player to fix, even if that one player is Ronaldo. Ronaldo gives us an edge in some matches, can get a goal out of nowhere, lifts the spirit around the entire club, can potentially create some magic to get us a cup trophy with a bit of luck. He's not here to win us the league, that's a bigger process... can having him help us get nearer that goal? Possibly. Other big names may come because of him, maybe our current players will learn from him etc.
Rashford played today instead. He was useless. Been useless for a good while now. He was SO useless that he nearly fecked up our first goal by running ahead of Sancho. Luckily, Sancho was composed enough to finish his dinner. Ronaldo to start ahead of Rashford against Chelsea away? Yes please.
And Carragher using that lazy argument of "United finished 2nd last year, now they wanna win the league with Ronaldo" bullshit. Everyone knows that the league position flattered us last year. Look how far behind City we were... it was never a title race. Helped by the fact that Liverpool's season derailed when they lost VVD for the season and at one point barely had a backline and Chelsea wasted half of their season with Fat Frank. Even finishing second, United were dropping points to mid-table and relegation fodder teams like Sheffield United and West Brom.
Carragher seems to have an agenda to passive aggressively put down Ronaldo every chance he gets... He's been talking nonsense about Ronaldo since he re-signed with the club.
Did many people believe signing Ronaldo will win United the league? Of course not, our problems are far deeper than one player to fix, even if that one player is Ronaldo. Ronaldo gives us an edge in some matches, can get a goal out of nowhere, lifts the spirit around the entire club, can potentially create some magic to get us a cup trophy with a bit of luck. He's not here to win us the league, that's a bigger process... can having him help us get nearer that goal? Possibly. Other big names may come because of him, maybe our current players will learn from him etc.
Rashford played today instead. He was useless. Been useless for a good while now. He was SO useless that he nearly fecked up our first goal by running ahead of Sancho. Luckily, Sancho was composed enough to finish his dinner. Ronaldo to start ahead of Rashford against Chelsea away? Yes please.
And Carragher using that lazy argument of "United finished 2nd last year, now they wanna win the league with Ronaldo" bullshit. Everyone knows that the league position flattered us last year. Look how far behind City we were... it was never a title race. Helped by the fact that Liverpool's season derailed when they lost VVD for the season and at one point barely had a backline and Chelsea wasted half of their season with Fat Frank. Even finishing second, United were dropping points to mid-table and relegation fodder teams like Sheffield United and West Brom.
Carragher seems to have an agenda to passive aggressively put down Ronaldo every chance he gets... He's been talking nonsense about Ronaldo since he re-signed with the club.
I think the Ronaldo signing was made with a view to magically getting us into title contention, but that says more about our board than about Ronaldo, Ole, Carrick etc. The size and prestige of United is not designed to go through slumps like we're suffering; we're in a no win situation where if we admit we're not title contenders we're laughed at as has-beens but if we insist we are at the top table we're laughed at as deluded. I prefer the former as at least it's true, unfortunately.
I agree the club felt this could be the case. Sadly as I watched us toil against Wolves and Southampton I knew our problems would only increase this season because I’m sure the players expected more than they were getting from Ole. DDG’s interview after the game was interesting as the interviewer mentioned how sad it was that a good man had lost his job and DDG just responded that we were conceding too many goals and now we are not.
I think the Ronaldo signing was made with a view to magically getting us into title contention, but that says more about our board than about Ronaldo, Ole, Carrick etc. The size and prestige of United is not designed to go through slumps like we're suffering; we're in a no win situation where if we admit we're not title contenders we're laughed at as has-beens but if we insist we are at the top table we're laughed at as deluded. I prefer the former as at least it's true, unfortunately.
Carragher's whole point is why did we sign him if not to improve on last season, it's not even down to the position we finished, it's the performance. We are playing worse than last season so far this season, so we haven't improved as a team despite adding Ronaldo, Sancho, and Varane, so something is going wrong.
The next point is then why would you sign Ronaldo if it's not about winning now. For years we've heard about a project at Utd under Solskjaer, but that goes out the window once you sign Ronaldo. Once you sign Ronaldo there is no project, it's about delivering now, otherwise why are you building your team around a 36 year old? It makes no sense. If Ronaldo isn't building us towards winning titles again, then there is no point to the signing, especially if it's going to be the detriment of others.
We have some great players who've worked under some great coaching set-ups. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs but I'd be surprised if our players didn't have reservations about the coaching they have been receiving for at least the past year and a half; we've looked less than the sum of our parts in games for a long time and I refuse to believe that would have continued to happen under a quality coaching regime.
As for Keane I understand he's in a difficult spot and that the lone gunslinger thing is somewhat of a confection, in that he has friends who he'd rather not shit on in public, but there is no doubt that the hedging he has done around Ole's managerial tenure is at complete odds with the 'jobs for the boys' comments he made earlier today. That isn't a good look for a bloke who trades off 'telling it like it is', same goes for Gaz to some extent.
Of course Ronaldo is here to try and win the league. We finished second last year and added Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane. Did we do that just to win the FA Cup?
According to Roy Keane then yes
Everybody has their own idea mate. It’s Okay, you can still find a room for our best player this season in the team surely. About Ole’s demise, IMO it’s a lot and far bigger than CR7 in the team or not.
Really hard to argue against. It's like saying PSG will consider Messi good value if they don't win the CL this or next season. There is no reason to buy them at this age unless you think they are the last piece of the jigsaw. We don't have even have to go far. Juventus also bought him with a clear target in mind, they'd been winning league titles but looked to cross that final hurdle with Ronaldo in the CL. They did not win it, they parted ways.
However, I still see a point to Ronaldo bringing value in terms of profile and ability to individually win big football matches. I would not normally, but I am making an exception since the club has not won or competed for a major title in so long now.
De Gea from his few interview this season doesn't seem like he cared for Ole and probably wanted him out for a while.
I just don’t think Keane wanted to go out on a limb and say CL as he knew it would be open to ridicule from Carragher being the scouse cnut that he is..
It could just be that they are all sick of answering questions about Ole. The reporters keep asking them all the same boring questions about him as if they're going to get an interesting answer.
At one point I remember both Keane and Neville were of the opinion that if United sign Kane and Sancho along with a defender they will be challenging for the title. Once Ole’s incompetency started becoming glaringly obvious they changed their narrative to United Saud is not good enough to win the league. And now he is ranting against Carrick, who is definitely not one of their old mates.
Well said.
Yeah I was amazed that he was so harsh on Carrick but then I remembered that they weren't teammates. It's a little silly that you can tell which manager was a teammate of which pundit based on their punditry.
G Nev said United would win the league making the 2 signings we did and Kane. I'm not sure Ronaldo is a downgrade on Kane yet he suddenly backtracked. Keane is similar, and you wonder how many signings to a team in 2nd would change his mind.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But considering the state we are currently in, form-wise, personnel-wise and morale-wise, a draw against an extremely solid Chelsea is a point gained - "park-the-bus" notwithstanding.
Spot on.
Carrick did a fantastic job in the last two games. Keano needs to see the context, and the context is that his mate was at the wheel for 3 years, spent more than the 3 managers before him, won fook all and left the squad in ruins. Carrick had no time to do anything but arrest the slump and he did really well. Now the Young Boys game is irrelevant, while we were pretty compact and organized against the chavs. If there is anybody to be blamed for our current state, it is Ole, not Michael.
We definitely signed ronaldo to win the league. I dont think many thought it would be enough but most thought we should at least be close at the end of the season.
If its easier to build a functional team without him then go for it imo. You'll get grief for putting any of our front line on the bench - it'll either be waste of 80m, no pace up front without Rashford, crazy to drop Bruno after him carrying us for 2 years or waste of youth in Greenwood. If the manager is winning matches and getting good performances no one will care. They'll all have their use over the course of the season anyway.
If its easier to build a functional team without him then go for it imo. You'll get grief for putting any of our front line on the bench - it'll either be waste of 80m, no pace up front without Rashford, crazy to drop Bruno after him carrying us for 2 years or waste of youth in Greenwood. If the manager is winning matches and getting good performances no one will care. They'll all have their use over the course of the season anyway.
Spot on. The way he want for Carrick after his interview was shocking. Carrick said what all manager would say and back their team. Ole did it all the time after much worse performances. You can tell why Keane would not be a good manager. Starting to lose respect for him as a pundit.
They are arguing about different things that are similar. If you separate it -
'United's aim was to win the league. That's why Ronaldo came.' - Carrick.
'Everyone knew we wouldn't win the league and our real expectations were to get top 4 and win a cup. Maybe if the stars were aligned we would win it but it would be like doing a Leicester. Maybe following season it would be more likely if we improved dramatically and bought wisely in summer' This is what Keane was trying to say but failed miserably.
Everyone surely agrees with both statements. Sure we are United and we should always aim for the league but every man and his dog knew it was highly unlikely and realistically we are going for top 4 and a cup.
Still think he is wrong about Ronaldo though. If he needs dropping then he should be dropped. Look at City - No striker. Look at Liverpool - Firmino, look at Chelsea - Drop Lukaku. Look at PSG - fkd. The game has moved on. Not saying you cant accommodate Ronaldo but just use him in the right games.
'United's aim was to win the league. That's why Ronaldo came.' - Carrick.
'Everyone knew we wouldn't win the league and our real expectations were to get top 4 and win a cup. Maybe if the stars were aligned we would win it but it would be like doing a Leicester. Maybe following season it would be more likely if we improved dramatically and bought wisely in summer' This is what Keane was trying to say but failed miserably.
Everyone surely agrees with both statements. Sure we are United and we should always aim for the league but every man and his dog knew it was highly unlikely and realistically we are going for top 4 and a cup.
Still think he is wrong about Ronaldo though. If he needs dropping then he should be dropped. Look at City - No striker. Look at Liverpool - Firmino, look at Chelsea - Drop Lukaku. Look at PSG - fkd. The game has moved on. Not saying you cant accommodate Ronaldo but just use him in the right games.
I laughed mynway through this as it was happening yesterday.
Having read some of the comments on here and rewatching it I don't see where Roy was wrong and how carragher "owned" him. In fact the couple of times JFH interv see he was agreeing with Roy.
Means and styles is an issue with Roy. And when getting angry he isn't as articulate but he was spot on with what he said about pretty much everything.
Having read some of the comments on here and rewatching it I don't see where Roy was wrong and how carragher "owned" him. In fact the couple of times JFH interv see he was agreeing with Roy.
Means and styles is an issue with Roy. And when getting angry he isn't as articulate but he was spot on with what he said about pretty much everything.
Keane is once again spot on with his analysis..and I love his passion, it’s clear why he was such a winner. You don’t bring in the best goal scorer in history to leave him sat on the bench against a top team like Chelsea. Keane knows a lot of our players don’t have the quality or temperament to compete at this level..which is result of appalling bad recruitment since SAF left…but Ronaldo isn’t one of them. He’s our top scorer and has a winner’s mentality and is fitter than anyone else on the pitch ..he needs to play!
Don’t forget that we qualified for the champions league with over 6games to go and we started resting players for the EUFA Cup final so we could easily have got 85points
All I’m saying is that we had a decent season last season and we have just crashed this season for whatever reasons
This team should be doing better than they are at the moment regardless of Ronaldo or not
what a crock of bollocks.We qualified with 4 games to spare, we got battered by Liverpool (resting no-one), we drew at home to Fulham with a full strength side, and we beat Wolves.
So one game, Leicester away we played a weakened side, the same Leicester who had beaten a full strength United 3-1 in the cup weeks earlier, so forgive me for not believing we somehow might have ended up with 11 points from those 4 games man.
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All JFH was short was a recliner and a few cans
He was talking a load of bollocks really. Keane himself lost sight of the point he was trying to make, he said the manager had the right to leave Ronaldo on the bench but should never leave him on the bench against Chelsea. He was talking in circles and getting angry for the sake of getting angry.
The decision to leave Ronaldo on the bench was fine, by the way. He's 36 years old, this is one of the busiest periods of the season and Ronaldo hasn't been firing against the big boys this season. A bit of context, we've been getting battered by City, Liverpool and even Watford in the last few weeks. We clearly don't have a good enough structure around Ronaldo to facilitate him in these big games yet, so throwing a tantrum about this after the game when we'd got a result was just bizzarre.
I think the aim was any trophy and a credible title challenge. After finishing 2nd no one had an appetite for top 4 as a target. Minimum acceptable target was at the very least to close the gap on the winners. Besides you don't bring in old players like Ronaldo expecting to win in 2 years when they're older and even more physically declined. Carrick was spot on if he said that and it's admirable he isn't trying to dodge expectations like Ole was so fond of. They didn't meet expectations and should be able to raise their hands and own up to the fact.
I wonder what Keane would have said if Bruno doesn't press and acts like a 5 year old because the manager decides to bring him in as a substitute. The reality is that Ronaldo is 37 years old and while he's still in top shape he will need to be rested. He can't act like that whenever such a thing happens.
I really would like to see a quote, video or whatever really where Keane talks about football management from any perspective other than put your best 11 on the pitch and make sure to run and tackle, and if things are not going well, kick someone to show some character. Even if he has a point, is that really the only dimension and only way of thinking this man understands? A supreme athlete and one of the most competitive characters I have ever seen- But also a bitter old man whining about the good old times because he is incapable of adapting and expanding his horizon. Club owners and agents are not stupid, the last time he was contacted about a job was from Kazakhstan. There is a reason for that.
BS. Who says he wants to manage anyone? He can talk as much bollocks as he likes in my view.I usually switch off once the game is over.
But it will be a cold day in hell before I side with a scrote like Carra over any ex United player let alone Keane.
Someone tell Keane we were 1-0 up when Ronaldo came up and also we weren’t beaten 5-0 with Ronaldo sitting on the bench . It’s as if sky told him to shake things up to click a few clicks online