and exchange their curly slippers for clogs...
Round of 16 | Romania vs Netherlands | Austria vs Turkey
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
and exchange their curly slippers for clogs...
Arda Guler looks a baller though
I suppose "demeaning" is a bit of a euphemism then <blindfoldsmiley>
I really miss that smiley
Only 2 matches for yelling death to serbs is a REALLY light ban surely?
Wrong cuisine!
And you don't joke about the Turkish cuisine. It is every bit as good as the most deluded Turks believe Arda Güler is.
They do the motorcade thing for weddings here
I dunno, I like the Dutch Turks (mostly), they're a lively bunch.
Hey man leave the shawarmas out of it. They did nothing to you
I thought the same but I just saw that it originated in the Ottoman Empire in the Anatolian peninsula.
You’re right, I took it too far.Hey man leave the shawarmas out of it. They did nothing to you
I have shawarma once a month and its a day of significance for me, I prefer mine with tahini and amba instead of yogurt though.
I hope the shawarma gods forgive me.
They desperately need to learn to relax a bit. In regards to football, they are just exhausting to be around. Especially in youth football. There’s just so much aggression involved with them. Back when I was playing as a kid, there were exactly two games I played, that needed to be stopped due to violence from the spectators. Both times it was against Turkish teams. Both times because the fathers were going mad on the sidelines over nothing.They do the motorcade thing for weddings here
I dunno, I like the Dutch Turks (mostly), they're a lively bunch.
A good friend of mine is a ref. He had a game one or two years back, that made it to the courts, because fans were attacking him and the rest of the refs. The club was banned for a year from all competitions. Again, it was a Turkish one.
I just don’t get it. And I have no idea why it is like that. But it’s just no fun and in German youth football, it’s a serious issue, that’s not restricted to certain regions.
There would be more euphoria on the streets of German cities if Turkiye won the Euros rather than Germany
Hoping for more unchecked nationalism from the Germans?
Austrians were also quite euphoric it seems:
https:/twitter.com/faznet/status/1808403391804068319
for reference:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...singing-nazi-slogan-at-party-on-german-island
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The hot headedness does sound familiar.
Also sounds like a problem from what you describe.
Ah our Dutch fringe nazi morons from Forum for Democratie also do the Gigi d'Agostino thing.
Funny how all these antiglobalist far right numpties globally act the same.
Indeed. "The powerful few are controlling our lives and wanting to force us to accept the way they think. Also government oversight - can't have people tell us what to do!!"
..."then let's have meetings the world over listen to people from other countries funded by a select few, to make everybody follows the same ideology. Let's also make sure we have dictator like strongmen controlling society with the ability to squash any dissent. And of course those people should have a network of other strongmen to have little meetings to share tips. Bonus pts for the more oppression they have already been able to accomplish. Freedom baby!!"
Yes, please, 7 or 8 portions
If only they were the better team. But that is football. It's just even worse it's the turks as it's a complicated relationship just as with the germans. I'd rather we lost to any other team but them but life goes on.
Just read this. What behavior are you referring to? Honestly dont know so im curious.
Probably referring to the fans behaviour in most big german cities and vienna where they are just loud, obnoxious, aggressive and destroying stuff. Also the whistles at every other national anthem. Also the nazi stuff.
I think it's well established now the turkish fans are not the most liked in europe.
I think it's well established now the turkish fans are not the most liked in europe.
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Turkish Nazi stuff? That doesn't even sound right. What's that supposed to be?
The grey wolf salute. Not nazi, but definitely fascist.
Banned for 2 matches. So here's your answer: we still care a bit about fascist saluts.
Well yeah like someone said nazi is a bit over the top but still a far right gesture and even banned here in austria. Can get a fine for 4k here.
Complicated relationship my arse. Most of us are at least a bit racists, it's not that complicated. If you don't believe me, read your post again where you claim you'd rather loose to anybody else.
Got it. As a foreigner who's been living in Turkey for quite some time, I don't really see the "fascism" people speak of. If anything, Turks are pushovers when it comes to issues that would have many Europeans foaming at the mouth e.g. unchecked immigration.
The threads about Demiral's gesture and Turkish/Austrian fan behaviour on reddit's main football sub were hilarious. One heated game of football and mentalities have gone right back to the days of the Ottoman Empire vs Habsburgs/Holy Roman Empire.
Hilarious or... depressing.
Banning Demiral for that??!?!
Granted, I’m in the US so my viewpoint will not get all the nuance but from what I read online, doesn’t seem like his gesture has universal meaning for facism.
Let the man play ball my goodness
Granted, I’m in the US so my viewpoint will not get all the nuance but from what I read online, doesn’t seem like his gesture has universal meaning for facism.
Let the man play ball my goodness
Is it enough if it has in several countries/regions?
How would you feel if somebody would salute al-Qaeda in a stadium? Members of the Grey Wolves have killed around 1,000 people over the decades and have been responsible for things like the bomb attacks in Bangkok 2015 or the assault on pope John Paul II.
The Grey Wolves are a forbidden organisation in Germany. Since the tournament is held in Germany could we at least agree it's not, well....clever?
Only if it is an offense in the country in question (Germany). If doing the grey wolves sign in Germany is a crime, then sure. But from what I read it’s not universal.
This is one of the reasons I’m not to pleased with UEFA on which political statements and stances are OK to take. Some conflicts are ok with them, others, not so much.
If we go down the rabbit hole long enough we can find some of the allied nations funding some of the same groups we in the West deem are terrorist organizations.
To the al-Qaeda point. If I saw it I would be like “this guy isn’t so sharp” but that might be all I think of it.
When it comes to things like bans, I’m very weary on setting a particular precedent. There are some groups that 100% of people would agree are terrible groups eg Nazis. But there are others that fall into a more grey area depending on your political/ideological leanings.
If mention of the Grey Wolves is forbidden in Germany then that is a different story. Again, from what I read it seemed like in Austria you can get fined for it but I haven’t seen any thing for Germany explicitly. Happy to be proven wrong.
Nazi salute is not illegal in most countries. In fact as far as I know that applies to only Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia and to an extent Switzerland and Sweden. Does that mean we should tolerate it in football stadiums?
You’re talking about legality which is a separate issue. Demiral’s not going to be arrested and taken to jail. You do know that we as humanity can oppose and stand against things that are not illegal? For example fascist salutes in football stadiums.
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From what i read, the symbol isnt forbidden in Germany and neither is the group itself. The group is just 'under supervision' in Germany. I do think it is ridiculous to do the sign when you play against a country where it actually is a forbidden sign/group though. Stupid thing to do and im glad to see that stupid actions have consequences.
It does fit in with our national team lucky streak. Lewandowski injured for Poland and Mbappe injured for France. A terrible game agaisnt Austria which actually got us one of the easiest roads to the final and now a Turkiye player suspended for a totally preventable and stupid action. Kokcu also suspended because a second yellow card. I believe he picked up his first yellow during some 'handbag' stuff when their last group game already ended.
Yeah couldn't agree more.
Regarding how Demiral et al. have made clear that they intend to use this salute for further provocation and escalation, this ban was the only choice they could make.
I wonder what are UEFA going to do when most of the Turkey fans do the salute at the next game?
It’s a grey area on what is considered a facist salute. Again, I’m across the pond and our sensibilities on what should be banned/not banned is different and I’m acknowledging this upfront.
Knowing how the Turkish are viewed in much of Western Europe, especially Germany, this ban whiffs of UEFA being selective on which issues it takes umbrage with.
This!
What happens if all of the Turkish players choose to do this salute? Is UEFA going to ban them all? What about during club matches that UEFA presides over eg UCL, EL etc.
I think they opened up a can of worms they didn’t need to. Now, I want them to keep that same energy/be consistent in their handling of things.
What comparable issues have been given a pass?