Roulette Draft final: MJJ vs 2mufc0

[harms]

MJJ--------------------------------------------------------2mufc0​

Tactics MJJ

Formation- 5-2-1-2 on paper but in reality, the side can easily and will transition to 4-3-3 at times with both kopa and baggio comfortable outwide.
Defensive Line- Normal
Playing Style- Direct, counterattacking football
Assistant Manager- Tuppet

Attack

A very fluid front three centered around two of the greatest players of the 90s in Batistuta and Baggio with one of the best french number 10s of all time, Kopa. All of my front three are excelled playing in an attacking trident and a 5-2-1-2 formation suits their attacking talents perfectly. Kopa's preference for the right wing augments baggio's for the left and both will cause havoc by drifting wide to double team the fullbacks and dragging centrebacks out of position.

Midfield

A very technically sound midfield which can retain the ball or do a lot of damage with quick transitions. Tigana was a complete box to box midfield player, excelling in quick transitions and one-two play and Voronin is the perfect DM to partner Tigana and kopa. Defensively solid but with excellent ball skills. The ball-playing ability of my midfield means that any one of midfield can play a game-changing pass if afforded enough time.


Defense

What's better than a German Wall? An Italian-German Wall with an Argentine Tractor. Three of my defenders can make an argument for being GOATs in their respective roles and position and the other two are the only defenders to win the Balon D'or in the last forty years.

Why I would win

• An impenetrable defense marshalled by Sammer with the best stopper and one of the best defenders in the history of football. Outwide I have two of the best wing-backs ever in Zanetti and Brehme.
  
• Campbell is the worst CB on the pitch and doesn't fit in an all time draft context.
• 2mufc0's offense doesn't have the goal-scoring needed here with none of his attackers being particularly clinical.
• Brehme + Kohler is as good a flank as you can ask for to neutralize Jairzinho, infact brehme by himself is well suited for his direct style.
• Ditto with Zanetti and Stoichov.
• On the other hand, kopa + baggio + batistuta will be too much for Campbell, Krol and Monti.
• Tuppet.

Tactics 2mufc0

Formation 4-2-2-2

In this match I felt it was necessary to counter some of the the pressure points in MJJ's team so I'm going to go with a Magic Square 4-2-2-2 to isolate specific players and areas. The overarching idea is create a sense of 4v3 superiority in midfield - the trio of Kopa, Tigana and Voronin against the Square of Gullit, Rivelino, Van Hanegem, Monti to both control proceedings and disrupt his build up play. In doing this I think Sammer will also have to think twice before stepping up considering both Rivelino and Gullit are operating close to the boundary of midfield and the final third. Even though it's not a pure total football team any more, a lot of the principles regarding technical capability, fluidity and ability to interchange are retained with a beautiful blend of Dutch and Brazilian players.

Defence

Starting at the back Van der Saar commands the box an excellent goalkeeper as well as being great on the ball, his distribution is up there with the best. At the centre of the defence Krol will keep a close eye on Baggio as a legendary sweeper, and his interceptions and passing will be instrumental in building from the back and launching quick counters. Campbell partners him as the athletic and robust stopper able to cover for him - ideal blend of ice and fire, and Sol's uncompromising skill-set will be helpful against the physicality of Batistuta and his proficiency in the air - allowing Krol to mop the floor. To add, Campbell has a good record vs. Batistuta - with the latter substituted out in the 1998 World Cup as well as the 2002 World Cup, converting only from the penalty spot after Seaman's foul vs. Simeone:

Team details

Argentina: Roa; Vivas, Ayala, Chamot; Zanetti, Almeyda, Simeone (Berti 91); Ortega, Veron; Batistuta (Balbo 68), Lopez (Gallardo 68).

Argentina: Pablo Cavallero, Mauricio Pochettino, Walter Samuel, Diego Placente, Javier Zanetti, Diego Simeone, Juan Sebastian Veron (Pablo Aimar 45), Juan Pablo Sorin, Ariel Ortega, Gabriel Batistuta (Hernan Crespo 60), Kily Gonzalez (Claudio Lopez 64)

Nilton comes in at left back and Carlos Alberto takes up the opposite full back position, both are able to play-make from wide. They were are also fairly watertight defensively, providing the cover required when defending. Both were very intelligent players too and will time their forward runs and Nilton will usually not progress much further than the half-way line. As a testament to their greatness, they were elected to the World Team of the 20th Century, which is probably the highest honour out there, and ideally suited for a head-to-head on the flanks vs. Zanetti and Brehme:

Midfield

At the base of the midfield is Argentinian/Italian maestro Luis Monti, not only a great DM and marker, but also a perceptive passer of the ball to more advanced players - here he's primarily tasked with putting the brakes on Kopa given Monti's profile as a disruptor. To the left of him is van Hanegem the consummate Dutch box-to-box play-maker in the midfield looking to pick up the ball and play the attackers through. To add, he was also a battler and will engage in individual duels off-the-ball as required mostly against Tigana.

Gullit is the third midfielder and has a lot most license to attack and disorient Voronin in tandem with Riivelino, picking the ball up from deep positions he will cause havoc running at the opposition defence and making those off the ball runs into the box behind the forwards. Almost parallel to him is Rivelino, an integral part of Brazil's best team ever he was one of those players who can dribble you in a phone booth and was an example for the younger generation. He possessed enormous flair and talent with a cannonball of a shot (named “The Atomic Kick”).

I think overall the midfield is well structured with each player knowing their tasks, and being proven at a great level in said tasks - while also being proficient in multiple phases as an all-rounder. One of the trio of Van Hanegem, Gullit and Rivelino is going to have a free run based on numbers alone - and given the skill of all three I think any one them could be key difference makers.

Attack

For this game I'm going with a dual-forward setup to hopefully peel MJJ's central defence inside out instead of playing into his hand by having a 9 lead the line and getting countered by Kohler.

Stoichkov comes in as the forward on the left...

"He had an explosive turn of pace and supreme skill at speed. Many modern players sprint forward before slowing down to pass the ball or dribble past an opponent, but Stoichkov did everything at full pelt. With his short, stocky frame, it looked as if he was being filmed at 1.5x speed.

Stoichkov also had a fantastic touch, confident using every part of his boot to finish chances. The number of chips he scored indicate not only that ability to think at speed but also to carry out his next move before defenders or goalkeepers had even considered them a possibility. That afforded a powerful striker a crucial element of surprise.

The best way to perceive this extraordinary range of Stoichkov’s finishing is by watching the first two goals in this video clip. Both are very similar moves, the ball across the box for the striker running through the middle at pace. The first time Stoichkov goes for power, striking the ball with all his might into the top of the net. For the second, he casually slides it into the corner with his instep. How can you defend against that?"

And Jairzinho on the right - offering a lot of similar characteristics.

“Jairzinho was a bit like Neymar, playing from the side or centre and striking with precision. He had speed, strength and a lot of skill. When we played him a long ball, he was spectacular. He bumped, gained his space with his body, and still managed to shoot with skill.” 

Thoughts on the game

In my opinion both teams are fairly strong at this stage of the tournament as expected and it could very well come down to specifics or minor organisational details.

• I have arguably the best DM in the pool (in the absence of Rijkaard, Desailly and Varela) to patrol the areas where Kopa will usually operate - which should slow him down considerably in theory. On the other hand, one of Gullit or Rivelino is going to afforded more freedom unless Sammer permanently steps up and goes into marking duty. There is great scope for Rivelino or Gullit to exploit positional or spatial lapses - and I would be wary of either given their attacking prowess.
• Kohler is particular was famous for facing target strikers - he was a great defender is general, but that was his expertise. Here he will be facing mobile forwards with lower center of gravity and higher speed or evasiveness.
• Flank battle is likely to be a wash so whatever MJJ needs to do should be through the middle and I've suitably fortified that area from that tactical standpoint - especially with regards to limiting Sammer from stepping up.
• MJJ's team might be a bit short on creativity especially with Monti keeping an eye on Kopa and playmaking Brehme facing Carlos Alberto on the flank. The onus might fall on Baggio and in this draft pool I can't think of a better and more intelligent defender to mind him than Ruud Krol from a physical or mental standpoint.

 

[Indnyc]

Good luck @MJJ and @2mufc0

 

[MJJ]

Interesting tactics 2mufc0, not sure its the best one against a side looking to play counter-attacking football though.

 

[2mufc0]

Interesting tactics 2mufc0, not sure its the best one against a side looking to play counter-attacking football though.

Why not?

 

[MJJ]

Why not?

No central striker, both Jairzinho and Stoichov will struggle to play with their back to goal thus you are looking to play the ball on the floor and pass the ball in space. Given the level of my defense, I dont think much space will be available. Thus, your option is to build up the ball from the back in a congested middle or use gullit as a target man of sort.

Santos was also right footed so he isnt the fullback you would want in the role you have.

 

[Enigma_87]

Assistant Manager- Tuppet

Why I would win

• Tuppet.

 

[2mufc0]

No central striker, both Jairzinho and Stoichov will struggle to play with their back to goal thus you are looking to play the ball on the floor and pass the ball in space. Given the level of my defense, I dont think much space will be available. Thus, your option is to build up the ball from the back in a congested middle or use gullit as a target man of sort.

Santos was also right footed so he isnt the fullback you would want in the role you have.

The tactic isn't to play with a classic central striker so a backs to defence type player isn't required. The system is based on movement and passing, plenty of teams have played this way. Move, quick passing, triangles etc. I guess watching Jose too much has made us have 1 dimensional view where we have to play with a target man.

Secondly, Nilton is fine there he made his name in that position, so don't see why him being right footed is an issue.

Breheme was alro right btw, so do you see the same issues with him?

 

[2mufc0]

The ghost of Tuppet lives on.

 

[MJJ]

The tactic isn't to play with a classic central striker so a backs to defence type player isn't required. The system is based on movement and passing, plenty of teams have played this way. Move, quick passing, triangles etc. I guess watching Jose too much has made us have 1 dimensional view where we have to play with a target man.

Secondly, Nilton is fine there he made his name in that position, so don't see why him being right footed is an issue.

Breheme was alro right btw, so do you see the same issues with him?

Its not about having a target man, its how are you going to play like barca who played without a target man but focused on retaining possession and building from the back. Your team isnt really that well suited for that type of football imo.

Secondly, brehme was probably one of the most two-footed players in the history of fullback and is perfectly well suited to a left wing-back role whereas you are playing nilton with specific instructions not to cross the halfway line. That makes defending against your left flank easier, ideally you would want somebody who stretches the field given the Magic Square formation.

Although the lack of width wont be an issue if rivelino or stoichov regularly peel out wide but that leaves you short of bodies in the centre.

 

[MJJ]

I also think this is a match where there wont be a lot of chances for either side, tigana,voronin,sammer will be enough to shackle van hanegem and monti leaving you short of playmakers at the back and I none of your attacking four are particularly clinical or have a good goal scoring record.

 

[Enigma_87]

From first sight I really don't have issue with @2mufc0 left flank. Nilton/ Stoichkov and Rivelino is as good as it gets.You get plenty of defensive solidity, pace in Stoichkov and creativity and trickery in Rivelino.

The downside in 2mufc0 team is that Monti/van Hanegem base. It's too static for my liking.

 

[2mufc0]

Its not about having a target man, its how are you going to play like barca who played without a target man but focused on retaining possession and building from the back. Your team isnt really that well suited for that type of football imo.

Secondly, brehme was probably one of the most two-footed players in the history of fullback and is perfectly well suited to a left wing-back role whereas you are playing nilton with specific instructions not to cross the halfway line. That makes defending against your left flank easier, ideally you would want somebody who stretches the field given the Magic Square formation.

Although the lack of width wont be an issue if rivelino or stoichov regularly peel out wide but that leaves you short of bodies in the centre.

Have to disagree, all players are technical and good passers, if these lot are not capable of this style of football i have no idea who is.

So Nilton being right footed isn't a problem, not sure why you brought it up.

And width is definitely not an issue, that front four are all capable of working the channels. And you haven't got anyone apart for your wing backs to provide any width, and i'm confident of Nilton and Alberto being able to hand them 1 v 1, as they were great overlappers but not tricky dribblers.

Centre mid won't ever be vacant with WVH and Monti there. Plus when Rivelino drifts wide Gullit can come central and vice versa, it's a fluid system.

 

[MJJ]

From first sight I really don't have issue with @2mufc0 left flank. Nilton/ Stoichkov and Rivelino is as good as it gets.You get plenty of defensive solidity, pace in Stoichkov and creativity and trickery in Rivelino.

The downside in 2mufc0 team is that Monti/van Hanegem base. It's too static for my liking.

It depends on how often stoichkov and rivelino will stick to the centre or peel out wide imo. If its the former, he needs a defender who will overlap a lot more rather than staying by the half way line. If its the latter, he has nobody to get on the end of the chances.

 

[2mufc0]

I also think this is a match where there wont be a lot of chances for either side, tigana,voronin,sammer will be enough to shackle van hanegem and monti leaving you short of playmakers at the back and I none of your attacking four are particularly clinical or have a good goal scoring record.

Already dealt with this issue in the writeup. Gullit and Rivelino are able to drop deep when required, playmakers from deep isn't an issue as both fullbacks are great at this as well as Krol.

Stoichkov was a great goalscorer, Jairzinho, Rivelino and Gullit scored plenty too.

 

[2mufc0]

From first sight I really don't have issue with @2mufc0 left flank. Nilton/ Stoichkov and Rivelino is as good as it gets.You get plenty of defensive solidity, pace in Stoichkov and creativity and trickery in Rivelino.

The downside in 2mufc0 team is that Monti/van Hanegem base. It's too static for my liking.

Monti is primarily there as a defensive screen and he's needed for Baggio and Kopa in those areas, WVH provide the link up, they are surrounded by athletes who can make the best use of their passing.

 

[MJJ]

Have to disagree, all players are technical and good passers, if these lot are not capable of this style of football i have no idea who is.

So Nilton being right footed isn't a problem, not sure why you brought it up.

And width is definitely not an issue, that front four are all capable of working the channels. And you haven't got anyone apart for your wing backs to provide any width, and i'm confident of Nilton and Alberto being able to hand them 1 v 1, as they were great overlappers but not tricky dribblers.

Centre mid won't ever be vacant with WVH and Monti there. Plus when Rivelino drifts wide Gullit can come central and vice versa, it's a fluid system.

Kopa and Baggio are equally comfortable as wingers as attacking midfielders.



Zanetti was one of the best dribblers around in his prime so thats clearly not true.

T

he owner was mesmerised by the dribbling skills of a young Argentinian named Zanetti, who weaved through opponents as though the ball was part of his anatomy.

Zanetti's new Inter team-mates would be similarly impressed. "At his very first training session, we were doing a possession exercise," recalled his then captain Giuseppe Bergomi. "He never lost the ball, it was always glued to his foot. That day I knew he was going to make history."

 

[MJJ]

Already dealt with this issue in the writeup. Gullit and Rivelino are able to drop deep when required, playmakers from deep isn't an issue as both fullbacks are great at this as well as Krol.

Stoichkov was a great goalscorer, Jairzinho, Rivelino and Gullit scored plenty too.

Stoichkov at his barca prime scored 76 goals in 151 games i.e. 1 goal every two games compare that to baggio 78 in 141 or batistuta 168 in 269 games(a goal every sixty minutes).

Jairzinho with brazil scored 33 goals in 81 matches, Rivelino 70 in 236 and Gullit 38 in 125 for their respective clubs. Baggio has almost scored the same amount of goals in a year which gullit scored in 7.(30 goals in 92/93).

 

[harms]

Santos was also right footed so he isnt the fullback you would want in the role you have.

Santos is fine here. For that left side 2mufc has van Hanegem, Rivelino and Stoichkov, all of whom had experience of playing out wide.

 

[MJJ]

FANTASISTA LEGENDS: ROBERTO BAGGIO

Baggio…oh yes…oh yes…oh yes!!! What a goal by Baggio! That’s the goal they’ve all been waiting for!

The ‘they’, the excitable ITV commentator was referring to, was the whole of Italy during World Cup Italia ‘90, as an entire nation had waited impatiently in anticipation, then watched in expectation, as their latest ‘golden boy’ – a magical fantasista – made himself known to a global audience. Making his first start of the finals, and wearing the no.15 shirt, Roberto Baggio announced himself to the world, gracefully gliding through the Czechoslovakian team from the halfway line, before sending the goalkeeper the wrong way to score. Collapsing to the turf, for a brief moment, all the intense pressures of being world football’s ‘next big thing’ had been lifted; Roberto Baggio had arrived.

In truth, Baggio had ‘arrived’ much earlier. In Italy, he was already a star attraction in Serie A, where he had been lighting up the league for the previous few seasons in the city of Florence, with Fiorentina. His mercurial talent would remain a fixture in the Italian top-flight for the next 14 seasons (playing 18 in total). But for all those who witnessed his magic and the outstanding feats he achieved during this time, the extraordinary thing is, he played the majority of his career suffering with injury. You see, Baggio’s story was almost over before it had even begun.

One of eight children, Roberto Baggio was born in Caldogno in the north-east of Italy, near Vicenza. As a young boy he showed an early interest in football. When not using his parents’ bedroom as a makeshift pitch (where the goals consisted of a double bed and a wardrobe), he was outside, often disappearing until dusk playing with a ball, leaving his father to go searching for him on his bike. The youngster was soon scoring in real goals as his talent was spotted by village club, Caldogno, at just 9 years old. By the age of 11 he was on the radar of nearly every club in Italy, and was soon starting to be hailed as a prodigy after scoring 45 goals in just 26 games. After scoring 6 in one game, scout Antonio Mora took him to Vicenza who paid Caldogno just £300.

The step-up in level made no difference to the now 13 year old Baggio, who hit a whopping 110 goals in 120 youth-team games before being promoted to the first team, aged just 15. Now seeking to emulate his footballing idol – Brazilian fantasista, Zico – his form for Vicenza (then in Serie C-1) during only his third senior season, helped win promotion – but they would have to play in Serie B without their young star. Baggio’s stock had risen to such a level that two Serie A giants began chasing his signature, with Juventus confident of securing a deal. However, a last minute bid of around £1.5million from Fiorentina ensured they won the race.



What should have been a celebration soon turned to tragedy however as just two days before the deal was finalized, Baggio shattered the cruciate ligament in his right knee whilst playing against Rimini. Aged just 18, with the world at his feet, he was victim to a career-threatening injury and was told by doctors he would never play again.

There was cause for optimism however. Fiorentina chose to honour the deal and stood by their new signing, sending him to France for pioneering surgery – thus ensuring a strong bond between club and player that would be hard to break in the future. But these were the darkest days of Baggio’s life. Mentally, they helped define him as a person and gave him a great inner-strength and belief, but physically, the injury would remain with him for the rest of his playing career. His pure love for the game though, would simply not allow him to quit:

I underwent surgery that was very risky at the time. They had to drill through my kneecap and reattach all the ligaments with 220 internal stitches. I am allergic to the most powerful painkillers, so I was in absolute agony day and night for months afterwards – but I held on because of my passion for the game.

Baggio missed nearly all of the next two seasons through injury, and in truth he never fully recovered. Upon retirement he stated that if he were to play only when he didn’t feel pain, he would have stepped on the pitch “only two or three times a year”. The incredible will he showed to ‘never give up’ also came from a more surprising source during his recovery, which again marked him out as being different from the rest.

In a staunchly Catholic country, he converted to Buddhism. At just 21 years old he made the choice whilst in the eye of the public, joining the Soka Gakkia order which emphasizes the importance of self-motivation over blind obedience. Its teachings also encourage contribution to the well-being of friends, family, community and the promotion of peace, culture and education. Followers are devoted to ‘inner transformation that enables people to develop themselves and take responsibility for their lives.’ Baggio would eventually have one of the order’s mantras embroidered on his captain’s armband.

Once playing in the famous purple of Fiorentina, Baggio quickly became the fans idol and embarked on a happy couple of years. He made his debut against Sampdoria and scored his first goal against the champions elect, Napoli in 1987. He continued the next three seasons in superb fashion as his style of play delighted all who watched. Even for a fantasista, he scored at a rapid rate with almost a-goal-every-other-game ratio.



But it wasn’t the quantity of the goals which stood out – it was the quality and variety. Spectacular, and from all angles and areas, he’d score curlers, volleys, dribbles through the defence (including the keeper), free-kicks, penalties and one-on-ones – finishing was never a problem for Baggio. So natural and cool in front of goal, the Italian’s said he had ‘ice in his veins’. But it wasn’t just goals – as a fantasista he also created so much more. This led former Argentine and Viola midfielder Miguel Montuori to famously claim in the ’88-’89 season that Baggio was:

…more productive than Maradona. He is without doubt the best number 10 in the league.

A call-up to the Azzurri naturally followed, making his debut in 1988 versus Holland, and scoring his first international goal five months later during his first start against Uruguay with a trademark free-kick. At the end of that season he married his childhood sweetheart Andreina, and it was also during this period he was christened with one of the most famous nicknames in the game. Tying his already long hair at the back ‘Il Divin Codino’ was born – the divine ponytail.

Firing Fiorentina to the UEFA Cup final but narrowly losing to Juventus, Baggio was now a huge star in Italy and the rest of Europe was taking note. To the disbelief of the Viola faithful however he was sold, against his will, for a world record transfer fee to Juventus, just prior to the 1990 World Cup finals. The record £8 million move sparked three days worth of riots in the city of Florence, such was the fans disappointment of selling their idol to a hated rival. The ‘match of poison’ would now take on even greater significance. Roberto was preparing for the finals with the Azzurri at Coverciano but was sickened by the violence, and left feeling betrayed by the club’s stance to portray him as the villain in seeking the move.



Baggio would ensure the truth was known at the next meeting between the two clubs however, as the Italian saying goes: Sempre nel mio cuore – you’ll always be in my heart. Proving this to the Fiorentina fans, he refused to take a penalty for Juventus against them (he was the designated taker), which Juve duly missed. He was then substituted but left the pitch at the Artemio Franchi stadium clutching a thrown Viola scarf.

After his world record move, Baggio had an initial frosty relationship with the Juventus faithful – the penalty incident in Florence hadn’t exactly endeared him to his new public. However his sensational abilities soon won them over. During his five seasons in Turin Baggio was confirmed to be what many already knew – he was the greatest player on the planet and thus became a global superstar, destined for legendary status. In 1993 he was voted World and European Player of the Year after leading Juventus to UEFA Cup glory (his first major trophy) and in 1995 he finally won the Serie A title (alongside a Coppa Italia).

Such was his play – in conjuring fantasy on a football pitch at a time of ever growing athleticism and dour tactics – fans around the globe adored him. He was the reference point to everything still magical in the game, a reminder to when skill ruled over physicality. A perfect example of the number 10 shirt; a symbol for the fantasista.

The angels sing in his legs, former Fiorentina boss Aldo Agroppi famously said, such was his beautiful style of play.

The emergence of Alessandro Del Piero, alongside the ‘tactical differences’ coach Marcelo Lippi wanted to implement, led to the sale of Baggio to AC Milan.



Although he won his second Serie A title here, he was never fully appreciated – again suffering with injuries, and against the coaches who preferred the more athletic, over natural skill. The number 18 shirt on his back looking as alien as the great fantasista himself sitting on the bench. His frustration growing at the way football was losing its artistry, Baggio stated:

It’s better to have 10 disorganised people who can play football than 10 organised people who just run.

Disillusioned by the big clubs, Roby chose mediocre Bologna to showcase his talents next. Feeling ‘born again’, complete with a closely shaven head and unshackled from the tactical leash, he was given free reign and promptly had his best scoring season in Serie A, hitting the net 22 times in just 30 matches. Such was his form, a recall to the national team for the 1998 World Cup was preceded by one last ‘big’ move to Inter. Initially things looked promising at his second spell in Milan. However once again injuries, along with the return of coaching nemesis Marcelo Lippi, ensured Baggio had another miserable time. After refusing to be ‘a spy in the dressing room’ for Lippi, the coach tried to ‘destroy’ him. Baggio wrote in his autobiography:

The Lippi I had at Inter declared war on me. The problem was that even when I didn’t play, I was always on people’s lips whereas Lippi, try as he might, just couldn’t make people like him. He wanted to destroy me, but he didn’t succeed.

Baggio recounted an example of the coaches animosity towards him during a training session:

I played a 40-yard pass to free Bobo Vieri, who scored. He turned round and applauded me, so did Panucci. It was a normal thing between team-mates but Lippi went crazy. ‘Vieri, Panucci, what the feck do you think you’re doing? Do you think this is the theatre? We’re not here to clap each other!’

Roby left Inter with his head held high however and with some positive memories. He scored two late goals to beat Real Madrid in the Champions League, and in his final appearance versus Parma – a Champions League qualification playoff – he scored two wonder strikes to ensure victory and progression for the club.



Many thought the final chapter in the Baggio story had been written when he chose little Brescia as his final destination. In realizing their coup of capturing an historic great, coach Carlo Mazzone set about building a team around the mercurial number 10. However, yet another early injury kept Baggio for months. On his return, Brescia were at the foot of the table – but not for long.

Inspiring his team, Roby fired in 10 goals (not to mention many assists) in an incredible end of season run which saw Brescia finish 7th in Serie A and qualify for the Intertoto Cup. For the next three seasons Baggio enjoyed some of the best form of his career, scoring many wonder-strikes and creating with the vision only a true great can see. Every season Baggio played, Brescia remained in Serie A – something that had rarely happened to the provincial club (indeed, the season after his retirement they were relegated),

And so it came, on the 16th May 2004 at the San Siro, Roberto Baggio played his last ever game versus former club, AC Milan. The capacity crowd, knowing the significance of the event, had come in their droves to bid a fond farewell to a player who transcended club loyalties. With banners dedicated to him in every corner of the stadium, both home and away fans chanted his name constantly whilst applauding his every touch. With 84 minutes played, the number 10 was held aloft. As he walked off the pitch he was given one of the warmest standing ovations from the crowd, any player had ever received. Teary-eyed, he applauded back, and was embraced with heartwarming affection by the opposition captain; friend and former team-mate Paolo Maldini. As he disappeared down the tunnel, the world of football had just witnessed the last of the true fantasista.

Baggio’s playing career was full of contradictions; he was a paradox. A character which such strong beliefs and confidence, yet there remained a fragility to him. For all the immense talent which would mark him down as one of the greatest in the history of the game, he always seemed to be fighting against an ‘enemy’ – whether that would be injuries, coaches or just fate, his fragility only served to endear him to the public as he battled the odds whilst remaining true to the spirit of the number 10 shirt. He approached everything with great humility despite his fame and stature, and his humble, friendly manner ensured he was also much-loved by fellow professionals and team-mates throughout his career. This is a player who auctioned off his winning Ballon d’Or to give proceeds to the victims of a flooding disaster, who campaigns for humanitarian aid and vowed to fight world hunger and disease stating it “a moral obligation”.



His exploits for the national team, spanning three World Cup Finals (scoring in all – the only Italian ever to do this) also contributed to Baggio’s popularity around the globe. From scoring that goal in Italia’90, he almost single-handedly dragged an average Italian side to the final in USA’94, scoring five goals (all in the knockout stages) before missing that penalty, for which he is most unfairly remembered – despite both Franco Baresi and Danielle Massaro already missing during the shoot-out, and despite playing half-fit after suffering injury during the semi-final victory. He later admitted:

Even if I’d have had to play with one leg [in the Final], I would have done.

Somewhat banishing that penalty ghost, he scored a decisive spot-kick during France’98 to give Italy a late equaliser against Chile, as well as scoring in the shoot-out versus hosts and eventual champions, France. All in all, Il Divin Codino played 16 times in World Cup Finals, scoring 9 times (a joint record), and was only ever eliminated from the competition via penalty shoot-outs – finishing third, and as a runner-up in two of those tournaments. Capped by the Azzurri only 56 times whilst scoring 27 goals, his infamous penalty miss came at a time when he was at the peak of his powers. The unfair blame placed in his shoulders initially, by then coach Arrigo Sacchi led to many years left out in the wilderness. Just as the big clubs had done, the national team never truly appreciated his talents, especially post ’94.

One Italian best summed up the treatment of their most gifted ever player, when he wrote this upon his retirement:

Italy loved you, Baggino, but it also obscured and humiliated you.

Technically perfect, his penalties, free-kicks, vision, skilful dribbling and consistency in front of goal made him a player easy to adore. He never enjoyed the success his talents deserved at club or international level but in ability, creativity and fantasy alone, Baggio deserves his place amongst the all-time greats. Many footballers may have bigger trophy cabinets, but very few have been adored as many, worldwide. In FIFA’s global internet poll in 2000 to choose the greatest player of the 20th century, Baggio came 4th behind Maradona, Pele and Eusebio.

In Serie A alone his goalscoring exploits were phenomenal. One of only six men to score over 200 goals in the league, he finished up with a total of 205 goals from 452 games – not bad for a non-striker. More outstanding though, is that an incredible 96 of those goals were decisive for his teams – meaning they were either equalizers or winners.

Scoring over 300 career goals in all competitions, it wasn’t just the quantity, but the quality of strikes – some of the most beautiful ever seen, scored on the domestic, European and International stage. They will live long in the memory of football fans around the world.



These incredible feats and magical memories were provided by a true great. How many other so called ‘greats’ had to fight against so many obstacles throughout their careers, being written off unfairly before consistently proving the doubters wrong and providing inspiration to others? A player that by rights, could have retired in 1985 due to his horrific injury, but instead chose to suffer the pain throughout his glittering career, all for the love of the game.

All that’s left to say is ‘Grazie Roby’, the finest fantasista of them all!

 

[harms]

Would've switched Krol and Campbell, despite Krol being a natural at LCB, because you'd want Krol minding Baggio who is peeling to the left and Cambpell facing physical Batigol.

 

[2mufc0]

Stoichkov at his barca prime scored 76 goals in 151 games i.e. 1 goal every two games compare that to baggio 78 in 141 or batistuta 168 in 269 games(a goal every sixty minutes).

Jairzinho with brazil scored 33 goals in 81 matches, Rivelino 70 in 236 and Gullit 38 in 125 for their respective clubs. Baggio has almost scored the same amount of goals in a year which gullit scored in 7.(30 goals in 92/93).

Why are you cherry picking post the full career stats.

E.g why only show Jairzinhho's national stats but club for everyone else.

 

[2mufc0]

FANTASISTA LEGENDS: ROBERTO BAGGIO

Baggio…oh yes…oh yes…oh yes!!! What a goal by Baggio! That’s the goal they’ve all been waiting for!

The ‘they’, the excitable ITV commentator was referring to, was the whole of Italy during World Cup Italia ‘90, as an entire nation had waited impatiently in anticipation, then watched in expectation, as their latest ‘golden boy’ – a magical fantasista – made himself known to a global audience. Making his first start of the finals, and wearing the no.15 shirt, Roberto Baggio announced himself to the world, gracefully gliding through the Czechoslovakian team from the halfway line, before sending the goalkeeper the wrong way to score. Collapsing to the turf, for a brief moment, all the intense pressures of being world football’s ‘next big thing’ had been lifted; Roberto Baggio had arrived.

In truth, Baggio had ‘arrived’ much earlier. In Italy, he was already a star attraction in Serie A, where he had been lighting up the league for the previous few seasons in the city of Florence, with Fiorentina. His mercurial talent would remain a fixture in the Italian top-flight for the next 14 seasons (playing 18 in total). But for all those who witnessed his magic and the outstanding feats he achieved during this time, the extraordinary thing is, he played the majority of his career suffering with injury. You see, Baggio’s story was almost over before it had even begun.

One of eight children, Roberto Baggio was born in Caldogno in the north-east of Italy, near Vicenza. As a young boy he showed an early interest in football. When not using his parents’ bedroom as a makeshift pitch (where the goals consisted of a double bed and a wardrobe), he was outside, often disappearing until dusk playing with a ball, leaving his father to go searching for him on his bike. The youngster was soon scoring in real goals as his talent was spotted by village club, Caldogno, at just 9 years old. By the age of 11 he was on the radar of nearly every club in Italy, and was soon starting to be hailed as a prodigy after scoring 45 goals in just 26 games. After scoring 6 in one game, scout Antonio Mora took him to Vicenza who paid Caldogno just £300.

The step-up in level made no difference to the now 13 year old Baggio, who hit a whopping 110 goals in 120 youth-team games before being promoted to the first team, aged just 15. Now seeking to emulate his footballing idol – Brazilian fantasista, Zico – his form for Vicenza (then in Serie C-1) during only his third senior season, helped win promotion – but they would have to play in Serie B without their young star. Baggio’s stock had risen to such a level that two Serie A giants began chasing his signature, with Juventus confident of securing a deal. However, a last minute bid of around £1.5million from Fiorentina ensured they won the race.



What should have been a celebration soon turned to tragedy however as just two days before the deal was finalized, Baggio shattered the cruciate ligament in his right knee whilst playing against Rimini. Aged just 18, with the world at his feet, he was victim to a career-threatening injury and was told by doctors he would never play again.

There was cause for optimism however. Fiorentina chose to honour the deal and stood by their new signing, sending him to France for pioneering surgery – thus ensuring a strong bond between club and player that would be hard to break in the future. But these were the darkest days of Baggio’s life. Mentally, they helped define him as a person and gave him a great inner-strength and belief, but physically, the injury would remain with him for the rest of his playing career. His pure love for the game though, would simply not allow him to quit:

I underwent surgery that was very risky at the time. They had to drill through my kneecap and reattach all the ligaments with 220 internal stitches. I am allergic to the most powerful painkillers, so I was in absolute agony day and night for months afterwards – but I held on because of my passion for the game.

Baggio missed nearly all of the next two seasons through injury, and in truth he never fully recovered. Upon retirement he stated that if he were to play only when he didn’t feel pain, he would have stepped on the pitch “only two or three times a year”. The incredible will he showed to ‘never give up’ also came from a more surprising source during his recovery, which again marked him out as being different from the rest.

In a staunchly Catholic country, he converted to Buddhism. At just 21 years old he made the choice whilst in the eye of the public, joining the Soka Gakkia order which emphasizes the importance of self-motivation over blind obedience. Its teachings also encourage contribution to the well-being of friends, family, community and the promotion of peace, culture and education. Followers are devoted to ‘inner transformation that enables people to develop themselves and take responsibility for their lives.’ Baggio would eventually have one of the order’s mantras embroidered on his captain’s armband.

Once playing in the famous purple of Fiorentina, Baggio quickly became the fans idol and embarked on a happy couple of years. He made his debut against Sampdoria and scored his first goal against the champions elect, Napoli in 1987. He continued the next three seasons in superb fashion as his style of play delighted all who watched. Even for a fantasista, he scored at a rapid rate with almost a-goal-every-other-game ratio.



But it wasn’t the quantity of the goals which stood out – it was the quality and variety. Spectacular, and from all angles and areas, he’d score curlers, volleys, dribbles through the defence (including the keeper), free-kicks, penalties and one-on-ones – finishing was never a problem for Baggio. So natural and cool in front of goal, the Italian’s said he had ‘ice in his veins’. But it wasn’t just goals – as a fantasista he also created so much more. This led former Argentine and Viola midfielder Miguel Montuori to famously claim in the ’88-’89 season that Baggio was:

…more productive than Maradona. He is without doubt the best number 10 in the league.

A call-up to the Azzurri naturally followed, making his debut in 1988 versus Holland, and scoring his first international goal five months later during his first start against Uruguay with a trademark free-kick. At the end of that season he married his childhood sweetheart Andreina, and it was also during this period he was christened with one of the most famous nicknames in the game. Tying his already long hair at the back ‘Il Divin Codino’ was born – the divine ponytail.

Firing Fiorentina to the UEFA Cup final but narrowly losing to Juventus, Baggio was now a huge star in Italy and the rest of Europe was taking note. To the disbelief of the Viola faithful however he was sold, against his will, for a world record transfer fee to Juventus, just prior to the 1990 World Cup finals. The record £8 million move sparked three days worth of riots in the city of Florence, such was the fans disappointment of selling their idol to a hated rival. The ‘match of poison’ would now take on even greater significance. Roberto was preparing for the finals with the Azzurri at Coverciano but was sickened by the violence, and left feeling betrayed by the club’s stance to portray him as the villain in seeking the move.



Baggio would ensure the truth was known at the next meeting between the two clubs however, as the Italian saying goes: Sempre nel mio cuore – you’ll always be in my heart. Proving this to the Fiorentina fans, he refused to take a penalty for Juventus against them (he was the designated taker), which Juve duly missed. He was then substituted but left the pitch at the Artemio Franchi stadium clutching a thrown Viola scarf.

After his world record move, Baggio had an initial frosty relationship with the Juventus faithful – the penalty incident in Florence hadn’t exactly endeared him to his new public. However his sensational abilities soon won them over. During his five seasons in Turin Baggio was confirmed to be what many already knew – he was the greatest player on the planet and thus became a global superstar, destined for legendary status. In 1993 he was voted World and European Player of the Year after leading Juventus to UEFA Cup glory (his first major trophy) and in 1995 he finally won the Serie A title (alongside a Coppa Italia).

Such was his play – in conjuring fantasy on a football pitch at a time of ever growing athleticism and dour tactics – fans around the globe adored him. He was the reference point to everything still magical in the game, a reminder to when skill ruled over physicality. A perfect example of the number 10 shirt; a symbol for the fantasista.

The angels sing in his legs, former Fiorentina boss Aldo Agroppi famously said, such was his beautiful style of play.

The emergence of Alessandro Del Piero, alongside the ‘tactical differences’ coach Marcelo Lippi wanted to implement, led to the sale of Baggio to AC Milan.



Although he won his second Serie A title here, he was never fully appreciated – again suffering with injuries, and against the coaches who preferred the more athletic, over natural skill. The number 18 shirt on his back looking as alien as the great fantasista himself sitting on the bench. His frustration growing at the way football was losing its artistry, Baggio stated:

It’s better to have 10 disorganised people who can play football than 10 organised people who just run.

Disillusioned by the big clubs, Roby chose mediocre Bologna to showcase his talents next. Feeling ‘born again’, complete with a closely shaven head and unshackled from the tactical leash, he was given free reign and promptly had his best scoring season in Serie A, hitting the net 22 times in just 30 matches. Such was his form, a recall to the national team for the 1998 World Cup was preceded by one last ‘big’ move to Inter. Initially things looked promising at his second spell in Milan. However once again injuries, along with the return of coaching nemesis Marcelo Lippi, ensured Baggio had another miserable time. After refusing to be ‘a spy in the dressing room’ for Lippi, the coach tried to ‘destroy’ him. Baggio wrote in his autobiography:

The Lippi I had at Inter declared war on me. The problem was that even when I didn’t play, I was always on people’s lips whereas Lippi, try as he might, just couldn’t make people like him. He wanted to destroy me, but he didn’t succeed.

Baggio recounted an example of the coaches animosity towards him during a training session:

I played a 40-yard pass to free Bobo Vieri, who scored. He turned round and applauded me, so did Panucci. It was a normal thing between team-mates but Lippi went crazy. ‘Vieri, Panucci, what the feck do you think you’re doing? Do you think this is the theatre? We’re not here to clap each other!’

Roby left Inter with his head held high however and with some positive memories. He scored two late goals to beat Real Madrid in the Champions League, and in his final appearance versus Parma – a Champions League qualification playoff – he scored two wonder strikes to ensure victory and progression for the club.



Many thought the final chapter in the Baggio story had been written when he chose little Brescia as his final destination. In realizing their coup of capturing an historic great, coach Carlo Mazzone set about building a team around the mercurial number 10. However, yet another early injury kept Baggio for months. On his return, Brescia were at the foot of the table – but not for long.

Inspiring his team, Roby fired in 10 goals (not to mention many assists) in an incredible end of season run which saw Brescia finish 7th in Serie A and qualify for the Intertoto Cup. For the next three seasons Baggio enjoyed some of the best form of his career, scoring many wonder-strikes and creating with the vision only a true great can see. Every season Baggio played, Brescia remained in Serie A – something that had rarely happened to the provincial club (indeed, the season after his retirement they were relegated),

And so it came, on the 16th May 2004 at the San Siro, Roberto Baggio played his last ever game versus former club, AC Milan. The capacity crowd, knowing the significance of the event, had come in their droves to bid a fond farewell to a player who transcended club loyalties. With banners dedicated to him in every corner of the stadium, both home and away fans chanted his name constantly whilst applauding his every touch. With 84 minutes played, the number 10 was held aloft. As he walked off the pitch he was given one of the warmest standing ovations from the crowd, any player had ever received. Teary-eyed, he applauded back, and was embraced with heartwarming affection by the opposition captain; friend and former team-mate Paolo Maldini. As he disappeared down the tunnel, the world of football had just witnessed the last of the true fantasista.

Baggio’s playing career was full of contradictions; he was a paradox. A character which such strong beliefs and confidence, yet there remained a fragility to him. For all the immense talent which would mark him down as one of the greatest in the history of the game, he always seemed to be fighting against an ‘enemy’ – whether that would be injuries, coaches or just fate, his fragility only served to endear him to the public as he battled the odds whilst remaining true to the spirit of the number 10 shirt. He approached everything with great humility despite his fame and stature, and his humble, friendly manner ensured he was also much-loved by fellow professionals and team-mates throughout his career. This is a player who auctioned off his winning Ballon d’Or to give proceeds to the victims of a flooding disaster, who campaigns for humanitarian aid and vowed to fight world hunger and disease stating it “a moral obligation”.



His exploits for the national team, spanning three World Cup Finals (scoring in all – the only Italian ever to do this) also contributed to Baggio’s popularity around the globe. From scoring that goal in Italia’90, he almost single-handedly dragged an average Italian side to the final in USA’94, scoring five goals (all in the knockout stages) before missing that penalty, for which he is most unfairly remembered – despite both Franco Baresi and Danielle Massaro already missing during the shoot-out, and despite playing half-fit after suffering injury during the semi-final victory. He later admitted:

Even if I’d have had to play with one leg [in the Final], I would have done.

Somewhat banishing that penalty ghost, he scored a decisive spot-kick during France’98 to give Italy a late equaliser against Chile, as well as scoring in the shoot-out versus hosts and eventual champions, France. All in all, Il Divin Codino played 16 times in World Cup Finals, scoring 9 times (a joint record), and was only ever eliminated from the competition via penalty shoot-outs – finishing third, and as a runner-up in two of those tournaments. Capped by the Azzurri only 56 times whilst scoring 27 goals, his infamous penalty miss came at a time when he was at the peak of his powers. The unfair blame placed in his shoulders initially, by then coach Arrigo Sacchi led to many years left out in the wilderness. Just as the big clubs had done, the national team never truly appreciated his talents, especially post ’94.

One Italian best summed up the treatment of their most gifted ever player, when he wrote this upon his retirement:

Italy loved you, Baggino, but it also obscured and humiliated you.

Technically perfect, his penalties, free-kicks, vision, skilful dribbling and consistency in front of goal made him a player easy to adore. He never enjoyed the success his talents deserved at club or international level but in ability, creativity and fantasy alone, Baggio deserves his place amongst the all-time greats. Many footballers may have bigger trophy cabinets, but very few have been adored as many, worldwide. In FIFA’s global internet poll in 2000 to choose the greatest player of the 20th century, Baggio came 4th behind Maradona, Pele and Eusebio.

In Serie A alone his goalscoring exploits were phenomenal. One of only six men to score over 200 goals in the league, he finished up with a total of 205 goals from 452 games – not bad for a non-striker. More outstanding though, is that an incredible 96 of those goals were decisive for his teams – meaning they were either equalizers or winners.

Scoring over 300 career goals in all competitions, it wasn’t just the quantity, but the quality of strikes – some of the most beautiful ever seen, scored on the domestic, European and International stage. They will live long in the memory of football fans around the world.



These incredible feats and magical memories were provided by a true great. How many other so called ‘greats’ had to fight against so many obstacles throughout their careers, being written off unfairly before consistently proving the doubters wrong and providing inspiration to others? A player that by rights, could have retired in 1985 due to his horrific injury, but instead chose to suffer the pain throughout his glittering career, all for the love of the game.

All that’s left to say is ‘Grazie Roby’, the finest fantasista of them all!

Feck is anyone reading all of that.

 

[MJJ]

Spectacular, and from all angles and areas, he’d score curlers, volleys, dribbles through the defence (including the keeper), free-kicks, penalties and one-on-ones – finishing was never a problem for Baggio. So natural and cool in front of goal, the Italian’s said he had ‘ice in his veins’. But it wasn’t just goals – as a fantasista he also created so much more. This led former Argentine and Viola midfielder Miguel Montuori to famously claim in the ’88-’89 season that Baggio was:

…more productive than Maradona. He is without doubt the best number 10 in the league.

The angels sing in his legs, former Fiorentina boss Aldo Agroppi famously said, such was his beautiful style of play.

The Gazzetta dello Sport is one of the most instantly recognisable sports newspapers in the world, having been published for over well 100 years whilst bringing daily football news and coverage to Italians up and down the country from within its pink pages.

One of its most respected, closely followed and scrutinised features is its Player Rating system. Awarding an individual mark out of 10 to players for their performance after every game, the notoriously difficult rating has become something of a benchmark for fans and the professionals themselves, with just a handful of players ever receiving a ‘perfect’ 10 score since the first ratings were published back in October 1973. Most commonly awarded, is the score of 6 – the rating ‘given to a player considered to have done the very least of what is required’ during a match.

However, not even the great Platini during his record season, Maradona in his prime, or the irrepressible Totti during his 20 year career have had the honour of being awarded a perfect 10 out of 10 score during a single match – something which only two players have ever achieved in the history of Serie A.

The great Roberto Baggio was awarded the ultimate match rating of 10 after his performance in the Inter Milan versus Parma Champions League qualification play-off back in 2000. Il Divin Codino almost single-handedly guided the Nerazzurri into Europe’s premier competition by inspiring them to a 3-1 win, scoring twice – a deceptively precise free-kick and an outstanding 20 yard left-footed half-volley – and being ‘absolutely perfect all game’ according to the comments made alongside his awarded rating.

It was a bitter-sweet triumph for the magical number 10 and somewhat of a parting gift to Inter; Roby had already decided to leave the club after his disgraceful treatment at the hands of the then manager, Marcelo Lippi who had ‘declared war’ on him. When Baggio eventually ended his illustrious career, he did so with an average of 6.27.

Considering the only other player to ever receive a rating of 10 in Serie A was for saving a team-mates life on the pitch, literally – Cagliari goalkeeper Alessio Scarpi rescued Gianluca Grassadonia after the defender suffered a heart attack during a game with Udinese – we think Baggio’s achievement is all the more remarkable.

 

[Moby]

Would've switched Krol and Campbell, despite Krol being a natural at LCB, because you'd want Krol minding Baggio who is peeling to the left and Cambpell facing physical Batigol.

Definitely that would be ideal, but then they would look odd on opposite sides. Bigger worry is Monti getting rimmed by Baggio making those gliding runs, won't be a pretty sight for the pre war legend. That CB duo will definitely need both CMs to help out against that front 3, and I don't think that area has been designed well enough to contain them.

 

[MJJ]

Why are you cherry picking post the full career stats.

E.g why only show Jairzinhho's national stats but club for everyone else.

Because he played in brazil so have to offset it for players who have played in harder leagues. The reason I am posting prime figures is to compare more accurately, I doubt you are playing the Gullit who played for Chelsea here

Feck is anyone reading all of that.

Missing out, is one of my favourite pieces on baggio.

 

[MJJ]

Santos is fine here. For that left side 2mufc has van Hanegem, Rivelino and Stoichkov, all of whom had experience of playing out wide.

It depends on how much time those three will spend out wide imo.

he overarching idea is create a sense of 4v3 superiority in midfield - the trio of Kopa, Tigana and Voronin against the Square of Gullit, Rivelino, Van Hanegem, Monti to both control proceedings and disrupt his build up play.

The tactics suggest that van hanegem and rivelino won't be going out wide that often and if stoichkov the most prolific of the attacking four spends a significant time on the left wing thats a win for me.

 

[MJJ]

Definitely that would be ideal, but then they would look odd on opposite sides. Bigger worry is Monti getting rimmed by Baggio making those gliding runs, won't be a pretty sight for the pre war legend. That CB duo will definitely need both CMs to help out against that front 3, and I don't think that area has been designed well enough to contain them.

Exact reason why I posted the gif of his 1990 world cup goal, picks up the ball in midfield, plays a one-two to take out the midfielder, dribbles past the left back, confuses the centreback and voila.

 

[Physiocrat]

With respect to goalscoring records I think it would be more accurate in most cases to highlight their best three consecutive years as we are looking at the players at their peak, not over all their careers. If you look at Denis Law's goalscoring record over his club career it isn't too spectacular but over a three year window it's exceptional.

 

[2mufc0]

Can someone provide some sources that Monti was slow and struggled with dribblers? From what I've read he was the complete opposite and according to pes stats (I know, but the stats are based on research and what we know about pre footage players) he is rated as 80 acceleration and 82 speed with 79 agility so wasn't a slug either.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

No central striker, both Jairzinho and Stoichov will struggle to play with their back to goal thus you are looking to play the ball on the floor and pass the ball in space.

Disagree with this. Stoichkov and Jairzinho do not really need a traditional CF. Stoichkov even played as CF himself in Barca Dream Team with likes of Bakero/Amor in a flexible role. Jarzinho started his career as a striker and moved to his preferred RW position. With Gullit able to step in, I don't see Jairzinho playing a right sided attacker (not a pure winger).

Can someone provide some sources that Monti was slow and struggled with dribblers?

Nothing at all. He was regularly facing 5 man attacks and was known for his positional sense and tough tackling with simple but effective ball distribution skills. He'll keep the game moving forward but none of the defense splitting long passes.

Baggio will be effective operating between the lines, but Monti has lots of support in haing Gullit and van Hanegem beside him who both are hard workers and will be all action both in attack and defence. I don't see him as a vulnerability.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Like 2mufc's formation. Against a defence as tough as MJJs think this is the only way to make inroads.

It'll be a high scoring game for sure for both teams.

 

[MJJ]

With respect to goalscoring records I think it would be more accurate in most cases to highlight their best three consecutive years as we are looking at the players at their peak, not over all their careers. If you look at Denis Law's goalscoring record over his club career it isn't too spectacular but over a three year window it's exceptional.

Stoichov-22/22/24 in 43/46/48.
Jairzinho- Not on wiki
Rivelino-Not on wiki
Gullit-13/11/9 in 39/28/34 (transfermarket)

Not much difference, for comparison.

Baggio-27/22/30 in 47/40/43
Batistuta-24/26/29 in 37/37/44
Kopa-13/11/11 in 33/31/31.


@2mufc0 did Jairzinho perform well as a striker? From what I remember he struggled for brazil until he displaced garrincha from the right.

 

[Enigma_87]

Nothing at all. He was regularly facing 5 man attacks and was known for his positional sense and tough tackling with simple but effective ball distribution skills. He'll keep the game moving forward but none of the defense splitting long passes.

He was playing in an era when goalkeepers were wearing caps and the pace is way off what we used to see 20-30 years later. I've never read anywhere that Monti has been a good athlete, but on the opposite side - that he was overweight when he turned up in Italy.

 

[MJJ]

Disagree with this. Stoichkov and Jairzinho do not really need a traditional CF. Stoichkov even played as CF himself in Barca Dream Team with likes of Bakero/Amor in a flexible role. Jarzinho started his career as a striker and moved to his preferred RW position. With Gullit able to step in, I don't see Jairzinho playing a right sided attacker (not a pure winger).



Nothing at all. He was regularly facing 5 man attacks and was known for his positional sense and tough tackling with simple but effective ball distribution skills. He'll keep the game moving forward but none of the defense splitting long passes.

Baggio will be effective operating between the lines, but Monti has lots of support in haing Gullit and van Hanegem beside him who both are hard workers and will be all action both in attack and defence. I don't see him as a vulnerability.

I did not get this part?

Has monti ever dealt with anyone with the pace or guile of baggio? I also have kopa and tigana operating in that area, the former of the duo was an exceptional dribbler. Probably one of the best ever.

 

[2mufc0]

I did not get this part?

Has monti ever dealt with anyone with the pace or guile of baggio? I also have kopa and tigana operating in that area, the former of the duo was an exceptional dribbler. Probably one of the best ever.

Nullified Sindelaar in the world cup final.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

He was playing in an era when goalkeepers were wearing caps and the pace is way off what we used to see 20-30 years later. I've never read anywhere that Monti has been a good athlete, but on the opposite side - that he was overweight when he turned up in Italy.

He is a DM. I don't really see that many pacy DMs across any era. Deschamps, Hierro, Zito, Varela, Tardelli, Pluskal, Cerezo...the list goes on. Even the likes of Keane, Vieira etc were known more for the workrate and not really for the blistering pace. It's just weird to see lack of pace being bought up against Monti in this game specifically. Gullit's natural game is to drop deep and van Hanegem is a good tackler with high workrate, makes for a solid midfield defensively.

 

[MJJ]

Nullified Sindelaar in the world cup final.

A 31 year old Sindelaar.

At this stage, the Austrians were slightly past their best, but they were still a team of high quality and it would be a game between their ability to play at their best and the rugged athleticism of the Italians. On a day when rain soaked the San Siro in Milan, the silky football of Austria was already compromised by the conditions, and it took Monti’s nullifying on Sindelar’s threat to keep the Austrians at bay. It was a task he fully succeeded at. Although Austria had plenty of possession, with Sindelar restrained by Monti’s attention, there was a lack of bite to their attacks, and the game was decided by a single, controversial, goal.

 

[2mufc0]

Monti is often described as dynamic and able to to cover several positions, hardly points to a guy that was not mobile.

Turning up after pre season out of shape doesn't necessarily mean anything either, and the actual quote says this:

Monti joined Juventus in 1932, falling under the managership of Carlo Carcano, but upon arriving in Turin, the club were disappointed to discover that their new star player was overweight and clearly unfit. He was detailed to take a month’s intensive training to get him to the required shape. Once completed, he was ready to display skills and show the Old Lady what her money had bought

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Has monti ever dealt with anyone with the pace or guile of baggio? I also have kopa and tigana operating in that area, the former of the duo was an exceptional dribbler. Probably one of the best ever.

Has there ever been a necessity for DMs to be as pacier as their AM opponents? McGrath marked out Baggio in 1994 WC. Was McGrath as pacy or had dribbling ability as Baggio? Positioning, tactical intelligence plays a long way more than just pace when defending and Monti was known for both.

 

[Enigma_87]

He is a DM. I don't really see that many pacy DMs across any era. Deschamps, Hierro, Zito, Varela, Tardelli, Pluskal, Cerezo...the list goes on. Even the likes of Keane, Vieira etc were known more for the workrate and not really for the blistering pace. It's just weird to see lack of pace being bought up against Monti in this game specifically. Gullit's natural game is to drop deep and van Hanegem is a good tackler with high workrate, makes for a solid midfield defensively.

Seriously? Tardelli is quite quick off the mark. He scored plenty of goals coming from deep and one of his most famous goals in the WC came with a good sprint off his own half.