It's not a all or nothing argument. You have fast and slow DMs....just that you need a fast DM to face a fast AM is an argument that lacks merit, imo.
Tactically Monti has the right set up to perform to his peak in that role.
Roulette Draft final: MJJ vs 2mufc0
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It's not a all or nothing argument. You have fast and slow DMs....just that you need a fast DM to face a fast AM is an argument that lacks merit, imo.
Tactically Monti has the right set up to perform to his peak in that role.
Skills and playmaking from deep is hardly describing him as dynamic tho.
He was a good tackler from what I know about him and has a very good range but never seen being described as a dynamic player tbh.
I asked for examples of monti dealing with somebody who has the pace and guile of baggio to better determine if he is capable for the job. You mentioned McGrath so lets compare using the best criteria. PES Stats!!!
McGrath
Acceleration: 88
Response: 96
Agility: 78
Monti
Acceleration: 78
Response: 78
Agility: 76
I would say reaction skills and acceleration are the two key skills needed to stop a world class dribbler.
@2mufc0 might have switched his CBs, so he has Krol vs Baggio. Krol is a classy player and I reckon he can step out to tackle Baggio as needed.
And there are nothing in the sources saying he was lumbering and slow.
Don't be a dick
We have plenty videos of McGrath so know all about him. With all the old school players we have to use all sources available.
The reason is that Baggio will be operating in the space between Monti and Campbell, which means Monti would often have to backtrack and catch Baggio from behind where the lack of pace becomes an issue. Different from a CB facing him who will always be in front of him. I foresee a lot of such moves in the game where Baggio and Kopa can combine and split that defensive duo at which point Monti will have to chase Baggio with the two CBs occupied with Batigol. On the plus side, Campbell's pace allows him to come out and commit into tackle, but that's a very risky move and you'd ideally need a more intelligent CB (inb4 generalising black footballers parade) to make sure he takes the correct approach.
Does it matter he was 31, was one of the best players in the tournament and captained Austria's best ever side in 1934.
1. These stats argument lacks all merit.
2. OP clearly states Monti will handle Kopa and Krol will handle Baggio. So see no reason why you are banging on the wrong drum.
3. Again the stats you posted does not have Speed, why? Good positioning help a lot against against acceleration.
Stiles vs Eusebio, Gentile vs Maradona, lots of instances where a much pacier/agile AMs were marked out by not quite pacier/agile DMs.
The best example of containing Maradona was Matthaus against him multiple times and hardly he lacks energy, response and agility.
Stiles vs Eusebio is a big myth. Jack Charlton, Stiles and Moore all stepped up against him on that day and was never a one man job ala Vogts on Cruyff.
Gentile also played as a full back and didn't lack agility or pace and played in a much more physical era than the 30's.
I have tried to take out this turd that wouldnt flush from draft arguments before and will have to repeat it again. There's no fecking way in hell that a manager will leave just 2 CBs against a front two, let alone the calibre here. There will ALWAYS be a DM who will have to drop deep and shield them if the opposition is playing a duo up front.
I have no idea how this 'A will mark X, B will mark Y' job done kind of thinking comes in. Literally watch any match and see how a back 4 has to operate vs. a striker duo, not that it isn't obvious that no one ever is stupid enough to leave a 2v2 for 90 minutes.
Tactically, the crosses from fullbacks will be more helpful to Batigol than Baggio. For Baggio to be effective he needs to get the ball and effectively link with Kopa. 2mufc has put Monti to handle Kopa which is a good match. With Monti there, the link between Kopa and Baggio becomes more tedious and not really free flowing. I rate Krol high and he has enough to maintain a good defence.
Will Baggio be totally nullified? No.
Will he be the totally rampant? No.
From a pace, acceleration and dribbling perspective it does though. Not to mention you also have to deal with Kopa.
A versatile midfielder who could also play centre forward, Mr. Kopa was also gifted with spectacular dribbling skills and speed, qualities that have often lead to comparisons with Lionel Messi.
Just Fontaine and his 13 goals will ensure that he forever remains a staple of sports quizzes worldwide. But it was his deeper-lying partner up front, with whom he roomed and formed an almost telepathic relationship, who pulled the strings, beat defenders for fun and provided the millimetered passes as France brilliantly finished in third place. Named the player of a tournament which was won by a Brazil featuring Didi, Pele and Garrincha, Kopa won plaudits the world over and helped put France on the map as an international team.
Why are you flipping the argument halfway? MJJ was on about Baggio ripping Monti a new hole, which is nonsense. Monti has enough support in Gullit/WvH to not be exposed on this own. It will be a team effort in here too.
I can't be arsed to draw those double formation diagrams but when MJJ is attacking, WvH will have to primarily track Kopa, Monti has to close down Baggio and in case he gets beaten he needs to track him back, with the two CBs minding Baggio and the event of an incoming Baggio. That is what my experience of watching football tells me.
If the OP has set Monti on Kopa and left Baggio and Batigol against 2 CBs all game, then that's a match losing tactic for me.
Because speed is less important than acceleration, how does good positioning help when somebody dribbles past you?
Because krol is playing opposite baggio on the team sheet? Or do you think he will have enough time to come across from the left hand of the pitch, cross campbell and then mark baggio? Not to mention leaving kopa against monti, baggio against krol and batigol against campbell(who again is coming from the wrong side of the pitch) is suicide.
Also @MJJ what's the plan with Sammer? How are you handling Rivelino and Gullit?
Who is managing the game here, you or 2mufc?
Looks like you have totally ignored the playing managers tactics!That was me
. But yes, Gullit on that side is as good as you can have for support. The scenario I picked up there was a quick transition from someone like Sammer and Kopa slipping in Baggio behind Monti, or Baggio beating Monti himself. It's that move/combination that will cause a lot of trouble. Moreover as I don't see Monti and WvH syncing very well in terms of defensive understanding, it is difficult to visualise how Monti fits in between all these dutch total footballers, coming from an entirely different school.I wasn't sure where Baggio was going to play tbf, they can easily switch during the game.
Yea, as I said, that is my understanding on how the game will go. I doubt it make a change as these games are prone to 1v1 lockdowns, something that is completely unrealistic.Who is managing the game here, you or 2mufc?
Who is managing the game here, you or 2mufc?
Thats how the four are going to line up, kopa prefers attacking down the inside right channel. So is Monti going to follow him there and Krol is coming across to mark baggio?
Dafuq are my fullbacks doing? and why is Monti not on Baggio
Thats how the four are going to line up, kopa prefers attacking down the inside right channel. So is Monti going to follow him there and Krol is coming across to mark baggio?
Voronin,Tigana,Sammer are good enough to handle those two. With no centre-forward, sammer can easily push up and contribute a lot as a defensive midfielder.
Yeah what i thought, and plays right into my tactics to be fair.
That was me
Yeah, it still is a practical scenario. For me I see Monti playing between Kopa and Baggio cutting off supply lines. In this formation, Baggio is more of a Second Striker and needs to be upfront, but given his game, he'll be all over the place.
I see a tough tactical battle either way. Don't really see any obvious advantages to either side.
Monti is on Baggio, that was to show that Monti won't be following kopa like your tactics and EAP are suggesting.
It was just to demonstrate that the positioning of the four(krol/campbell/vvh/monti) is at odds with the team sheet.
I would also add that Gullit will also contribute to the midfield battle, the man was a machine, and when he picks it up from deep and runs into space he won't be stopped.
Well if the tactics are to bank on stoickhov and jairzinho(the poor goal-scorer he is) to score against cannavaro(the wall), kohler(best stopper of all time), zanetti(cant ask for a better defensive fullback) and brehme(a GOAT LB) than fair enough. It plays right into your tactics.
Please explain how the tactics match the teamsheet.
The plan is for Monti on Kopa though, like i said i wasn't sure where Baggio was going to play. My system isn't rigid players are interchangeable.
Come on you know it's not that simple, just saying someone is a GOAT won't stop the threat.
But Kopa prefers the inside right channel where van hanegem is located, if monti is following kopa you have no one on the inside left channel where I have tigana + baggio.
Two against four rarely works, specially if the four are of the quality I have. I can list why brehme would be able to do his job but saying GOAT gets the point across since we are all familiar with his qualities.
Also that tactic sheet is wrong as Gullit and Rivelino won't be standing like statues in the opposition half, it's like the top half of my team doesn't exist.
I see that too as mentioned above, and for that scenario I am not convinced that Monti and WvH can stop Kopa feeding Baggio a few times in the game. I have a lot more trust on WvH putting in a great shift in keeping tabs on Kopa (Kopa on the right and WvH on the left means they will by and large be next to each other), than Monti being able to cut Kopa's service to Baggio or Batigol for that matter. But more to Baggio who specialises in utilising those spaces between the defensive lines and is a nightmare to mark. If Baggio drops too deep it will become easier for Monti as he can charge on the front without having to look over his shoulders, but with Baggio playing as a typical SS, I would say that Monti will struggle to close gap.
The players won't stay in the same positions, i already explained they can switch, the system is about interchanging. When one player moves to another position another moves to fill in.
I already said the tactic sheet was to focus on the specific role of four players, its not possible to submit a sheet without everyone on the pitch thats why I just posted them where I can get the point across.
Not sure.why a DM needs to be pacy. Agile, yes, but pacy, no