Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

evil_geko said:
Ability and talent wise? Brazilian Ronaldo, easily. You would think so many people didn't watch R9 play by looking at some posts here. Only stat merchants would have a point about Cristiano. Like someone said, consistency and goalscoring wise, Cristiano of course, but R9 was easily a better player.
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You have to look no further than the players who either played against or got to watch R9 to see the type of reverence and legacy he still has in the game. The likes of fecking Maldini, Nesta, Zidane, Zlatan, Messi, Ronaldinho, Luis Enrique, Mourinho, Lippi, Klose, Figo, Kaka, Robson, Zico, Eto'o, RVN, Benzema, Buffon and Seedorf all rate him as either the greatest striker ever or the best player they've ever seen.

Let stat-obsessed fans online tell it though, he was overrated somehow because he had dodgy knees that derailed his career long term :rolleyes:

Accomplishments and stats aren't the end all for a lot of people like they are with some. If they were than we would widely consider the likes of Dani Alves, Pique, Dalglish, Maxwell, Ali Daei, Gerd Muller, as some of the greatest ever to play their positions but has that ever been the case?

If we're simply talking accomplishments it's no contest, but as players and ability wise at the peak of their powers, only a handful of players all-time compare.

Most folks who had the pleasure to watch the careers of both with their eyes in real time tend to lean one way...
 
CrockedRain said:
Cristiano in his mid-late 20s was better than R9 even been, In basically almost every single parameter, He basically left the debate in the dust by 2011. Also, Brazilian Ronaldo dribbling is *massively* overrated and the first things that expose the same people who shill him as youtube incubator newcomers, Which feels like most of the people in this thread coupled with the typical Cristiano haters.
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Just admit that CR7 is your idol because your ignorance on R9 is breathe taking.
 
Maldini said the the most difficult player he came up against was R9 as well as a few other well renowned serie A defenders.

Ronaldo is idolised in Italy as his level was never seen before.

Does anyone know whenCristiano's peak was? When he was banging in all his goals and won the balon d'Ors his game had regressed significantly compared to 2007-2008 so I think the best version of was somewhere between 2008-2011 when he was still capable of running at defenders and causing all sorts of chaos while keeping up a very healthy goal ratio.

I think that Cristiano is probably one level below R9 in terms of devastation and being a one man army like R9 was in attack.
 
No comparison Cristiano is miles clear.

R9 spent half his career injured or out of shape he should never be considered in these ‘goat’ debates.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Maldini said the the most difficult player he came up against was R9 as well as a few other well renowned serie A defenders.

Ronaldo is idolised in Italy as his level was never seen before.

Does anyone know whenCristiano's peak was? When he was banging in all his goals and won the balon d'Ors his game had regressed significantly compared to 2007-2008 so I think the best version of was somewhere between 2008-2011 when he was still capable of running at defenders and causing all sorts of chaos while keeping up a very healthy goal ratio.

I think that Cristiano is probably one level below R9 in terms of devastation and being a one man army like R9 was in attack.
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What about the years he was overweight? Injured?

Nowhere near the longevity needed to be considered a great. He didn’t even reach 60 goals in Italian football ffs.
 
One has had more trophies, goals and longevity but I prefer the other one all day every day. He was as close as possible to what I imagine to be the perfect striker/player
 
Castia said:
What about the years he was overweight? Injured?

Nowhere near the longevity needed to be considered a great. He didn’t even reach 60 goals in Italian football ffs.
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Tbh, the Italian league was truly tough at the time. You're right tbh, in terms of stats, there is no discussion
 
Does finishing not count as talent anymore? C. Ronaldo scored like 800 goals ..with almost scoring 40-50 goals /season..
He is way better than Ronaldo
 
nufc-forever said:
I think i do. In the final di maria was by far the best player. Messi was average. If his name wasn’t messi no one would say he was even top 3 in the final. In addition, he wasn’t the best player of the tournament, he didn’t carried Argentina, he scored unjustified penalties and fair play to him had an amazing assist against croatia i think and thats it. Anyway, 5-6 games don’t say anything, as james from colombia had an amazing wc and he is nothing special while messi is top 3 player of all time
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This may be the worst post I´ve read in here in almost 18 years.
 
Any version of Cristiano Ronaldo between 2011 and 2014 is light years away from prime Ronaldo Fenomeno. And it's not "only" because of the goals numbers but because of everything he did on the pitch
 
Isafim said:
Any version of Cristiano Ronaldo between 2011 and 2014 is light years away from prime Ronaldo Fenomeno. And it's not "only" because of the goals numbers but because of everything he did on the pitch
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Which is exactly?
 
The_Midfielder said:
Does finishing not count as talent anymore? C. Ronaldo scored like 800 goals ..with almost scoring 40-50 goals /season..
He is way better than Ronaldo
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Better finishing means better goal conversion/goal per shot. I really doubt CR7 had a better goal per shot than R9
 
21 year old Ronaldo was generally compared to Maradona by the likes of Maldini, Costacurta, etc who played against both. Only the version of Maradona they talk about is 28-29 peak Diego. Ronaldo was 21
 
Bla bla bla number of goals bla bla bla stats comparison bla bla bla

Peak Fenómeno is the best attacker to step on a football field. Yes, his peak was considerably short, but the tricks Fenómeno had in his pocket was something that could only appreciated by people who actually saw him play.

I had seen both of them play, and I have no doubts in my mind. Career wise, CR0. But considering their peaks, Fenómeno hands down. Even most of Sporting fans will tell you this.
 
Zehner said:
Which is exactly?
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Dominates his wing, makes penetrating runs through the box, plays in beautiful crosses, shoots difficult shots that either hit the post or forced a fingertip save and dribbles on long runs beating defenders, he has being able to out-jump every defender in the world to score headers and win/retain possession, out-sprint every player on every field that he takes, hit free-kicks from extremely long distances and acute angles, ability to switch to his weak side to dribble, shoot AND pass with almost equal effectiveness, shoot with devastating power and accuracy from 35 yards, possessed skills and foot-work while dribbling to create space and gain positional advantage, adapts to new teammates and managers without any dip on form from season to season, outstanding off the ball movement and uses his vision to anticipate space and breakdown defenses, 80%+ penalty taker, did Rainbows, Rabonas, 360's, Elasticos, Chops, Cruyff Turns, Scissors or Step-Overs, etc... Shooted from back-heels and volleys or back-heel volleys..... bicycle's, scissor kicks, sliding/diving/flying in.... creating a shot or pass after using any of these aforementioned tricks/flicks/skills and use his shoulders, back, neck, knees, hips, or ass to flick or pass or shoot.

On top of all that, in his best year, R9 scored 59 goals. CR7 scored 60+ in 4 consecutive. Besides having scored 50+ for 7 years if I'm not mistaken. You can't even compare these players at their peak, much less in their careers.
 
Isafim said:
Dominates his wing, makes penetrating runs through the box, plays in beautiful crosses, shoots difficult shots that either hit the post or forced a fingertip save and dribbles on long runs beating defenders, he has being able to out-jump every defender in the world to score headers and win/retain possession, out-sprint every player on every field that he takes, hit free-kicks from extremely long distances and acute angles, ability to switch to his weak side to dribble, shoot AND pass with almost equal effectiveness, shoot with devastating power and accuracy from 35 yards, possessed skills and foot-work while dribbling to create space and gain positional advantage, adapts to new teammates and managers without any dip on form from season to season, outstanding off the ball movement and uses his vision to anticipate space and breakdown defenses, 80%+ penalty taker, did Rainbows, Rabonas, 360's, Elasticos, Chops, Cruyff Turns, Scissors or Step-Overs, etc... Shooted from back-heels and volleys or back-heel volleys..... bicycle's, scissor kicks, sliding/diving/flying in.... creating a shot or pass after using any of these aforementioned tricks/flicks/skills and use his shoulders, back, neck, knees, hips, or ass to flick or pass or shoot.

On top of all that, in his best year, R9 scored 59 goals. CR7 scored 60+ in 4 consecutive. Besides having scored 50+ for 7 years if I'm not mistaken. You can't even compare these players at their peak, much less in their careers.
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You just keep naming the same things over and over and I’m still none the wiser to what are the other attributes he offers. Most of them R9 does better also I mean are you really naming elastico and tricks and flicks has something he offers that R9 doesn’t, hilarious.
 
I despise CR for all the shit he has caused but I would take prime CR over prime Ronaldo over the course of a season. But if it is only for one game (lets say a final), I would take prime Ronaldo hands down.
 
Righteous Steps said:
You just keep naming the same things over and over and I’m still none the wiser to what are the other attributes he offers. Most of them R9 does better also I mean are you really naming elastico and tricks and flicks has something he offers that R9 doesn’t, hilarious.
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Starting to believe some people adamantly proclaiming the Portugeuse as leagues better, never actually watched the Brazilian outside of YouTube. He quite literally did everything that poster described to prop up CR, at a world class level, tricks/flair included. He was a true artist with the things he could with the ball, on a level that CR's machine like profile and presence could never replicate even in his younger days.
 
Righteous Steps said:
You just keep naming the same things over and over and I’m still none the wiser to what are the other attributes he offers. Most of them R9 does better also I mean are you really naming elastico and tricks and flicks has something he offers that R9 doesn’t, hilarious.
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The only thing R9 did better is humiliating the keeper, and maybe was more elegant on the ball, That's it. Now things CR7 was *much* better at:
Long Range
Passing (crossing and penetrating balls)
Chances creation (CR7 consistently ranked among Europe highest chance creators in the early 2010s, For some it would be hard to believe but he created as many chances as Messi, R9 was always average on the creative side)
Shooting Technique
Free Kicks
Aerial
Counter Attacks Management
Assisting

Things CR7 was slightly better at:
Goalscoring
Off Ball
Clutchness/Winning Games single handedly
Ball Progression

Equal in:
Overall dribbling-R9 dribbling was great but largely overrated, He used to lose possession a lot every game and didn't take on as many players as many believe. There are concrete evidences that CR7 took as much people per game as Ronaldinho did (CR7 was the most prolific dribbler in the champions league between his united stint to the first-second year in madrid), He was only second to Messi in La Liga+UCL in his first 5 seasons in madrid, He was known as elite dribbler. Sure, Number of take ons don't tell the whole story but CR7 basically has all the evidence (Stats, Solo goals, Highlights, Consensus etc) to support he was among the best in the world for many years.
Pace-R9 take the acceleration bit while i believe CR7 was faster at full stride
Weak foot


Slightly worse:
Flair-While CR7 was no joke, R9 was innovator and made things look better
Tight Space executions
Grace


Much worse:
Dribbling the keeper

I struggle to see how R9 was better in his prime, More exciting to watch? Maybe and that's very debatable, But he just wasn't as refined and complete as prime CR7 was, That could be because we only seen his 21 version pre injuries which was still raw, but that's all we've got unfortunately.
 
CrockedRain said:
The only thing R9 did better is humiliating the keeper, and maybe was more elegant on the ball, That's it. Now things CR7 was *much* better at:
Long Range
Passing (crossing and penetrating balls)
Chances creation (CR7 consistently ranked among Europe highest chance creators in the early 2010s, For some it would be hard to believe but he created as many chances as Messi, R9 was always average on the creative side)
Shooting Technique
Free Kicks
Aerial
Counter Attacks Management
Assisting

Things CR7 was slightly better at:
Goalscoring
Off Ball
Clutchness/Winning Games single handedly
Ball Progression

Equal in:
Overall dribbling-R9 dribbling was great but largely overrated, He used to lose possession a lot every game and didn't take on as many players as many believe. There are concrete evidences that CR7 took as much people per game as Ronaldinho did (CR7 was the most prolific dribbler in the champions league between his united stint to the first-second year in madrid), He was only second to Messi in La Liga+UCL in his first 5 seasons in madrid, He was known as elite dribbler. Sure, Number of take ons don't tell the whole story but CR7 basically has all the evidence (Stats, Solo goals, Highlights, Consensus etc) to support he was among the best in the world for many years.
Pace-R9 take the acceleration bit while i believe CR7 was faster at full stride
Weak foot


Slightly worse:
Flair-While CR7 was no joke, R9 was innovator and made things look better
Tight Space executions
Grace


Much worse:
Dribbling the keeper

I struggle to see how R9 was better in his prime, More exciting to watch? Maybe and that's very debatable, But he just wasn't as refined and complete as prime CR7 was, That could be because we only seen his 21 version pre injuries which was still raw, but that's all we've got unfortunately.
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CR7 created as many chances as messi? Colour me surprised, any charts or studies to confirm that?

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/big-chances-created/
 
CrockedRain said:
twitter.com/WhoScored/status/506779102763044864
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Nice finding a tweet from 2014, with only la liga and only open play.

We are in 2022 and the stats are in the messivronaldo webpage, are you saying you have even more updated/accurate stats or do you need more caveats?
 
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Swoobs said:
Nice finding a tweet from 2014, with only la liga and only open play.

We are in 2022 and the stats are in the messivronaldo webpage, are you saying you have even more updated/accurate stats or do you need more caveats?
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Are you sure you're in the right thread? This was taken in the context that *prime* CR7 was a much better creator than R9.

Also, How's that stat no valid? It comes directly from whoscored, a site the "messivsronaldo webpage" claim to source, If any the latter is more questionable. Are you claiming Open Play stats aren't valid when Messi clearly was barca corners and set pieces taker since Xavi departure/decline and Ronaldo never was because his aerial threat was too good to go to waste? How's that fair comparison then? And looking in that app, Ronaldo created more big chances than Messi in 3 out of 5 seasons between 2010-2014 (CR7 prime before his knee injury and changing of playstyle) including set pieces and corners (Although Messi wasn't Barcelona man to take those, He still did from time to time, Certainly far more than CR7), And this exclude his United years which some would argue were CR7 peak creativity years.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
Wait, is open play bad now?
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Not that it is bad, it is just not all encompassing. Just like not la liga is bad, just that it narrows the scope.
You know what is bad though, using a 2014 tweet in 2022 when both players are playing throughout, as a counter to a real time updated website tracker, that is bad, scrapping the bottom of a barrel bad.

I am still waiting for a chart/stats showing that CR7 is as good as messi in chance creation, quite disappointed at a 2014 tweet, surely your madrid fam can do better
 
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Righteous Steps said:
You just keep naming the same things over and over and I’m still none the wiser to what are the other attributes he offers. Most of them R9 does better also I mean are you really naming elastico and tricks and flicks has something he offers that R9 doesn’t, hilarious.
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You are certainly trolling. Please list here, from the things I mentioned, which was R9 better? CR7 is arguably the best aerial player in history. The variety of finishing is far beyond R9. I mean, weak foot, heading, outside the box, volley, back-heels, etc... As I said, he shot, passed and dribbled using the aforementioned skills with both feet with virtually equal precision. Are you really going to say that R9 was better than CR7 at most of these things? The only thing that R9 maybe and just maybe was better than CR7 was dribbling but even that is debatable. Not to mention CR7's playmaking which is so underrated and which was clearly superior to that of R9.
 
One way or another, comparing CR7 and R9 based on stats without context makes no sense at all. When Cristiano was at Real Madrid, they scored 100-110 goals per season. When R9 was at Inter, those teams scored maybe 50-60 goals per season. And when he was at Barca, probably between 60 and 80.

I do think Cristiano's prime 2008-2014 is pretty underrated these days because many forget what a lethal dribbler and creator he used to be on top of his goal record. But that doesn't mean he reached the same heights as R9 did. That guy in the same streamined and optimized setup with such qualitative advantages in almost every position and almost every game would produce unreal stats.
 
Swoobs said:
CR7 created as many chances as messi? Colour me surprised, any charts or studies to confirm that?

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/big-chances-created/
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I don't know if you read the part where he said "in the early 2010's" and the link you sent confirms this even more. Before the 14/15 season (until the time of the knee illness) the numbers were well close. Also he said "created chances" which is different from the "big chances created" you sent. And yet that's right if you look at the period he mentioned.

Now tell me, why do you respond to something specific in his comment and not respond to the main point of the whole argument?
 
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Zehner said:
One way or another, comparing CR7 and R9 based on stats without context makes no sense at all. When Cristiano was at Real Madrid, they scored 100-110 goals per season. When R9 was at Inter, those teams scored maybe 50-60 goals per season. And when he was at Barca, probably between 60 and 80.

I do think Cristiano's prime 2008-2014 is pretty underrated these days because many forget what a lethal dribbler and creator he used to be on top of his goal record. But that doesn't mean he reached the same heights as R9 did. That guy in the same streamined and optimized setup with such qualitative advantages in almost every position and almost every game would produce unreal stats.
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Ronaldo was the reason madrid became high scoring team, The evidence couldn't be more clear:

Real Madrid averaged 77 goals per league season in the 3 years preceding Ronaldo arrival.
Real Madrid averaged 109 goals per league season in the 3 years following Ronaldo arrival.
Real Madrid averaged 103 goals per league season in the last 3 years of Ronaldo time in Madrid.
Real Madrid averaged 66 goals per league season in the 3 years following Ronaldo departure.

In R9 peak goalscoring season Barcelona scored 103 goals in league campaign, Not the 60-80 figure you posted.

You can think R9 was better, fine, It's your opinion, But there's *much* more grounded in reality case to make for CR7 being the superior footballer with very little "what could've been?", Ronaldo kept up with peak Messi better than probably any player ever could, And as i showed it wasn't only in term of goalscoring, But his all around play was amazing too (Still slightly inferior to peak Messi, but well, It's fecking peak Messi).
 
CrockedRain said:
Are you sure you're in the right thread? This was taken in the context that *prime* CR7 was a much better creator than R9.

Also, How's that stat no valid? It comes directly from whoscored, a site the "messivsronaldo webpage" claim to source, If any the latter is more questionable. Are you claiming Open Play stats aren't valid when Messi clearly was barca corners and set pieces taker since Xavi departure/decline and Ronaldo never was because his aerial threat was too good to go to waste? How's that fair comparison then? And looking in that app, Ronaldo created more big chances than Messi in 3 out of 5 seasons between 2010-2014 (CR7 prime before his knee injury and changing of playstyle) including set pieces and corners (Although Messi wasn't Barcelona man to take those, He still did from time to time, Certainly far more than CR7), And this exclude his United years which some would argue were CR7 peak creativity years.
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So because messi takes the corners we have to remove those chances created, then we should remove the headed goals/long shots goals from resulted directly from corners goals from CR7 as well. To be fair isnt it?

On whoscored, I never discredited it. I am only laughing at that it is a 2014 tweet. However if you meant only the period 2009-2014, then stats proved you right. But if you meant their their entire professional career, then it is ridiculously wrong.
 
Isafim said:
I don't know if you read the part where he said "in the early 2010's" and the link you sent confirms this even more. Before the 14/15 season (until the time of the knee illness) the numbers were well close. Also he said "created chances" which is different from the "big chances created" you sent. And yet that's right if you look at the period he mentioned.

Now tell me, why do you respond to something specific in his comment and not respond to the main point of the whole argument?
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Because that specific in his comment is wrong, but if he meant 2009-2014 very specifically then sure I can live with it.
Regarding R9 vs CR7 I actually agree with most of his post except that I do not think CR7 is better in shooting technique/accuracy you mean? than R9. I mean it is well known that CR7 is a volume shooter, but if you have stats of goals/shots ratio for both then we can conclude.

I also do not think CR7 is a equal dribbler, I mean comeon. CR7 equal in dribbling to R9?

For what its worth, in my personal all time list Cr7 is above R9 by quite a margin, but many here are arguing peak vs peak and that for me has to go to R9
 
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Swoobs said:
Nice finding a tweet from 2014, with only la liga and only open play.

We are in 2022 and the stats are in the messivronaldo webpage, are you saying you have even more updated/accurate stats or do you need more caveats?
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He did mentioned its during early 2010 to be fair, which was during Ronaldo’s performance peak years too. You can’t just using R9 peak years to compare with Ronaldo non peaks years to suit your arguments here.
 
CrockedRain said:
The only thing R9 did better is humiliating the keeper, and maybe was more elegant on the ball, That's it. Now things CR7 was *much* better at:
Long Range
Passing (crossing and penetrating balls)
Chances creation (CR7 consistently ranked among Europe highest chance creators in the early 2010s, For some it would be hard to believe but he created as many chances as Messi, R9 was always average on the creative side)
Shooting Technique
Free Kicks
Aerial
Counter Attacks Management
Assisting

Things CR7 was slightly better at:
Goalscoring
Off Ball
Clutchness/Winning Games single handedly
Ball Progression

Equal in:
Overall dribbling-R9 dribbling was great but largely overrated, He used to lose possession a lot every game and didn't take on as many players as many believe. There are concrete evidences that CR7 took as much people per game as Ronaldinho did (CR7 was the most prolific dribbler in the champions league between his united stint to the first-second year in madrid), He was only second to Messi in La Liga+UCL in his first 5 seasons in madrid, He was known as elite dribbler. Sure, Number of take ons don't tell the whole story but CR7 basically has all the evidence (Stats, Solo goals, Highlights, Consensus etc) to support he was among the best in the world for many years.
Pace-R9 take the acceleration bit while i believe CR7 was faster at full stride
Weak foot


Slightly worse:
Flair-While CR7 was no joke, R9 was innovator and made things look better
Tight Space executions
Grace


Much worse:
Dribbling the keeper

I struggle to see how R9 was better in his prime, More exciting to watch? Maybe and that's very debatable, But he just wasn't as refined and complete as prime CR7 was, That could be because we only seen his 21 version pre injuries which was still raw, but that's all we've got unfortunately.
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Great Post.

Although I would say R9 is more explosive and has slightly better acceleration than Cristiano, even though Cristiano is very fast.

People just don’t realise how good Cristiano was during his performance peak (late 2000s + early 2010s), instead they keep using their nostalgic impression of R9 during his short peak (96-98) to compare with their impression of Cristiano during his non peak but most successful/iconic years (mid late 2010s).
 
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Zehner said:
One way or another, comparing CR7 and R9 based on stats without context makes no sense at all. When Cristiano was at Real Madrid, they scored 100-110 goals per season. When R9 was at Inter, those teams scored maybe 50-60 goals per season. And when he was at Barca, probably between 60 and 80.

I do think Cristiano's prime 2008-2014 is pretty underrated these days because many forget what a lethal dribbler and creator he used to be on top of his goal record. But that doesn't mean he reached the same heights as R9 did. That guy in the same streamined and optimized setup with such qualitative advantages in almost every position and almost every game would produce unreal stats.
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You are not wrong in making some valid points there. But don’t you think part of reasons they scored 100+ goals per season, is because of Ronaldo/Messi?

Take Real Madrid for example

00-01 - 81 goals
01-02 - 69 goals
(R9 joins)
02-03 - 86 goals
03-04 - 72 goals
04-05 - 71 goals
05-06 - 70 goals
06-07 - 66 goals
(R9 leaves)
07-08 - 84 goals
08-09 - 83 goals
(Cristiano joins)
09-10 - 102 goals
10-11 - 102 goals
11-12 - 121 goals
12-13 - 103 goals
13-14 - 104 goals
14-15 - 118 goals
15-16 - 110 goals
16-17 - 106 goals
17-18 - 94 goals
(Cristiano leaves)
18-19 - 63 goals
19-20 - 70 goals
20-21 - 67 goals
21-22 - 80 goals

Coincidence? I don’t think so. I really think Real scoring 100+ seasons is at least partly because of Ronaldo, if not mostly. Or let’s look at it this way, they are great team last season but even so, they could only manage 80 goals, which is still within their norm (around 60-80 range).

Now let’s look at R9 peak season at Barca

Barca

95-96 - 72 goals
(R9 joins)
96-97 - 102 goal
(R9 leaves)
97-97 - 78 goals

I think this pretty much align with Cristiano years before and after he joins/leaves Real. Therefore you can’t just use team scoring 100+ goals to make such claim against Ronaldo. R9 is the reason Barca scoring 100+ goals, in the same way Cristiano is the reason Real scoring 100+ goals.

Therefore, peak Cristiano is clearly better goal scorer than peak R9, as Cristiano has significantly improved his team overall scoring for at least over 9 seasons (not including his Man Utd years) vs R9 1 season. Not to mention Cristiano has scored significantly more goals (61) in his peak season than R9 too (47).
 
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Zehner said:
One way or another, comparing CR7 and R9 based on stats without context makes no sense at all. When Cristiano was at Real Madrid, they scored 100-110 goals per season. When R9 was at Inter, those teams scored maybe 50-60 goals per season. And when he was at Barca, probably between 60 and 80.

I do think Cristiano's prime 2008-2014 is pretty underrated these days because many forget what a lethal dribbler and creator he used to be on top of his goal record. But that doesn't mean he reached the same heights as R9 did. That guy in the same streamined and optimized setup with such qualitative advantages in almost every position and almost every game would produce unreal stats.
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Hahaha Barcelona scored 102 goals in the 96/97 (The only Seasons he played there) season in LaLiga

Swoobs said:
Because that specific in his comment is wrong, but if he meant 2009-2014 very specifically then sure I can live with it.
Regarding R9 vs CR7 I actually agree with most of his post except that I do not think CR7 is better in shooting technique/accuracy you mean? than R9. I mean it is well known that CR7 is a volume shooter, but if you have stats of goals/shots ratio for both then we can conclude.

I also do not think CR7 is a equal dribbler, I mean comeon. CR7 equal in dribbling to R9?

For what its worth, in my personal all time list Cr7 is above R9 by quite a margin, but many here are arguing peak vs peak and that for me has to go to R9
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CR7's goal to shot ratio is irrelevant because the shots he takes are far beyond the degree of difficulty of chances R9 takes. R9 doesn't shoot beyond 25 yards on set pieces, he doesn't shoot from distance or off angle with his weak foot, he doesn't attempt super long-range shots and he definitely doesn't get on the end of crosses to attempt low percentage headers.

If you don't think they have the same level of dribbling, I guess you haven't seen CR7's dribbling peak (06/07 to 09/10). Cristiano was the most dribbling player in the UCL and top 5 leagues until 2009. Dribbling like this:

vimeo.com/189467464

"He is 22 years old and he has the same skill factor as Pele and Maradona"

Sir Alex Ferguson
 
RedRonaldo said:
You are not wrong in making some valid points there. But don’t you think part of reasons they scored 100+ goals per season, is because of Ronaldo/Messi?

Take Real Madrid for example

00-01 - 81 goals
01-02 - 69 goals
(R9 joins)
02-03 - 86 goals
03-04 - 72 goals
04-05 - 71 goals
05-06 - 70 goals
06-07 - 66 goals
(R9 leaves)
07-08 - 84 goals
08-09 - 83 goals
(Cristiano joins)
09-10 - 102 goals
10-11 - 102 goals
11-12 - 121 goals
12-13 - 103 goals
13-14 - 104 goals
14-15 - 118 goals
15-16 - 110 goals
16-17 - 106 goals
17-18 - 94 goals
(Cristiano leaves)
18-19 - 63 goals
19-20 - 70 goals
20-21 - 67 goals
21-22 - 80 goals

Coincidence? I don’t think so. I really think Real scoring 100+ seasons is at least partly because of Ronaldo, if not mostly. Or let’s look at it this way, they are great team last season but even so, they could only manage 80 goals, which is still within their norm (around 60-80 range).

Now let’s look at R9 peak season at Barca

Barca

95-96 - 72 goals
(R9 joins)
96-97 - 102 goal
(R9 leaves)
97-97 - 78 goals

I think this pretty much align with Cristiano years before and after he joins/leaves Real. Therefore you can’t just use team scoring 100+ goals to make such claim against Ronaldo. R9 is the reason Barca scoring 100+ goals, in the same way Cristiano is the reason Real scoring 100+ goals.

Therefore, peak Cristiano is clearly better goal scorer than peak R9, as Cristiano has significantly improved his team overall scoring for at least over 9 seasons (not including his Man Utd years) vs R9 1 season. Not to mention Cristiano has scored significantly more goals (61) in his peak season than R9 too (47).
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Of course it is "at least partly" because of Cristiano. I mean, the guy scored 50 goals a season for a good amount of time. This still had much to do with the emergence of super teams. Madrid was a well drilled machine with Cristiano as the target player. It's not a coincidence that we have so many teams scoring so many goals these days, it is a development of the modern era which has multiple causes. One is definitely the allocation of wealth among clubs and the second most important probably the systemization of football with much more professional coaching, scouting and tactics. Cristiano was one of the most important players in this system so taking him out of it was always going to shock it for a while. That Cristiano in 17/18 wasn't that individual force anymore can also be seen when you take a look at Juve's goal records. 75, 77, 86 - CR7 joins - 70, 76, 77. And that's ignoring the introduction of VAR which lead to players scoring double digits of penalties, leading to a higher goal average for teams.

To ignore all that when comparing R9 and CR7 doesn't make sense.

Isafim said:
Hahaha Barcelona scored 102 goals in the 96/97 (The only Seasons he played there) season in LaLiga
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Which is why I spoke of "averages".


Barca:

94/95: 60 goals
95/96: 72 goals
96/97: 102 goals
97/98: 78 goals
98/99: 87 goals

80 goals on average.


Inter:

95/96: 51 goals
96/97: 51 goals
97/98: 62 goals
98/99: 59 goals
99/00: 58 goals

56 goals on average.

If you don't get that this isn't comparable with La Liga in the 2010s, I can't help you.
 
Isafim said:
You are certainly trolling. Please list here, from the things I mentioned, which was R9 better? CR7 is arguably the best aerial player in history. The variety of finishing is far beyond R9. I mean, weak foot, heading, outside the box, volley, back-heels, etc... As I said, he shot, passed and dribbled using the aforementioned skills with both feet with virtually equal precision. Are you really going to say that R9 was better than CR7 at most of these things? The only thing that R9 maybe and just maybe was better than CR7 was dribbling but even that is debatable. Not to mention CR7's playmaking which is so underrated and which was clearly superior to that of R9.
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Isafim said:
You are certainly trolling. Please list here, from the things I mentioned, which was R9 better? CR7 is arguably the best aerial player in history. The variety of finishing is far beyond R9. I mean, weak foot, heading, outside the box, volley, back-heels, etc... As I said, he shot, passed and dribbled using the aforementioned skills with both feet with virtually equal precision. Are you really going to say that R9 was better than CR7 at most of these things? The only thing that R9 maybe and just maybe was better than CR7 was dribbling but even that is debatable. Not to mention CR7's playmaking which is so underrated and which was clearly superior to that of R9.
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R9 is better because he can actually score goals in the knockout rounds of the World Cup....
 
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