Up there for the worst post of the year. Give your head a wobble ffs.
Ronaldo vs Ronaldo
- Thread starter altodevil
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I'm going to start this post by saying that I believe the standard of football and therefore footballers are exponentially increasing with regards to fitness, media exposure, tactics, sports science... probably applies to most sports. I may be wrong and understand that.
Messi is the most gifted player of all time for me and his achievements back it up as well - basically he makes/made world class defenders look Sunday league level, has the best close control I've ever seen, is probably the best short passer I've ever seen, has amazing stamina, is as good a finisher as anyone ever, wand of a left foot, has longevity only compared to one other player. To add to that he's won everything basically, dominated the ballon d'Or. Could go on it I wanted to.
He's quite far ahead of the rest of them imo.
Second is Cristiano. The past few weeks have tarnished his legacy with alot of football fans which is understandable because we are a fickle bunch.
But after the dust of Messi becoming the GOAT settles (he didn't need to win a cup competition that happens every 4 years to confirm this btw) Cristiano will be remembered as the man who gave Messi the best competition. He had everything you could ask for as a footballer and has done it in multiple leagues. A physical beast, the most varied goalscorer I've ever seen. Also had a wand of a right foot as well as left (just look at how much power he got with his left). Could out jump anyone, out run anyone and has the mentality to be the main man and come up with performances which win games singlehandedly - done it for us, Madrid, Juve, Portugal etc.
There's so much else to say about the two above. But moving on to R9... I was 7 years old when he scored that hattrick at OT and he is probably the one that gave me anxiety watching united play against big European clubs. I also had the same feelings watching us against Arsenal when Henry was at his peak...
However, I have watched alot of videos as an adult of the likes of R9, Henry, Zidane, Ronaldinho and have realised that they were all beautiful footballers but when you consider natural ability, standard of the game, goals and assists, personal honours, team honours and sheer longevity, Messi and Ronaldo are on another wavelength.
There are so many clips of R9 for instance, who I think is Godly, missing goal chances after ripping apart some of the best defenders. Cristiano and Messi mostly put them away.
I'm completely aware that if R9 was born in latest 1980s, remained injury free and was exposed to the advancements in the game then he could have been the best. Same applies to Pele, Maradonna, Best... it's such a healthy debate.
One thing I've always asked myself is, out of every footballer that has ever existed, who would you pick to help you win a game of football? 11 a side, 90 mins, could be amateur, could be CL, WC final with random players?
I'd have to go with Cristiano Ronaldo 09 - 13 because he's the only one that I'm certain would be able to compete physically and mentally in all sorts of footballing environments because he has proven it. I'm not saying he is the best because Messi 2011ish playing with Xavi and Iniesta was freaky shit. That solo run goal he scored against Madrid in the sf at the Bernabéu is the best goal I've ever seen. Running from near the semi circle past the likes of Diarra, Ramos, Marcelo etc and finishing with his right foot on such an occasion.
Messi is the most gifted player of all time for me and his achievements back it up as well - basically he makes/made world class defenders look Sunday league level, has the best close control I've ever seen, is probably the best short passer I've ever seen, has amazing stamina, is as good a finisher as anyone ever, wand of a left foot, has longevity only compared to one other player. To add to that he's won everything basically, dominated the ballon d'Or. Could go on it I wanted to.
He's quite far ahead of the rest of them imo.
Second is Cristiano. The past few weeks have tarnished his legacy with alot of football fans which is understandable because we are a fickle bunch.
But after the dust of Messi becoming the GOAT settles (he didn't need to win a cup competition that happens every 4 years to confirm this btw) Cristiano will be remembered as the man who gave Messi the best competition. He had everything you could ask for as a footballer and has done it in multiple leagues. A physical beast, the most varied goalscorer I've ever seen. Also had a wand of a right foot as well as left (just look at how much power he got with his left). Could out jump anyone, out run anyone and has the mentality to be the main man and come up with performances which win games singlehandedly - done it for us, Madrid, Juve, Portugal etc.
There's so much else to say about the two above. But moving on to R9... I was 7 years old when he scored that hattrick at OT and he is probably the one that gave me anxiety watching united play against big European clubs. I also had the same feelings watching us against Arsenal when Henry was at his peak...
However, I have watched alot of videos as an adult of the likes of R9, Henry, Zidane, Ronaldinho and have realised that they were all beautiful footballers but when you consider natural ability, standard of the game, goals and assists, personal honours, team honours and sheer longevity, Messi and Ronaldo are on another wavelength.
There are so many clips of R9 for instance, who I think is Godly, missing goal chances after ripping apart some of the best defenders. Cristiano and Messi mostly put them away.
I'm completely aware that if R9 was born in latest 1980s, remained injury free and was exposed to the advancements in the game then he could have been the best. Same applies to Pele, Maradonna, Best... it's such a healthy debate.
One thing I've always asked myself is, out of every footballer that has ever existed, who would you pick to help you win a game of football? 11 a side, 90 mins, could be amateur, could be CL, WC final with random players?
I'd have to go with Cristiano Ronaldo 09 - 13 because he's the only one that I'm certain would be able to compete physically and mentally in all sorts of footballing environments because he has proven it. I'm not saying he is the best because Messi 2011ish playing with Xavi and Iniesta was freaky shit. That solo run goal he scored against Madrid in the sf at the Bernabéu is the best goal I've ever seen. Running from near the semi circle past the likes of Diarra, Ramos, Marcelo etc and finishing with his right foot on such an occasion.
Mike Tyson is probably not even a top 10 heavyweight of all time though.
I actually think the comparison is spot on. Two what ifs who get massively overrated.
When i first saw R9 more extensively around his Barca and Inter days, i thought he was like an upgraded George Weah, mainly due to having elite finishing instead of just good, or sometimes outright inconsistent. The dribbling, ball carrying and link up style was very similar, just with Ronaldo taking some of it to the next level.
You clearly never watched him because you are framing both his knees exploding as an 'excuse'
It's nothing to do with nostalgia or any other such nonsense, it's to do with the fact that he was clearly much better than CR7 as a young player and then suffered an injury that was so serious that it would have ended his career if he'd played in an earlier era, and even in his own era it caused him to MISS TWO AND A HALF YEARS of games before he was able to come back a much reduced player. So please get it right. CR7 has not had to deal with anything remotely like that.
No, it's a ridiculously wrong comparison because Mike Tyson didn't suffer a near career ending injury that he had to recover from.
Yeah, but his coach died and he went to jail.
Most boxing experts have Mike Tyson in the top 10 of best heavyweights of all time. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/713931-boxing-the-10-greatest-heavyweights-of-all-time
There are no what if's in their primes they were freaks considering the ability and records they achieved at such a young age. Til this day Mike Tyson stands as the youngest heavyweight to beceom world champion, just like to this day, R9 is still the youngest player to ever win the Ballon'dor
R7 just about makes top 15 of all time https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/21/50-greatest-footballers-all-time
Obviously cr7 had a better career but think r9 was the more talented player pre injuries
Really? You'd pick Ronaldo from 2009-2013? He was a much better big game player in his later years.
That Ronaldo was also a lesser player cerebrally. His decision making got much better as he aged.
Let's player different what if.
What if Cristiano got injured at the age of 23 like Ronaldo did. Wonder how his career would pan out with him being out whole 2008/09 season and playing sporadically in 2009/10.
What if Cristiano got injured at the age of 23 like Ronaldo did. Wonder how his career would pan out with him being out whole 2008/09 season and playing sporadically in 2009/10.
I'm struggling to pick a precise year hence why I used a 4 year window. IIRC he was peaking as a goalscorer in his latter years at Madrid but as an overall game changer I thought the 2 or 3 years after he left us? My point still stands anyway, Cristiano at his best would be the first player I would pick to help me win a game of football.
Cristiano.
For longevity, injury record and pure numbers. His goal scoring record at Madrid is absolutely insane. Remember he got over 60 goals in one season and had a period about 10 years ago where he seemed to score a hat trick every week
And I think he made United the best team in the World from 2006-2009 almost singlehandedly
For longevity, injury record and pure numbers. His goal scoring record at Madrid is absolutely insane. Remember he got over 60 goals in one season and had a period about 10 years ago where he seemed to score a hat trick every week
And I think he made United the best team in the World from 2006-2009 almost singlehandedly
Those are not physical things. Again, Ronaldo had to miss over 2 years because of his knees. I'm not sure you get how close his career was to being over.
Stylistically I'd prefer R9 in his prime. CR7 no doubt has a better career and better in every stats. But there is no way to compare them in their peak as R9 had so much issues with injuries that we will never know what he could be.
You vastly underestimate Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic in particular.
Not that the rest of that squad were slouches, but those 4 got into any side in the world in that time frame.
You clearly never watched him because you are framing both his knees exploding as an 'excuse'
It's nothing to do with nostalgia or any other such nonsense, it's to do with the fact that he was clearly much better than CR7 as a young player and then suffered an injury that was so serious that it would have ended his career if he'd played in an earlier era, and even in his own era it caused him to MISS TWO AND A HALF YEARS of games before he was able to come back a much reduced player. So please get it right. CR7 has not had to deal with anything remotely like that.
You are right, he "was" better than CR7 until 23 years old... after that he wasn't anymore.
I'm sorry for R9, my favorite player, along with Zidane, as a teenager...but we are discussing what happened, not "what if".
I reckon that if i had to pick a player at his prime, and not caring about longevity/consistency, i would pick R9 over CR7, but that's it.
If i make a list of top 10 of the best in history of football, which includes entire career analysis, I'd definitely put Cristiano ahead of R9, it's not even close.
I don’t. World class players who’d have still made United successful.
But I don’t think the team would have been in consecutive Champions league finals without Ronaldo. He took the team to the next level IMO
He did his best to stop us getting through the semi in 2008 to be fair. Horrific two leg performance.
C.Ronaldo but R9 was special.
One’s ego is as large as the others belly.
Well thats a good way to put it....
R9 is an absolute legend of this game. Football strategies during his era fit his attributes, there was too much space for pacey strikers if you compare it to the 2010s. On other hand, 2010s football fits Messi and CR more, most of the teams sit back against United, Real, and Barcelona.
CR7 attributes like a goal against Porto, a freekick against Arsenal, a header against us, long-range shots, an understanding of counter-attack, and narrow hits, almost everything thing he does was absolutely lethal against any teams that sit back. He was the kind of player who gives a missing piece of the puzzle for top-top teams to win everything.
But I doubt he and Messi could have done the same numbers if teams played like the current pressing strategies, IMO R9 would have been a more valuable striker against these pressing strategies with his speed and dribbling.
CR7 attributes like a goal against Porto, a freekick against Arsenal, a header against us, long-range shots, an understanding of counter-attack, and narrow hits, almost everything thing he does was absolutely lethal against any teams that sit back. He was the kind of player who gives a missing piece of the puzzle for top-top teams to win everything.
But I doubt he and Messi could have done the same numbers if teams played like the current pressing strategies, IMO R9 would have been a more valuable striker against these pressing strategies with his speed and dribbling.
But he wouldn't have though. I'd love to believe R9 was the best ever because he was a phenomenon despite being injury prone and overweight.
Please re watch footage of him at his best and see how many chances he missed, chances that Messi and especially C Ronaldo put away. Its heartbreaking really because I grew up idolising the likes of R9, Zidane, Henry, Figo, Nedved, Ronaldinho, Kaka and everything they did, Messi and C Ronaldo have done whilst breaking goalscorers records and winning so many individual honours.
Excellent post.
I don't think there's anything unreasonable in what you're saying but the fact is that some people value peak performance more than they value consistency/longevity. Some do the opposite. There's no right or wrong answer to this.
Cristiano an all time great had the better career.
1996-1998 Ronaldo is the best striker I have ever seen.
1996-1998 Ronaldo is the best striker I have ever seen.
R7 is the most overrated footballer in history. I wouldn’t put him in top 50 of all time and I will explain.
The best players are the players who will play in a midtable teams like everton or aston villa and will guide them to the top or near the top. Like maradonna did with napoli. Put messi, real ronaldo, even zidane in everton and you can bet your house they will have a huge impact on the team. Same with players like baresi, maldini, even robben. Cristiano ronaldo , probably not. He had 1 amazing season with man itd and thats it. In that season man utd had 1 of the best ever squads as well in world football. The only argument about him being one of the best are his impressive stats but lets dig into it. Bosman rule changed the football world. R7 when in real madrid had the luxury to play in a team where each player value in the team valued more than entire teams in la liga. Add to the fact that penalties are awarded for “some contact” and most games ended 4 or 5-0 and you have a recipe for undeserving stats. Last year in epl he was one of the worst strikers in the leauge yet he scored almost 20 goals. He was better than kdb? Than mane? About R9, what he did when he was 18-20 was better than prime messi. To compare R9 to R7 is like comparing roy keane to nicky butt.
The best players are the players who will play in a midtable teams like everton or aston villa and will guide them to the top or near the top. Like maradonna did with napoli. Put messi, real ronaldo, even zidane in everton and you can bet your house they will have a huge impact on the team. Same with players like baresi, maldini, even robben. Cristiano ronaldo , probably not. He had 1 amazing season with man itd and thats it. In that season man utd had 1 of the best ever squads as well in world football. The only argument about him being one of the best are his impressive stats but lets dig into it. Bosman rule changed the football world. R7 when in real madrid had the luxury to play in a team where each player value in the team valued more than entire teams in la liga. Add to the fact that penalties are awarded for “some contact” and most games ended 4 or 5-0 and you have a recipe for undeserving stats. Last year in epl he was one of the worst strikers in the leauge yet he scored almost 20 goals. He was better than kdb? Than mane? About R9, what he did when he was 18-20 was better than prime messi. To compare R9 to R7 is like comparing roy keane to nicky butt.
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He's definitely overrated but you can't take away he is the greatest goal scorer of all time when you look at his consistency and records he broke, but overall ability he is not on Messi or r9's level when it comes to individual skill, dribbling and playmaking and being able to destroy defences any time. Ronaldo was too dependable on team mates to perform and he is one of the laziest players on the pitch who was reliant on others to do the donkey work and provide him with service. Messi, Robben, and R9 did not need service they made their own goals. I can't speak for Maradonna as have never seen him play.
Social media tweets heralding every goal he scores with youtube hype videos fool people into believing he is some untouchable player who had no weaknesses
Doubtful.. He could not score a single goal in 8 knock-out games in 5 WCs, tends to disappear in NT games against top rivals.. 5 league top goal scorer awards in his career, too few..
Messi easily has a stronger case for the greatest goal scorer of all time, Pele, Muller too..
Yes you're right, I should have said he's one of the greatest goal scorers of all, Messi does have a stronger case as well as being the actual greatest footballer of all time. maradonna is seen as number one but from the short clips I've seen, messi seems to be better and more potent player. Is there anything Maradonna could do that Messi couldn't?
Cristiano is better than Brazilian Ronaldo every way bar dribbling from deep which tactically went out of style at the top level as Cristiano progressed anyway. You can see him change his style up around 26, that wasn’t an accident. There’s a reason why the direct players play from wide for the past 10/15 years.
It’s funny, you go into Messi v Ronaldo threads and it’s about being complete, Ronaldo couldn’t do all the things Messi does. Ronaldo, as an all round player, was better than Brazilian Ronaldo but the over emphasise on dribbling is jarring here because of it.
I’m not saying Brazilian Ronaldo was shit or any sort of extreme nonsense but the change in how to compare players is wildly different than how it’s done in other threads. Look at your last post, you’re talking about CR7 who has the most assists in CL history. Ronaldos best ever league assist season is 17 which is only 3 behind KDBs best ever total yet he didn’t create his own goals? The man destroyed teams on his own, I’ve never seen someone use a ti y bit of spade like Cristiano did. Never. The ability to get any shot off from any angle at any speed may never be matched.
I’m all for feck Ronaldo but it’s weird how this comparison never popped up during Cristianos prime. I wonder why?
No, the player who scored the most goals is the top scorer, the man who holds 99 percent of every goal scoring record ever compiled surely? If someone is a Better scorer than he has to have scored more goals. The man who has scored over 300 goals since turning 30 alone?
Not really, basically Messi=Maradona + stronger goal scoring ability + longevity
I guess replicating that magical goal Maradona scored against England in this WC or something similar would be great
) But, those assists against Croatia and Holland can make up for that.. though Messi had an amazing solo goal against Real Madrid in CL semis, and many other solo goals against lower profile teams in his club career.The very same reasoningbthat works for Messi in the Messi vs Cristiano debate works for R9 as well. I believe you simply never bothered to understand why people picked Messi over CR7. It's definitely not assist stats by the way.
Ronaldo does not even have the record for most Golden Shoes, could only win league top goal scorer award 5 times. Messi alone won 5 in a row between 2018-2022 in 5 years. Ronaldo only won league top goal scorer award once in the last 8 years..
We have a different definition of the greatest goal scorer of all time. I do not think Josef Bican was the greatest goal scorer of all time nor was Ali Daei with the NT..
Context matters.. Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games with NT, 1.1 per game (Ronaldo has 0.6 per game) when you did not have minnows such as Andorra, Faroe, former Soviet Union teams such as Azerbaijan, Armenia etc.. Ronaldo had the perfect environment for stat-padding yet significantly falls short of goal per game and had way way less impact than Muller or Pele in top games, there is no comparison..
Ronaldo against WC winning teams (Germany, France, Italy, Spain, England, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay) 7 goals in 32 games, 0.22 goals per game, I'd say terrible..
Against Lux, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Estonia, Andorra, Kazkhstan, Armenia, North Korea, Faroe, Azerbaijan, 45 goals in 26 games, 1.73 gol goals per game..
0 knock-out goals in 8 games in 5 WCs..
No, I picked Messi over Ronaldo. My argument was his lack of big moments for a lot of the last 5/6 years.
What we have here is the movement of goalposts.
I always like going back and watching old goals and Ronaldo being gifted all these goals is a sight to behold. Every one put Ona plate for him
But you know dribbling, 1997 and all that.