R9 , for me but I'm always going to be swayed more by nostalgia with a superstar from a period of football that was at its peak for me in the 90's.
Ronaldo vs Ronaldo
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Definitely playing with Rivaldo, R10, Roberto Carlos, Cafu among others. Against CR7 playing with Postiga, Quaresma, Eder, etc... How about we compare both in the UCL knockout round? That's a slur because CR7 is the top scorer in the final stages of the Champions League history. Arguably the highest level of football at club level. R9 doesn't even compare despite having played with Zidane, Figo, Roberto Carlos, Beckham, etc... In the world cup you need to be lucky enough to be born in a country with good players. I mean, Portugal has barely made it past the round of 16 of the world cup in almost every cup Cristiano has played in. Brazil was champion in 94, runner-up in 98 and champion in 02. Congratulations on the very fair comparison of R9 with CR7 in the World Cup knockout stage.
If I'm not mistaken the purpose of the topic is to compare the peak of both (because in the career it doesn't even compare) right? So it doesn't even make sense for you to mention Juventus. You know what else doesn't make sense? You quote Barcelona's goal average since R9 only played one season there and that season Barcelona scored 102 goals. The other seasons don't matter because he wasn't there.
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Of course it does matter because it shows how many goals were being scored in that era. I would go even further and list the goals scored of other top teams in those times to show that European football was subject to a huge goal inflation between R9's and CR7's prime which mostly benefited top teams but I'm to lazy for that. Which is why it doesn't make sense to compare goal statistics when both players played in completely different eras. I really don't get what's so hard to understand about that.
I mean, in the whole 90s, it happened only twice that a La Liga team scored more than 100 goals. In the 2010s, it happened on 14 (!) occasions. In Serie A, no team managed even 80 goals. In 94, Milan won the league with 36. Bierhoff's goal total of 27 was the highest scoring record in almost 40 years. And you just go with "well, R9 scored less than CR7, he's obviously worse".
Cristiano all day every day. I don’t even think this is a fair comparison. Cristiano is a tier above in football history. He scored more goals regularly for Madrid than R9’s very best years in Barcelona or Holland.
Apart from his game against us in the CL… I don’t remember many other huge performances in club football in Europe. CR7 I can name many obviously.
The World Cup is the only argument but even then the idea CR7 wouldn’t have scored just as many if not more goals than R9 did in that Brazil side is speculative at best.
Not to mention CR7 proved it for years longer week in week out.
If you adjusted the goalposts and said teams scored less in the 90’s on average CR7 would probably still win (just) as he scored a good 20 goals more per season at his peak than R9 ever managed.
Apart from his game against us in the CL… I don’t remember many other huge performances in club football in Europe. CR7 I can name many obviously.
The World Cup is the only argument but even then the idea CR7 wouldn’t have scored just as many if not more goals than R9 did in that Brazil side is speculative at best.
Not to mention CR7 proved it for years longer week in week out.
If you adjusted the goalposts and said teams scored less in the 90’s on average CR7 would probably still win (just) as he scored a good 20 goals more per season at his peak than R9 ever managed.
Ronaldo was the better player, no doubt. Cristiano achieved more though. But as players, Brazilian was just better.
No doubt whatsoever.
CR7 was a bigger threat in the air. That is - literally - it.
In terms of their careers/impact on football history - that is, of course, a different kind of discussion.
But in terms of how good they were at their peak, it's obviously Ronaldo (the real one).
Even if in Cristiano's time the average of goals is higher than in R9's time, this difference may disappear if we look at the percentage of involvement in goals of both.
R9 in 96/97 made 34 goals and 9 assists contributing directly to 43 of Barcelona's 102 goals in LaLiga. 42,15% goal contribution.
CR7 in 11/12 made 46 goals and 12 assists contributing directly to 58 of Real Madrid's 121 goals in LaLiga. 47,93% goal contribution.
You think Brazilian Ronaldo has a better weak foot, better shot from distance, better movement in the box etc?
Edit googled it, only 5 players have scored more goals than Ronaldo with his left foot and they’re all left footed players. Going by total goals CR7 left footed goals alone would account for over a third of Brazilian Ronaldos total goals.
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Ronaldo also played with Figo, Deco, Carvalho, Nuno Gomes etc and was still unable to register a single goal or assist in the KO rounds of the World Cup. By the way, here is a list of players who have scored more goals in the World Cup than Ronaldo despite playing in fewer tournaments and playing for small or unfancied nations:
Sandor Kocsis - Hungary
Grzegorz Lato - Poland
Teofilo Cubillas - Peru
Eusebio - Portugal (!)
All these guys were also able to score goals in the knockout rounds of the World Cup. So you have no argument.
I'm sure Pele scored more left footed goals than C Ronaldo and he is not left footed.
Massively factually incorrect when it comes to goals. Barca in Ronaldo’s season scored 143 goals in total, from which 102 in the league. Inter in Ronaldo’s first season scored 90, from which 62 in the league.
Especially at Barca, there was not much difference on scoring to Ronaldo/Messi at Madrid/Barca.
Jesus, the numbers again.
Ronaldo (original) was very good with both feet. CR7 was also very good with both feet.
Next you'll be pointing out how many goals from distance CR7 scored (without context whatsoever, no doubt). Who cares?
The only area where CR7 stands out as being clearly/obviously better than R9 is aerial ability. CR7 was exceptionally good in the air, one of the greatest ever - nobody will deny this.
No. Just no.
I'm not even one of those butthurt lads moaning about Cristiano. From the first "only god knows" I knew what the deal was.
Neither is in the top tier. Ronaldo could have, but injuries took that away. They are in the Demi-God tier.
If you are a Real fan, then yes, Cristiano is up there and Ronaldo was just lovely to have.
R9 was one of those players whose games I would tune into, just to watch him play. He was just capable of doing something extraordinary at any moment. Pre-injury, he is there or thereabouts the best player I have ever seen. For me, he was better in almost every way to CR7, except heading. CR7 certainly had the better career, because he was a relentless, physical machine, but Ronaldo was so much more fun to watch, and his absolute peak was better. Ronaldo gave me goosebumps with some of his performances, whereas Cristiano was never a player I would tune into a game just to watch. Of all the all time greats one can think up, Messi, Maradona, Ronaldo Nazario, Ronaldinho, Pele, etc etc, Cristiano is the least entertaining and fun to watch; and that for me is a huge part of football.
All that aside:
Better player: Ronaldo
Better career: Cristiano
All that aside:
Better player: Ronaldo
Better career: Cristiano
Since 2000. long enough sample size at this stage.
plus I’m not really comparing him to Pele, it’s Ronaldo and this mythical few seasons in the mid 90s
So you’re saying Brazilian Ronaldo has a better weak foot based off of chills and feels? Or how you felt as a boy in 97 watching his highlights on channel 4?
How else can you judge it if not goals?
I understand these huge numbers and record after record being broken becomes tiring to read after about 2 decades but boiling goals down to numbers when comparing strikers is beyond fecking ridiculous .
This is obviously true.
There is very little between 'em in terms of how they should be ranked in a historical context, ultimately. What one of them lacks in raw ability is compensated for by his achievements. Or the other way around.
Whatever - they are both below the uppermost tier.
Both Ronaldos are roughly around the level of Müller for me. Which is an insanely high level - but not the very highest.
They're not mythical, most of us saw them.
That’s another question. Where? I was struggling to watch one Serie A match a week on channel four never mind the week to week coverage of mid 90s PSV?
Every game?
What? You can watch the player.
Do you seriously think that the only way to judge how well a player uses his weaker foot is how many goals he scores using that foot? How would you even begin to assess a player who doesn't score much?
Also, do you think that any of this matters much when judging who the better player was - ultimately - when it's clear enough that both players were very comfortable using their weaker foot?
I'm disputing the notion that enough people watched enough of Ronaldo's games in the late 90s to have a formed opinion on this.
Which is why statistics, while imperfect, provide a somewhat unbiased way of comparing the two players.
Side note: a lot is made of Ronaldo Fenomeno's (henceforth referred to as Ronaldo) dribbling ability, and I'm starting to agree with @cyberman (shock) that many are overly inflating the value of dribbling relative to other skills. Did Ronaldo dribble from midfield for every goal? How many goals did he do this? How many amazing and effective dribbles did he have per game?
Who? Ronaldo?
You can't possibly claim that there isn't enough material for him? There's this thing called the Internet...you can probably find something there.
If they haven't, they can do so.
These games are available to watch.
From a brief search just now, most of his appearances for Barca and Real Madrid are available on Footballia.
They're not only inflating dribbling relative to other skills, But inflating R9 dribbling ability while deflating Cristiano's, The latter has as many solo goals in his career up if not more, Was superior at progressing the ball and finding dead space, and very possibly dribbled more players per game in his prime (CR7 played deeper so that could be an advantage).
I don't doubt that, but I maintain a good amount of people on this topic are using their memories of Ronaldo (skewed by a few memorable performances/highlights) as a proxy for Ronaldo's actual output during what is being defined as his peak, which is why when stats are brought into the conversation, they're dismissed conveniently.
O-fenomeno is the greatest player to ever play the game. We need to stop comparing others to him.
That is possible.
It is also (more than) possible that many are now positively underrating CR7 in several respects. Because he's such a monumental cnut, etc.
But people are actually at considerable liberty to study Ronaldo (the original) in depth. Mostly free of charge too.
So that part is no excuse.
for sure Cristiano had a better career, and will be remembered in the next 30 years as the better player, cause of achievements and all. If I was given an opportunity to watch a peak Cristiano or a peak R9, it will be R9 all day. During his time at Barca and Inter I remember CNN would always have him as play of the week or something like that, he was literally breathtaking. If attackers had the same protection as they do now we would have seen a different story. He made the Italian league look like a cakewalk when it was considered the toughest to play in.
You don't really believe that? He's not even in the top 10. People really do overrate R9 and its crazy how underrated Cristiano is to people on this forum due to their distain for him.
I am trying my best to be as fair as possible:
Best game - R9 (55/45, debatable, R9 most memorable game is against us, but already past his peak. He did scored a crazy solo goals for Barca)
Best season - Cristiano (60/40, 61 goals 23 assists in 54 games > 47 goals 12 assists in 49 games)
Peak - R9 (55/45, debatable, and partly down to nostalgia reason, in terms of subjective perception based on their best performance)
Longevity at top level - Cristiano (90/10, not even close)
Talent - R9 (60/40, young R9 is simply the best ever at his age, but young Cristiano is also an amazing talent which impress everyone)
Mentality - Cristiano (70/30)
Clutchness - Cristiano (70/30)
Consistency - Cristiano (80/20, not even close)
Excitement - R9 (60/40)
Effectiveness - Cristiano (60/40)
Seasonal stats - Cristiano (60/40)
Career stats - Cristiano (80/20, not even close)
Individual honours - Cristiano (70/30)
Team trophies - Cristiano (60/40, international trophies worth more credits, so its should get nearer than it appears)
Club career - Cristiano (90/10, not even close)
International career - R9 (70/30)
Skills/technique - R9 (60/40)
Physical/Athleticism - tie (50/50, now this is hard, R9 is slightly more explosive/faster acceleration, but Cristiano has slightly better athleticism)
Best attributes - R9 (60/40, R9 is so good at running/dribbling with the ball at full speed, just this alone makes him most unstoppable)
Overall attributes - Cristiano (60/40, Cristiano has more variety of strength - pace/tricks/dribbling/shooting/movement/heading/freekicks etc)
Playmaking - Cristiano (60/40, at their peak Cristiano creates far more chances than R9. Overall speaking Cristiano has far more assists too)
Goalscoring - Cristiano (60/40, Cristiano is one of best goalscorer in history. R9 isn't, but he is capable of scoring goals in his peak)
Feel free to agree or disagree.
Best game - R9 (55/45, debatable, R9 most memorable game is against us, but already past his peak. He did scored a crazy solo goals for Barca)
Best season - Cristiano (60/40, 61 goals 23 assists in 54 games > 47 goals 12 assists in 49 games)
Peak - R9 (55/45, debatable, and partly down to nostalgia reason, in terms of subjective perception based on their best performance)
Longevity at top level - Cristiano (90/10, not even close)
Talent - R9 (60/40, young R9 is simply the best ever at his age, but young Cristiano is also an amazing talent which impress everyone)
Mentality - Cristiano (70/30)
Clutchness - Cristiano (70/30)
Consistency - Cristiano (80/20, not even close)
Excitement - R9 (60/40)
Effectiveness - Cristiano (60/40)
Seasonal stats - Cristiano (60/40)
Career stats - Cristiano (80/20, not even close)
Individual honours - Cristiano (70/30)
Team trophies - Cristiano (60/40, international trophies worth more credits, so its should get nearer than it appears)
Club career - Cristiano (90/10, not even close)
International career - R9 (70/30)
Skills/technique - R9 (60/40)
Physical/Athleticism - tie (50/50, now this is hard, R9 is slightly more explosive/faster acceleration, but Cristiano has slightly better athleticism)
Best attributes - R9 (60/40, R9 is so good at running/dribbling with the ball at full speed, just this alone makes him most unstoppable)
Overall attributes - Cristiano (60/40, Cristiano has more variety of strength - pace/tricks/dribbling/shooting/movement/heading/freekicks etc)
Playmaking - Cristiano (60/40, at their peak Cristiano creates far more chances than R9. Overall speaking Cristiano has far more assists too)
Goalscoring - Cristiano (60/40, Cristiano is one of best goalscorer in history. R9 isn't, but he is capable of scoring goals in his peak)
Feel free to agree or disagree.
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How many of us watched every game of Ronaldo at Madrid(I certainly didn’t).
Dribbling falls more along the line of ball control, touch, and is probably one of the main facets to judge a players technique alongside passing, and again ball control,
It can not be overrated, the very best players were all time great dribblers, Messi Pelé Maradona Cruyff, this is no coincidence.
He can think that in the same way some would say George Best is the best player they’ve seen....
Ronaldo is in mine and a lot of people’s top 10 also.
Finally a good argument
In his 4.5 peak seasons, R9 was involved in 38%, 42% and 45% of his team's league goals. Cristiano for the most part is in this regions as well but also has a few freak seasons in which he is above 50%, the most outstanding in this context being 14/15.Thing is, if you actually watch those goals, I don't think many would say that this is more impressive than what R9 produced for Barcelona. Madrid was extremely good at utilizing Ronaldo's strengths. in 14/15, he had already cut his dribbling almost completely (1.5 per game) and the team knew perfectly well what kind of passes he needed. He got so much service for those goals while R9's goals were far less "systemized". The difficulty of so many of the 34 goals for Barca is unreal. Difficult finishes, incredible first touches, incredible pace, great solo goals, etc.
Many people say that R9 is an unfinished promise because of his injuries but I also think it is a shame that we never saw him in his prime really settling in for a team.
That's a fair assement. I'd have to agree with most if not all of what you said. Both were pretty fantastic footballers.
If the argument is that R9 is more talented than Cristiano that's pretty obvious, R9 is arguably the most gifted footballer ever alongside Maradona.
But in terms of how good they actually were, surely Cristiano trumps him easily. The guy scored 50+ goals in 5 consecutive seasons playing LW.
I think people who prefer R9 based on him being more fun to watch are equating that with him being a better player to be honest. I think nostalgia bias is playing a part as well.
Eden Hazard is more fun to watch than CR7 either, that doesn't make him a better player. Prime Cristiano before his knee injury is arguably the most dangerous attacker of all time.
But in terms of how good they actually were, surely Cristiano trumps him easily. The guy scored 50+ goals in 5 consecutive seasons playing LW.
I think people who prefer R9 based on him being more fun to watch are equating that with him being a better player to be honest. I think nostalgia bias is playing a part as well.
Eden Hazard is more fun to watch than CR7 either, that doesn't make him a better player. Prime Cristiano before his knee injury is arguably the most dangerous attacker of all time.
To be honest in terms of raw talent there's an argument that Rooney is more talented than Cristiano (though Rooney's had an adult body pretty early). A loy of people at the time thought Quaresma was a bigger talent as well.
It's not about how much talent you have, it's about what you do with it. R9 was really unlucky with injuries but he had weight issues that he didn't sort out either.
It's not about how much talent you have, it's about what you do with it. R9 was really unlucky with injuries but he had weight issues that he didn't sort out either.
There is no argument that Rooney is a bigger talent than Cristiano, not since 06.