Rooney is finished

Is Rooney done at the required level?


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The greatest manager of all time knew that Rooneys time had come at the end of that 12/13 season.
He should have moved him on. Instead, Moyes came, gave him a retirement contract and effectively tied his fortune to a player living on reputation rather than performance.
What puzzles me, is that both LVG and Mou have been incapable of reversing that ill fated decision.
Hodgson for England failed with the same call, and it seems Allardyce is not able to spot the Elefant in the room either.

Sadest of all, it will tarnish the legacy of Rooney himself. He will be known as the legend who safely steered the greatest club in the world to mediocracy.
 
Has been proved over the past 3 years that he is finished at the top level. Sooner he is out of this club the better as he represents the current problem at United.

He ought to count his lucky stars Fergie retired when he did otherwise he would have been long gone from the club.
 
The problem with Rooney is the knock on effect of where and how he plays similarly to Fellaini. They can both have what looks like a decent/effective game whilst also bringing down the team.

I.e Rooney can be on top of his game with his long passes, switching it effectively to Valencia well all game but the problem is if Valencia doesn't deliver, or we have players wide who don't want to go down the line/cross then that's a lof of our attacks gone. Now that's not quite Rooney's fault but it's a problem that his key creative input either is too an inconsistent player or someone who doesn't want to be wide on top of not being a good crosser.

I don't have a problem, I don't want him booted/frozen out etc but we need to accept that his style of play doesn't suit a lot of our other attackers and he plays in too key a role to get over it. He's in the most important creative position we have, he's got to able to play to the strengths of our best players. I don't think he can do that. I don't think he's got nothing to add but I don't think he can bring the most out of the players around him and so shouldn't be starting.
 
3 years. Goes to 2019. We'd owe him around £40M I think if we cancelled his contract. Don't know if any penalties and such are included - it could be more.

Hmmm. If Rooney's days are numbered, that's a hell of a commitment you're stuck with.
 
He's been done for years. No club keeps hold of geriatrics quite like United.

So true.

What he does is pick up space in the most cowardly possible fashion.

Great midfielders pick up space in the most dangerous of areas, they find little pockets and hurt the opposition.

Rooney's idea of picking up space is literally finding empty areas of the pitch so he can get on the ball with no pressure. That position could be left back, right wing, between the centre backs or deep in midfield when everyone else is pushed forward. He melts if he's pressed and gives the ball away so spends the entire game trying to find somewhere get can get the ball with acres of space and time.


Great post.

To be a bit fair i still think he had a good game today, that is atleast by hes normal form. He did get the ball to Valencia quite a few times. And that one narrow pass to Rashford was also good. Could indeed help out Zlatan a bit more. Atleast if hes suppose to be a 10, right now im a bit confused about what he is.

A good game :wenger:

Awful, awful stats. Not even his biggest fanboys can defend that.

Btw, where did you get the stats from? Interested to see the stats for other players

But I bet they will, Nick and perrick will no doubt about it!
 
I know, but the pushing out started towards the end of that 12/13 season. Remember when he got moved off to the LW in that Madrid game and then eventually benched in the 2nd leg

Haha yh I remember that, just you said Rooney scored 34 goals that season, when it was actually 12?
 
The worst player, forward, at any big club in Europe.

As his play stands, possibly ever.

Yes we have other problems......but the fulcrum of the side is Rooney.......let that sink in and weep.


If he is still first choice come Christmas then I want JM out.
 
I said before the season started that I think Mourinho might have a play in mind for Rooney and I'm hoping that is still the case: He knows full well that he can't just come straight in and kick Rooney straight out, he's got to let him play himself out of the team which is exactly what he's doing.

I think he'll be disappointed that the team didn't fire against Feyenoord as it would have been good ammo for continuing to marginalise him. The more he plays Rooney and the more Rooney plays like this, the easier his job of marginalising him is going to be.

Hopefully this is right, but we desperately need somebody to come in and force him out. Another blow to this plan came when Mkhitaryan played the way he did against City, because he's the one i think is most likely to force him out. On paper he's better than Rooney in every way.

Further to what you said, i also thought that Mourinho would like to get everybody on side before he made a big decision instead of upsetting the apple cart so soon. He badly needed a good start and for everybody to believe in everything he was doing. Now, like you said, he needs somebody to force Rooney out of the team.
 
If Jose keep on playing him its going to cost his Job at the end of the season.He need to step up and drop him, there is no excuse for team captain to play like this.
 
Realistically we ain't getting top four with fatty in the side.

Pep has got balls, Yaya and Hart.

Jose......clearly hasn't.
 
What he does is pick up space in the most cowardly possible fashion.

Great midfielders pick up space in the most dangerous of areas, they find little pockets and hurt the opposition.

Rooney's idea of picking up space is literally finding empty areas of the pitch so he can get on the ball with no pressure. That position could be left back, right wing, between the centre backs or deep in midfield when everyone else is pushed forward. He melts if he's pressed and gives the ball away so spends the entire game trying to find somewhere get can get the ball with acres of space and time.
This is spot on. Read an article describing the exact same thing last week. The knock on effect is that he can't pass it into players in dangerous positions because he does not do anything to draw players out of position. This is where his stifling effect come into play.
 
In the modern game Cam/10 is so so important.


We have fatty.

The worst forward in the premier league.
 
That's even worse than I thought and I was already aware if him being closer to 35 rather than Hus real age. So you telling me just the sheer effort of staying in football shape has made him age even quicker physically?

I'm just going off what I've heard and read from people I'd assume to know a fair bit about it, but basically, yeah.

The majority of 16-21 year olds play age appropriate football and only once they hit 21 start making bit part appearances in senior sides. There's a reason we have under 16s, 17s, 18s, 19s, 21s and even under 23s as distinct categories away from senior football. Rooney made his Everton debut at 16 years old in 2002, then went on to play in 37 games for them that season. He then made another 40 appearances the following season.

He signed for United aged 18, and had already made 77 senior appearances across the three top domestic competitions, then once you included his international caps, he'd already made 90 odd professional appearances. He then made 40 or more appearances every year for United for 8 consecutive seasons, ending in 2012-13 where he made 37. By the end of the 2012-13 season, still aged 27, Rooney had made 479 professional appearances at club level, and over 80 appearances for England at senior level. Additionally, for much of his career he has been one of, if not the only real key player for whoever he's played for.

If you take Ashley Young, who's just a few months older than Rooney, as a sort of "normal" example, he didn't make his professional debut until he was 18, and only made 6 appearances in his first season. At the end of this season, Rooney had already made 77 appearances for Everton. Young broke through properly in his second, aged 19, and maintained that for his third season. However, Young made his debut at Watford in Division 1/Championship, and didn't play in the Premier League until he was 21. Had Watford not been promoted, he may not have made his Premier League debut until later still.

At the end of 2012-13, aged 27, Ashley Young had made 355 professional appearances at club level, and just shy of 30 for England at senior level. That's over 170 games difference, and whilst Young was important for Watford and Villa, Rooney had been key for Everton, United and England for the majority of games he'd played for them by that point, in a way that just wasn't the same for Young.

In addition to playing a high number of games (719 at the moment, I think), Rooney's style of play has relied heavily on his physical attributes. It's no secret that players who rely on strength or speed tend to burn out sooner than those that rely more on their technical ability, and whilst Rooney's technical ability isn't exactly poor, it's never been something that particularly stood out about his game. I think this, and an inability to adjust his mental approach to the game, leaves him struggling now his legs aren't quite doing what he wants them to do anymore.

I think he did an interview once where he said every break from football, be it because of injury, a holiday in the off-season or simply a bit of a gap between games, would mean extra sessions in the gym for at least a couple of weeks to shed the weight and get his sharpness back, with more needed the longer the break. I think in the same one he mentioned Giggs not needing to do anything like that because his natural fitness was much better than Rooney's. Rooney's been playing top level football for 14 years now, so he's playing a high number of games, in a key role, and in a highly physical manner, for both club and country, as well as having to constantly do extra work in the gym every couple of months or so, since he was about 17. It's no wonder he's fecked.
 
Hmmm. If Rooney's days are numbered, that's a hell of a commitment you're stuck with.
All the club's fault. Their problem now so they should suck it up.
Yes Moyes should have advised Woodward better before recommending such a shit contract, but the club should still have been cautious about giving such a lucrative contract to someone so close to 30. It's common sense that most athletes will be losing their powers once they get close to that age, much less a smoking, drinking, eating all the wrong stuff Rooney.
 
Hmmm. If Rooney's days are numbered, that's a hell of a commitment you're stuck with.

At worst, say he's dropped, we stuck with him unless he leaves on his own accord. He's over the hill but he's still offers just enough as a squad option. I don't think he'd mess with the team vibe by throwing his toys out or something like that. Far from ideal but there we go.
 
Telegraph has been pretty decent lately huh?
I don't really read the Telegraph so wasn't aware they would be so blunt about Rooney. Just seems everyone has an excuse for him so I pretty much gave up about seeing this type of commentary.
 
The contrast is immense. Citeh have Silva and De Bruyne playing the same space that Rooney is. The difference between the creative outputs of these guys and our captain is light as day in the goals scored column. Don't see how any manager can continue to justify playing Wayne there. Maybe if we need to start him, we should move him out to the right wing. He can go from being a tree in the center of the pitch to a tree on one side of the field. HUGE difference
 
Looking at those who have voted no, the usual apologists are conspicuous by their absence. Hmm, I wonder why.
 
He's been finished for years but some people have refused to accept it. My Chelsea-supporting mate says that as long as he plays for us we won't the league and I agree.
 
He's so obviously finished at this level that it'd be sad if he wasn't commanding a ridiculous salary and seemingly guaranteed playing time. Just sod off, Wayne.
 
Rooney hasn't been good enough to play at the highest level for several years now. Yet he still starts virtually every game, despite regularly putting in 5/6 out of 10 performances. It's beyond a joke.
 
I'm just going off what I've heard and read from people I'd assume to know a fair bit about it, but basically, yeah.

The majority of 16-21 year olds play age appropriate football and only once they hit 21 start making bit part appearances in senior sides. There's a reason we have under 16s, 17s, 18s, 19s, 21s and even under 23s as distinct categories away from senior football. Rooney made his Everton debut at 16 years old in 2002, then went on to play in 37 games for them that season. He then made another 40 appearances the following season.

He signed for United aged 18, and had already made 77 senior appearances across the three top domestic competitions, then once you included his international caps, he'd already made 90 odd professional appearances. He then made 40 or more appearances every year for United for 8 consecutive seasons, ending in 2012-13 where he made 37. By the end of the 2012-13 season, still aged 27, Rooney had made 479 professional appearances at club level, and over 80 appearances for England at senior level. Additionally, for much of his career he has been one of, if not the only real key player for whoever he's played for.

If you take Ashley Young, who's just a few months older than Rooney, as a sort of "normal" example, he didn't make his professional debut until he was 18, and only made 6 appearances in his first season. At the end of this season, Rooney had already made 77 appearances for Everton. Young broke through properly in his second, aged 19, and maintained that for his third season. However, Young made his debut at Watford in Division 1/Championship, and didn't play in the Premier League until he was 21. Had Watford not been promoted, he may not have made his Premier League debut until later still.

At the end of 2012-13, aged 27, Ashley Young had made 355 professional appearances at club level, and just shy of 30 for England at senior level. That's over 170 games difference, and whilst Young was important for Watford and Villa, Rooney had been key for Everton, United and England for the majority of games he'd played for them by that point, in a way that just wasn't the same for Young.

In addition to playing a high number of games (719 at the moment, I think), Rooney's style of play has relied heavily on his physical attributes. It's no secret that players who rely on strength or speed tend to burn out sooner than those that rely more on their technical ability, and whilst Rooney's technical ability isn't exactly poor, it's never been something that particularly stood out about his game. I think this, and an inability to adjust his mental approach to the game, leaves him struggling now his legs aren't quite doing what he wants them to do anymore.

I think he did an interview once where he said every break from football, be it because of injury, a holiday in the off-season or simply a bit of a gap between games, would mean extra sessions in the gym for at least a couple of weeks to shed the weight and get his sharpness back, with more needed the longer the break. I think in the same one he mentioned Giggs not needing to do anything like that because his natural fitness was much better than Rooney's. Rooney's been playing top level football for 14 years now, so he's playing a high number of games, in a key role, and in a highly physical manner, for both club and country, as well as having to constantly do extra work in the gym every couple of months or so, since he was about 17. It's no wonder he's fecked.

He might be turning 31 in a month's time but Wayne has been at it since 16. Father time has simply caught up with him, no shame in that. He's the equivalent of somebody who debuted at 20 turning 35 soon.

I had an inkling about this but you have been far more thorough in explaining it. I do think its largely understated around here as too many folks just resort to the "oh he's crap because he's crap" argument.
 
I had an inkling about this but you have been far more thorough in explaining it. I do think its largely understated around here as too many folks just resort to the "oh he's crap because he's crap" argument.
Nope! most of us are fully aware of the stated facts above and say that ourselves. It's the inability by our managers not to see the damming reality is that Rooney before is shot because of these stats and somehow lack the balls to come to reality of it and drop him and we see him lumbering around putting up stats like the ones today but sometimes get masked by one bit of skill/assist/goal that people use to mask the reality that irks us more than the facts of he's burnt out.
 
I do not think rooney is all finished but I do think we need to rotate him more to get the best out of him. His knowledge, experience and adherence to old values of Sir Alex's school of thought can actually help if he comes of the bench. But we seriously need to play Mikhi in that role behind Zlatan.
 
The 23 that voted no, (without reading through the whole thread), have they said who they are and explained their reasoning (if they are being serious).
 
I do not think rooney is all finished but I do think we need to rotate him more to get the best out of him. His knowledge, experience and adherence to old values of Sir Alex's school of thought can actually help if he comes of the bench. But we seriously need to play Mikhi in that role behind Zlatan.
It doesn't work like that with Wayne. He regresses when he isn't playing, but he isn't good enough now to be playing every game. So ideally he doesn't play at this level anymore.
 
The 23 that voted no, (without reading through the whole thread), have they said who they are and explained their reasoning (if they are being serious).

You can click on the 'votes' and see who are the 23 that have voted no.
 
It's much more reasonable getting a sub par performance from a disjointed team of squad players, playing in a cup which we've always had difficulty getting motivated for. It might not be acceptable.

But for what we've had to endure with Rooney, for a consistent while now....Jesus.

Thank you! I've seen people on here, and even heard friends of mine use the Feyenoord performance as an excuse to argue that Rooney is not a problem at all. One game! Where, what, 8 new players were starting for the first time this season? Even Mourinho said as much.

Mourinho is playing with cowardly tactics, and players aren't performing, but Rooney is supposed to be a leader and a star player. He's never been a leader, and it's been a few years since he had any star quality.

I would argue that Mourinho chose the wrong player to make an example of, sure, I really don't care about Schweinsteiger's status, as he's never delivered the goods for United, but Rooney should have been the player he got rid of, by any means necessary. Look at Pep, he's always had a knack for getting rid of players with power/status who aren't performing up to the standards required. Ronaldinho and Hart comes to mind. Like SAF he manages to build something "new" and make everybody pull in the same direction. Rooney is our handbrake, and it's ruined, so we have to drive the car with the handbrakes down all the time. Surprised we're falling behind?

How are the other players not seeing this? How does Herrera, Schneiderlin and Mata really feel? One bad half of a game and they're out, while our captain plays like shit game after game after game after game after....

Rant well and truly over. "Drops the mic on the way out"
 
just look at that poll. it's impossible to get so one-sided results without asking something that has so obvious and simple answer, like "Would you like to get cancer and blindness at the same time at the age of 20?" it's fecking UNREAL that he's still the most important player for our managers.
 
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