Round of 16 | Romania vs Netherlands | Austria vs Turkey

[stefan92]

It’s a grey area on what is considered a facist salute. Again, I’m across the pond and our sensibilities on what should be banned/not banned is different and I’m acknowledging this upfront.

Knowing how the Turkish are viewed in much of Western Europe, especially Germany, this ban whiffs of UEFA being selective on which issues it takes umbrage with.

How so? They also banned an Albanian player (Mirlind Daku) for anti-Serbian chants. So it's not as if Turkey are the only team suffering from UEFA taking measures.

Don't salute/celebrate murderers and you are fine, that's a pretty simple rule you can follow.

 

[do.ob]

This!

What happens if all of the Turkish players choose to do this salute? Is UEFA going to ban them all? What about during club matches that UEFA presides over eg UCL, EL etc.

I think they opened up a can of worms they didn’t need to. Now, I want them to keep that same energy/be consistent in their handling of things.

I don't think UEFA give a feck how many players they have to ban, especially now that everyone has been warned.

A majority of fans going fascist at a Euros game would be a first though, as far as I can recall.
I guess Turkey would get a heavy fine and a game or two without fans.

 

[top1whoisman]

It’s a grey area on what is considered a facist salute. Again, I’m across the pond and our sensibilities on what should be banned/not banned is different and I’m acknowledging this upfront.

Knowing how the Turkish are viewed in much of Western Europe, especially Germany, this ban whiffs of UEFA being selective on which issues it takes umbrage with.

Google "Grey Wolves Turkey" and make up your mind. Doesn't get much more than fascist than that. Nothing grey about it in my opinion. Except their name.

What have the Western Europeans or German fans/players done against Turkey in this tournament?

You've stated your ignorance of the dynamics in Europe multiple times, yet you seem to have strong opinions against the ban and claim that UEFA are not treating teams equally.

 

[MrWilliams]

Don't salute/celebrate murderers and you are fine, that's a pretty simple rule you can follow.

If we go deep enough down the hole then no one can celebrate anyone.

What have the Western Europeans or German fans/players done against Turkey in this tournament?

Not about the tournament specifically, but general attitudes to Turkish people. They are not viewed in a very positive light. In my travels in Europe, I’ve encountered people disparage them very publicly in regular conversation in ways that illustrate a deep held resentment to them as a people.

 

[MrWilliams]

How so? They also banned an Albanian player (Mirlind Daku) for anti-Serbian chants. So it's not as if Turkey are the only team suffering from UEFA taking measures.

If they did this, fair play. What I’d like is for them to be public as to what is considered “bad conduct/bad political speech” that warrants a ban.

 

[top1whoisman]

If we go deep enough down the hole then no one can celebrate anyone.

Not about the tournament specifically, but general attitudes to Turkish people. They are not viewed in a very positive light. In my travels in Europe, I’ve encountered people disparage them very publicly in regular conversation in ways that illustrate a deep held resentment to them as a people.

And judging by your previous posts this ban somehow ”whiffs of UEFA being selective on which issues it takes umbrage with.”

Or how exactly do you think UEFA should react to Turkish people not being viewed in a positive light? Or to European people holding resentment towards them?

As to the bolded part: So because humanity didn’t oppose something else, this shouldn’t be opposed either? Celebrate by all means, just don’t do fascist salutes. Pretty simple, eh?

 

[top1whoisman]

If they did this, fair play. What I’d like is for them to be public as to what is considered “bad conduct/bad political speech” that warrants a ban.

”Demiral was charged by Uefa - European football's governing body - for failing to comply with general principles of conduct, for violating the basic rules of decent conduct, for using sports events for manifestations of a non-sporting nature and for bringing the sport of football into disrepute.”

They are public about Demiral’s conduct not adhering to their rules. You know rules that the Turkish FA have agreed to as a UEFA member nation.

 

[Rapsel]

If we go deep enough down the hole then no one can celebrate anyone.



Not about the tournament specifically, but general attitudes to Turkish people. They are not viewed in a very positive light. In my travels in Europe, I’ve encountered people disparage them very publicly in regular conversation in ways that illustrate a deep held resentment to them as a people.

I have Turkish friends and they too have problems with many Turks living in other European countries still voting for Erdogan's AK party whilst not living there themselves. There are many Turks in NL, Germany, France etc that feel and act like loyal citizens to their "new" home countries (New between brackets because most have been here for generations) but there are also many that really never fully integrated.

That in a nutshell is the problem.

 

[stefan92]

Not about the tournament specifically, but general attitudes to Turkish people. They are not viewed in a very positive light. In my travels in Europe, I’ve encountered people disparage them very publicly in regular conversation in ways that illustrate a deep held resentment to them as a people.

Not even the Turks living in Turkey like the "Almanci" (=Turks living in Germany).

Of course that doesn't apply to all of them, but it's a fact that there is a significant amount of people who are neither well integrated in their actual country of birth (like Germany) nor are they welcome in Turkey/seen as real Turks. They fall through the cracks everywhere and they are usually those who have problems (and cause problems). It's a societal problem that was created by only seeing the Turkish immigrants as "guest workers" and never caring about making them part of the society.

 

[do.ob]

If we go deep enough down the hole then no one can celebrate anyone.

Heck yeah , brother! Y'all know the saying: first they came for the fascists.

 

[Rapsel]

Not even the Turks living in Turkey like the "Almanci" (=Turks living in Germany).

Of course that doesn't apply to all of them, but it's a fact that there is a significant amount of people who are neither well integrated in their actual country of birth (like Germany) nor are they welcome in Turkey/seen as real Turks. They fall through the cracks everywhere and they are usually those who have problems (and cause problems). It's a societal problem that was created by only seeing the Turkish immigrants as "guest workers" and never caring about making them part of the society.

@MrWilliams Now you have a Dutch and German response saying pretty much the same so there you go. Hope it answers your question.

 

[MrWilliams]

@Rapsel @stefan92 @do.ob @top1whoisman

Thank you fellas for your responses. Enlightening and educative, really appreciate it.

Spain vs Germany going on now. When done I’ll reply in depth.

Very engaging conversation. Appreciate different view points.