Ronaldo: Stay or go?

[VanDeBank]

Now he's a no show for training. 2 similar instances last season, one where he supposedly went to Portugal after finding out he wasn't playing and one where he visibly started moaning after getting subbed and Ralf had to console him.

I'm a fan but he isn't worth the hassle at 37.

That said, with our budget it be a big help if we can delay replacing him by another year. Get a RW in now, and a CF next season makes the most sense.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You love that eh? I actually addressed that in the previous post though. I’m not reading the rest of that because it’ll be more fanboy nonsense and it’s not really worth reading if you can’t read what I’ve written previously. Maybe a remedial English class is in order.

Now you are resorting to lies. On top of a repeated failure to interprete even the most basic of evidence properly. Given that yo're best rebuttal to 15 years of proven professionalism plus the for Elanga praising CR7's impact behind the scenes was he can't say what he really means'. I shouldn't be surprised. You are a gone case and this a classic case of talking into a dead phone. Nothing will get through to you.

 

[ForeverRed1]

He should go and we should move on.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You are just repeating the point 'yes but other players were also bad.' Which is true. But doesn't really change the analysis of Ronaldo being bad.

Sure. He had such a poor season he finished top scorer for such a poor performing team, with 18 league goals. Plus with the highest winners in the league outside Son to be nominated for team and player of the year. What strong evidence of a truly shocking year for him.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Sure. He had such a poor season he finished top scorer for such a poor performing team, with 18 league goals. Plus with the highest winners in the league outside Son to be nominated for team and player of the year. What strong evidence of a truly shocking year for him.

He had an alright season. Had very little competition for his place, none really for most of the campaign. Scored a few nice goals, also missed some semi-sitters. His attitude wasn't great but he didnt down tools either. Kind of meh but we do need him this year.

 

[George The Best]

I don't feel Ronaldo is actively seeking to move. He's testing the waters whilst putting ALOT of pressure on the board to show ambition and back Ten Hag.

If they don't CR7 walks.

Walks where? He’s still under contract and, it seems, nobody wants him. If he’s not at Carrington tomorrow and ready to go on tour we should tear up his contract.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

Does anyone know how much United are asking for him? £20m?

Double that figure with his wages, I very much doubt any top club are going to pay £20m (and £20m per season) for a player who is past his prime.

If there wasn't the allegations from the US, he'd probably jump at the chance to play in the MLS, but there is, so that cuts off that particular avenue.

PSG have the trio of egos (Messi, Mbappe and Neymar) so there's no room for a fourth, plus, I doubt Mbappe would give his approval to them buying Ronaldo.

He'll be with United next season unless a team like AC Milan goes for him.

Personally, if we can buy a striker, I wouldn't be disappointed if he left. I very much doubt he'd be a perfect fit for Ten Hag's maxi-pressing style.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

United fans give him all the excuses in the world. The slavery comments was the last straw for me. Some of you lot worship the ground he walks on.

Real Madrid didn't bat an eyelid when he wanted to go. Juve couldn't wait to get rid of him. The way some United fans act, you would think Ronaldo is bigger than the club, and maybe he is to a lot of you.

I hope he goes so ETH can implement his system properly instead of catering to some 37 year old tap in merchant.

He had a month to decide this instead of putting the club in such a bad position.

Well said.

The club should let him leave.

I honestly am at the point I might let him leave to Chelsea too. They'd be making a huge mistake.

 

[alexthelion]

Sure. He had such a poor season he finished top scorer for such a poor performing team, with 18 league goals. Plus with the highest winners in the league outside Son to be nominated for team and player of the year. What strong evidence of a truly shocking year for him.

Of course he was top scorer, everything was set up for him, and him alone, to score goals. Last season was nthing like a team display, it was all about one man.

18 goals maybe, but just as many, if not more, totally shocking performances where he might as well have not been on the pitch.

Should never have brought him back.

 

[MrEleson]

Of course he was top scorer, everything was set up for him, and him alone, to score goals. Last season was nthing like a team display, it was all about one man.

18 goals maybe, but just as many, if not more, totally shocking performances where he might as well have not been on the pitch.

Should never have brought him back.

Such BS.

The team don’t even play to his strengths for a start. There are literally no consistently good crossers in the side that can utilise his aerial prowess for one. And just because he was topscorer doesn’t mean everything was set-up for him. I mean where were the goals gonna come from? Elanga? Rashford that could barely control a football? Lingard? Cavani who was perennially injured?

But if you can prove that everything was set up for him then I’ll hold my hands up.

I love how there’s no in-between with Ronaldo. It’s just one extreme to the other.

 

[Joel Miller]

Now you are resorting to lies. On top of a repeated failure to interprete even the most basic of evidence properly. Given that yo're best rebuttal to 15 years of proven professionalism plus the for Elanga praising CR7's impact behind the scenes was he can't say what he really means'. I shouldn't be surprised. You are a gone case and this a classic case of talking into a dead phone. Nothing will get through to you.

The most extreme case of the pot calling the kettle black. You’re in no position to condescend anyone pal. Your entire argument is built on completely ignoring the form of Juventus and Utd prior to Ronaldo, pretending that one solitary player not bad mouthing a teammate to the press mid season somehow means something, and the ridiculous insinuation that Juve having gone off the boil for a couple of years would suddenly find their collective spark again in the blink of an eye as though it were a tap you can switch on and turn off.

I’ve read the forum long enough to know you’re not exactly objective where Ronaldo is concerned, in fact it’s quite the opposite. I’m sure your notorious for this. But you know, I’ll get back to wanting what’s best for United and you can sit and marvel at a couple of meaningless hat tricks and a string of poor performances. 18 league goals in a side set up to service one player, 4 against the big boys, all in what were more or less dead rubber games, forgive me for not being in awe. Anyway I won’t be wasting any more time on this but by all means you carry on.

 

[Stig]

Is he going to get what he wants anywhere ? Seems he wants to go to a top team that's in the Champions League, and to play every game.

I just don't see him getting that.

 

[MUFC OK]

If we buckle and sell him to Chelsea I’m actually done with this club.

 

[RedRonaldo]

There’s more to football than a single player scoring all the goals for the team.

That type of football stopped in the 90’s.

Ronaldo as a target man may well score a great number of goals - but will never be a player that is able to get the best attacking ability of the players around him. Even if he could at the age of 27 - he simply can’t at the age of 37.

I don’t think we are a better team after Ronaldo left us in 2009, nor Real Madrid being better team after he left them in 2018, nor Juventus being better team after he left them in 2021.

Sure this version of Ronaldo at 37, can’t be compared from his former past. But you have been also talking about Rooney and Benzema being better player after Ronaldo left in your previous post, but fact remains that doesn’t really apply to whole team performance.

In short, Ronaldo leaving may have set free some other main strikers in the team, which is only normal as it also applies when any main man/striker is leaving, but it doesn’t really help improving the whole attacking performance of the team, which is the whole point of your argument.

 

[MrEleson]

I don’t think we are a better team after Ronaldo left us in 2009, nor Real Madrid being better team after he left them in 2018, nor Juventus being better team after he left them in 2021.

Sure this version of Ronaldo at 37, can’t be compared from his former past. But you have been also talking about Rooney and Benzema being better player after Ronaldo left in your previous post, but fact remains that doesn’t really apply to whole team performance.

In short, Ronaldo leaving may have set free some other main strikers in the team, which is only normal as it also happens to any main man/striker leaving, but it doesn’t really help improving the whole attacking performance of the team which is the whole point of your argument.

Exactly and Madrid had their worst scoring season in more than a decade immediately after Ronaldo left and their worst season in general since 08/09. Even after that, they struggled to find a consistent source of goals beyond Benzema for the seasons following his departure and had to focus more heavily on defense.

They won la liga in 19/20 by primarily being more resolute at the back than because of their improved attacking performance. Only this past season did they start to look like Madrid of old again but even then this side can’t be compared to the sides Ronaldo was a part of.

Yet people still try to force this argument that team’s play better without him.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Of course he was top scorer, everything was set up for him, and him alone, to score goals. Last season was nthing like a team display, it was all about one man.

18 goals maybe, but just as many, if not more, totally shocking performances where he might as well have not been on the pitch.

Should never have brought him back.

Greenwood has more shots per games this season than his last one. For other forwards, Rashford is having a mare season, Martial too hence his loan move, which has been equally disaster, and Cavani is always injured. We only had 1 win in 11 games when Ronaldo is not playing/starting. So yeh, everything was set up for him to score even when he is not playing, great observation.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Exactly and Madrid had their worst scoring season in more than a decade immediately after Ronaldo left and their worst season in general since 08/09. Even after that, they struggled to find a consistent source of goals beyond Benzema for the seasons following his departure and had to focus more heavily on defense.

They won la liga in 19/20 by primarily being more resolute at the back than because of their improved attacking performance. Only this past season did they start to look like Madrid of old again but even then this side can’t be compared to the sides Ronaldo was a part of.

Yet people still try to force this argument that team’s play better without him.

Real had peak Marcelo during Ronaldo years .. probably the 3rd best player after Ronaldo and Messi those days ..

 

[Wibble]

I think we will be lucky to get anyone to take him although I think it would be the best thing for the team in the long run.

 

[Bebestation]

I don’t think we are a better team after Ronaldo left us in 2009, nor Real Madrid being better team after he left them in 2018, nor Juventus being better team after he left them in 2021.

Sure this version of Ronaldo at 37, can’t be compared from his former past. But you have been also talking about Rooney and Benzema being better player after Ronaldo left in your previous post, but fact remains that doesn’t really apply to whole team performance.

In short, Ronaldo leaving may have set free some other main strikers in the team, which is only normal as it also applies when any main man/striker is leaving, but it doesn’t really help improving the whole attacking performance of the team, which is the whole point of your argument.

Well again you have completely decided to not take the fact that Ronaldo as a LW plays a different game to Ronaldo as a ST.

An Inverted forward has much less need to be cohesive with the rest of the team due to them mostly finishing chances off at an angle. We see this with Greenwood and Rashford - who are constantly being talked about being selfish or making low IQ decisions but still ultimately scoring the goals.

Now let’s bring the United squad up to more detail that Ronaldo joined.

• Ronaldo joined a United team that was 100% a counter attacking team. Check
• Ronaldo however is a player who centrally has nothing to offer except the ability to finish and possibly leadership, which is obvious to see what happens when a counter attacking team becomes more one dimensional in comparison to the team where even a poor striker like Martial was holding up the ball and playing in chances to players like Rashford and Greenwood
• Let’s look at Rashford & Greenwood more closely - an inverted forward with a low iq and to score goals. Is Ronaldo going to play the ball in to the inverted forwards or is it suddenly turned to inverted forwards that have to play in Ronaldo?
• What about Bruno? He was arguably our main player before Ronaldo and there is so so so many stats about how Ronaldo takes up Bruno’s places on the pitch.
• What does that do? His passes are more wonky and gamble like because he isn’t making the final passes or shots from the positions Ronaldo now finds himself in.
• Sancho. I don’t even know much about this guy but is his through balls going to be something a 37 year old Ronaldo is going to run behind the defenses to go get as a central striker? Nope not for me.
• Ronaldo being our main attack last season mean that the football we played was less on the floor with the ball to feet on the counter and more things like crosses in to the head of Ronaldo. Why? Because Ronaldo needs those chances more so than Cavani, martial, Rashford, Bruno and Greenwood did to even have a remote influence on the game.
• My favorite moment was Bruno’s first penalties after Ronaldo joined!!
• I never remember Bruno missing a single penalty before Ronaldo but soon as he came he clearly felt a pressure to score that he didn’t have pre-Ronaldo because he missed 2 or 3 penalties that season whilst Bruno was knocking in penalties with his eyes closed the season before

• 
  

• noticed this all season and I have posted many a time. When Ronaldo eats, everyone else is left with chicken bones.
  
  
  
  dude I live with is biggest fanboy. Ronaldo's goals meant so much more than when anyone else scored. every year since Cristiano left he remained positive Ronaldo wanted to come back and would have if Fergie stayed. He thinks Ronaldo can do no wrong. I am easy whether he stays or goes but I cannot see us being successful as our main since he just poaches and nothing else.

  
  it’s just too obvious to see. Ronaldo is an amazing goal scorer but as a striker he isn’t going to get the best out of the players around him. Ronaldo to set up Bruno? Rashford? Sancho?​
• It’s just too obvious to see but the people who have seen it the whole season are called Ronaldo haters for speaking about it well the whole season when all it is is the Ronaldo lovers only seeing the positives a player brings to the team whilst never seeing a negative in one.​

So @RedRonaldo

Even if you disagree with everything I have said - can you tell me how you feel about your personal legend bypassing training and now wanting to leave? Just like he did when he was dropped by Solskjaer? Pulling a strop and acting like he is bigger than the team? What’s your opinions of the way he acts right now?

Do you like it?

 

[TheRedHearted]

If he goes to Chelsea and wins the champions league he’ll be tied with Seedorf for Champions Leagues with three different clubs. I would be happy for him tbh

 

[sglowrider]

Does Cristiano Ronaldo make teams better or worse?


In 2020-21, United scored 73 goals in the Premier League on their way to finishing second under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Adding Ronaldo to the equation in 2021-22 was meant to be the star quality to provide the final push for the title but United’s sixth-placed finish saw that goal tally drop to 57, despite the Portuguese’s 18 goals.

Put simply, all attacking roads led to Ronaldo. He was responsible for 21 per cent of United’s shots in the Premier League — higher than any of his team-mates with only Bruno Fernandes close to him with 17 per cent. Whether he was in the best position or not, Ronaldo demanded the ball to be played into him.

Off the ball, data from StatsBomb via FBref showed Ronaldo’s 6.7 pressures per 90 were the lowest of any midfielder or forward in the United squad. For wider context, that placed him in the bottom one per cent of forwards in the Premier League last season. You have to take the rough with the smooth when it comes to his playing profile.

This trend stacks up with his former employers. Before Ronaldo arrived at Juventus in 2017-18, their stellar 95-point title win saw them score 86 goals in Serie A. In Ronaldo’s first season, they still won 90 points but scored just 70 goals. The team’s top goalscorer? Ronaldo, of course, with 21 goals.

An even higher 28 per cent of Juventus’s shots were taken by Ronaldo in 2018-19 — a total of 170 shots dwarfing his nearest team-mates’ tally, Paulo Dybala second with 64 shots (11 per cent) for the season. What Dybala compromised in attack he made up for with his work rate off the ball, with 18.3 pressures per 90 — nearly double that of Ronaldo with 9.4 pressures per 90.

 

[Waynne]

Does Cristiano Ronaldo make teams better or worse?


In 2020-21, United scored 73 goals in the Premier League on their way to finishing second under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Adding Ronaldo to the equation in 2021-22 was meant to be the star quality to provide the final push for the title but United’s sixth-placed finish saw that goal tally drop to 57, despite the Portuguese’s 18 goals.

Put simply, all attacking roads led to Ronaldo. He was responsible for 21 per cent of United’s shots in the Premier League — higher than any of his team-mates with only Bruno Fernandes close to him with 17 per cent. Whether he was in the best position or not, Ronaldo demanded the ball to be played into him.

Off the ball, data from StatsBomb via FBref showed Ronaldo’s 6.7 pressures per 90 were the lowest of any midfielder or forward in the United squad. For wider context, that placed him in the bottom one per cent of forwards in the Premier League last season. You have to take the rough with the smooth when it comes to his playing profile.

This trend stacks up with his former employers. Before Ronaldo arrived at Juventus in 2017-18, their stellar 95-point title win saw them score 86 goals in Serie A. In Ronaldo’s first season, they still won 90 points but scored just 70 goals. The team’s top goalscorer? Ronaldo, of course, with 21 goals.

An even higher 28 per cent of Juventus’s shots were taken by Ronaldo in 2018-19 — a total of 170 shots dwarfing his nearest team-mates’ tally, Paulo Dybala second with 64 shots (11 per cent) for the season. What Dybala compromised in attack he made up for with his work rate off the ball, with 18.3 pressures per 90 — nearly double that of Ronaldo with 9.4 pressures per 90.

Consider that the forward line of Liverpool and City have players that press like crazy to win back the ball. I'd happily let Ronaldo go to get a player of similar caliber as a Mane or Sterling.

 

[sglowrider]

Consider that the forward line of Liverpool and City have players that press like crazy to win back the ball. I'd happily let Ronaldo go to get a player of similar caliber as a Mane or Sterling.

Basically, the article using stats/data is saying that if you have 30+y.o Ronaldo in your team, it has to be set up for him. If not, you will see the results like last season.
He may do well in terms of stats but overall the team does not as in the case of Juve and last year's United. Juve had fewer total points and goals overall too.

 

[Bebestation]

Does Cristiano Ronaldo make teams better or worse?


In 2020-21, United scored 73 goals in the Premier League on their way to finishing second under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Adding Ronaldo to the equation in 2021-22 was meant to be the star quality to provide the final push for the title but United’s sixth-placed finish saw that goal tally drop to 57, despite the Portuguese’s 18 goals.

Put simply, all attacking roads led to Ronaldo. He was responsible for 21 per cent of United’s shots in the Premier League — higher than any of his team-mates with only Bruno Fernandes close to him with 17 per cent. Whether he was in the best position or not, Ronaldo demanded the ball to be played into him.

Off the ball, data from StatsBomb via FBref showed Ronaldo’s 6.7 pressures per 90 were the lowest of any midfielder or forward in the United squad. For wider context, that placed him in the bottom one per cent of forwards in the Premier League last season. You have to take the rough with the smooth when it comes to his playing profile.

This trend stacks up with his former employers. Before Ronaldo arrived at Juventus in 2017-18, their stellar 95-point title win saw them score 86 goals in Serie A. In Ronaldo’s first season, they still won 90 points but scored just 70 goals. The team’s top goalscorer? Ronaldo, of course, with 21 goals.

An even higher 28 per cent of Juventus’s shots were taken by Ronaldo in 2018-19 — a total of 170 shots dwarfing his nearest team-mates’ tally, Paulo Dybala second with 64 shots (11 per cent) for the season. What Dybala compromised in attack he made up for with his work rate off the ball, with 18.3 pressures per 90 — nearly double that of Ronaldo with 9.4 pressures per 90.

Why oh why can’t people see this.

Our main and only attack became Ronaldo.

 

[sglowrider]

Why oh why can’t people see this.

Our main and only attack became Ronaldo.

People love looking for heroes but won't admit to it. They project.

And then become blinded by them. Ronaldo FC > Manchester United

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well again you have completely decided to not take the fact that Ronaldo as a LW plays a different game to Ronaldo as a ST.

An Inverted forward has much less need to be cohesive with the rest of the team due to them mostly finishing chances off at an angle. We see this with Greenwood and Rashford - who are constantly being talked about being selfish or making low IQ decisions but still ultimately scoring the goals.

Now let’s bring the United squad up to more detail that Ronaldo joined.

• Ronaldo joined a United team that was 100% a counter attacking team. Check
• Ronaldo however is a player who centrally has nothing to offer except the ability to finish and possibly leadership, which is obvious to see what happens when a counter attacking team becomes more one dimensional in comparison to the team where even a poor striker like Martial was holding up the ball and playing in chances to players like Rashford and Greenwood
• Let’s look at Rashford & Greenwood more closely - an inverted forward with a low iq and to score goals. Is Ronaldo going to play the ball in to the inverted forwards or is it suddenly turned to inverted forwards that have to play in Ronaldo?
• What about Bruno? He was arguably our main player before Ronaldo and there is so so so many stats about how Ronaldo takes up Bruno’s places on the pitch.
• What does that do? His passes are more wonky and gamble like because he isn’t making the final passes or shots from the positions Ronaldo now finds himself in.
• Sancho. I don’t even know much about this guy but is his through balls going to be something a 37 year old Ronaldo is going to run behind the defenses to go get as a central striker? Nope not for me.
• Ronaldo being our main attack last season mean that the football we played was less on the floor with the ball to feet on the counter and more things like crosses in to the head of Ronaldo. Why? Because Ronaldo needs those chances more so than Cavani, martial, Rashford, Bruno and Greenwood did to even have a remote influence on the game.
• My favorite moment was Bruno’s first penalties after Ronaldo joined!!
• I never remember Bruno missing a single penalty before Ronaldo but soon as he came he clearly felt a pressure to score that he didn’t have pre-Ronaldo because he missed 2 or 3 penalties that season whilst Bruno was knocking in penalties with his eyes closed the season before

• 
  
• 
  
  
  it’s just too obvious to see. Ronaldo is an amazing goal scorer but as a striker he isn’t going to get the best out of the players around him. Ronaldo to set up Bruno? Rashford? Sancho?​
• It’s just too obvious to see but the people who have seen it the whole season are called Ronaldo haters for speaking about it well the whole season when all it is is the Ronaldo lovers only seeing the positives a player brings to the team whilst never seeing a negative in one.​

So @RedRonaldo

Even if you disagree with everything I have said - can you tell me how you feel about your personal legend bypassing training and now wanting to leave? Just like he did when he was dropped by Solskjaer? Pulling a strop and acting like he is bigger than the team? What’s your opinions of the way he acts right now?

Do you like it?

Strange you have been looking for Ronaldo as striker to set up his teammates, when his main purpose is to score goals, which he did for us.

I’ve said it many times regarding the change of counter attack play, it’s more to do with form of Rashford, indirectness of Sancho, and in some extent loss of James (he was our fastest winger), rather than Ronaldo being our main striker. At a stretch you may say Bruno couldn’t pass freely to others when he find Ronaldo being in good position, hence may affect our attacking play. But question being, who he could have pass the ball to anyway, when our other forward are mostly unfit or in shocking form.

And of course Bruno himself has been affected by the presence of Ronaldo, I am not going to deny that, but blaming all his penalty miss on Ronaldo is really daft. It’s just him who doesn’t have the nerve to do it in intense moment, Ronaldo has done nothing to stop him from scoring.

Look I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you’ve said, but to blame everything on Ronaldo while disregarding the poor form of other players (Rashford, Martial, Cavani) or change of way we played due to other factors (Sancho, James, Greenwood) is really daft.

Well regarding him missing training and requesting for a move, I think he is just simply looking for a move for his ending career, it’s ok for our fans to hate him because of that, but let’s not try to pretend he has been shite and detrimental to our team because of that. Lewandowski is also looking for a move away from Bayern, should their fans blame everything on him too? (He didn’t set up others too, they have exact same number of assist last season, nor is he pressing machine up front). Or is Bayern being detrimental by Lewandowski because he didn’t set up others?

 

[Bebestation]

Strange you have been looking for Ronaldo as striker to set up his teammates, when his main purpose is to score goals, which he did for us.

I’ve said it many times regarding the change of counter attack play, it’s more to do with form of Rashford, indirectness of Sancho, and in some extent loss of James (he was our fastest winger), rather than Ronaldo being our main striker. At a stretch you may say Bruno couldn’t pass freely to others when he find Ronaldo being in good position, hence may affect our attacking play. But question being, who he could have pass the ball to anyway, when our other forward are mostly unfit or in shocking form.

And of course Bruno himself has been affected by the presence of Ronaldo, I am not going to deny that, but blaming all his penalty miss on Ronaldo is really daft. It’s just him who doesn’t have the nerve to do it in intense moment, Ronaldo has done nothing to stop him from scoring.

Look I don’t necessarily disagree with everything you’ve said, but to blame everything on Ronaldo while disregarding the poor form of other players (Rashford, Martial, Cavani) or change of way we played due to other factors (Sancho, James, Greenwood) is really daft.

Well regarding him missing training and requesting for a move, I think he is just simply looking for a move for his ending career, it’s ok for our fans to hate him because of that, but let’s not try to pretend he has been shite and detrimental to our team because of that. Lewandowski is also looking for a move away from Bayern, should their fans blame everything on him too? (He didn’t set up others too, they have exact same number of assist last season, nor is he pressing machine up front).

Wow - blame every player except Ronaldo.

You just see the goals and assume that’s the best a player can do.

Insane stuff man.

The article produced by @sglowrider

shows everything with stats and it’s completely made up bullshit to you.

Ive never seen so much love for Ronaldo - just as you probably count what I talk about as simply hate.

A do no wrong footballer at the age of 37.

Mad stuff.

you literally start your post acknowledging how we went from a team where the central striker set up inverted forwards to a team that set up a central striker instead - and yet you don’t see how Ronaldo changed our game play or team mates ability

 

[Greck]

I defended Ronaldo for way too long last season but at some point had to switch sides and agree our attack with him is one way traffic. Like I don't get why people still take offense. He's a hardcore poacher, it's not a bad thing but he does show disinterest for general contributions that don't get him a shot, the payoff being so-so because of his declining ability. He can't pull off magic anymore so it's often not worth prioritizing the poaching.

If he gets the ball in tight angles or spaces he's not going to hold it up to create a better opportunity for others, he's going for goal and often time it's a waste because he's no longer the same. For better and often for worse Ronaldo receiving the ball in an advanced position is going to end in Ronaldo shooting. Again it's not a bad thing, poachers poach but many teams also now prefer more holistic play from their central striker. It's no longer just about muh goalcount.

He also doesn't make selfless diagonal runs for his inside forwards. He'll stay rooted in the central area come hell or high water. You have to give him the ball or run into him. Now that teams use 3 man attack formations with wide forwards it's not absurd to ask a striker to drift. He often also refuses to come towards the ball. It's not unusual to see him camped between the centrebacks when a player is looking for short build up option.

The odd part is he'll play a match once every couple weeks where he plays like a complete striker, comes deep, creates, carries the ball, cause confusion for his marker and does so amazingly. He has the complete package in his skillset but only wants to poach. The lone striker is an important central figure in build up and teams don't play with poachers anymore. I think Rangnick tried the 4222 to accommodate Ronaldo but it didn't work out because Rashford was the worst person to compensate for all these things. Regardless I wasn't surprised RR would come out and say he regretted accommodating him. All of his teams nowadays say something similar about bending the team a little too much to prioritize CR. These are people who actually play with him, it's not just we randoms on the internet making the same observation.

 

[sglowrider]

I defended Ronaldo for way too long last season but at some point had to switch sides and agree our attack with him is one way traffic. Like I don't get why people still take offense. He's a hardcore poacher, it's not a bad thing but he does show disinterest for general contributions that don't get him a shot, the payoff being so-so because of his declining ability. He can't pull off magic anymore so it's often not worth prioritizing the poaching.

If he gets the ball in tight angles or spaces he's not going to hold it up to create a better opportunity for others, he's going for goal and often time it's a waste because he's no longer the same. For better and often for worse Ronaldo receiving the ball in an advanced position is going to end in Ronaldo shooting. Again it's not a bad thing, poachers poach but many teams also now prefer more holistic play from their central striker. It's no longer just about muh goalcount.

He also doesn't make selfless diagonal runs for his inside forwards. He'll stay rooted in the central area come hell or high water. You have to give him the ball or run into him. Now that teams use 3 man attack formations with wide forwards it's not absurd to ask a striker to drift. He often also refuses to come towards the ball. It's not unusual to see him camped between the centrebacks when a player is looking for short build up option.

The odd part is he'll play a match once every couple weeks where he plays like a complete striker, comes deep, creates, carries the ball, cause confusion for his marker and does so amazingly. He has the complete package in his skillset but only wants to poach. The lone striker is an important central figure in build up and teams don't play with poachers anymore. I think Rangnick tried the 4222 to accommodate Ronaldo but it didn't work out because Rashford was the worst person to compensate for all these things. Regardless I wasn't surprised RR would come out and say he regretted accommodating him. All of his teams nowadays say something similar about bending the team a little too much to prioritize CR. These are people who actually play with him, it's not just we randoms on the internet making the same observation.

Good post.

 

[McGrathsipan]

I very much doubt he'd be a perfect fit for Ten Hag's maxi-pressing style.

This could be the real reason he's stropping

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The most extreme case of the pot calling the kettle black. You’re in no position to condescend anyone pal.

I have the right to condenscend to anyone who dares to refute 15 years of proven professionalism at the highest level and recent younger team mates comments about said player with " those talking about him couldn't say what they really mean. "

Your entire argument is built on completely ignoring the form of Juventus and Utd prior to Ronaldo, pretending that one solitary player not bad mouthing a teammate to the press mid season somehow means something, and the ridiculous insinuation that Juve having gone off the boil for a couple of years would suddenly find their collective spark again in the blink of an eye as though it were a tap you can switch on and turn off.

Another wonderful example of failing to interpret basic evidence infront of you. The claim made is CR7 made a team like Juventus significantly worse. It is provably false he didn't going by how the team performed exactly the same after he did leave and was replaced by a younger and much fitter version of his current self at center forward. I didn't need to further reach into the past to disprove the claim at all.

If I was being asked to prove my claim Juve failed with CR7 because of the midfield THEN I would have progressively shown how Juve's midfield got progressively worse between the time he arrived up to now. A reason why the team fell from first place and competing in Europe before his arrival to struggling to make the UCL in the league with in a span of 3 years.

Further more its a marvel your incessant penchant for lies to buttress your arguments never fails to rare its ugly head:

I never at any point insinuated nor argued Juve's form could turn off and on like a tap. Because unlike you I never laid the blame on the collective collapse of form and structure of an entire team on the addition of one player operating in the most dependant role of all in the team. Twice.

I’ve read the forum long enough to know you’re not exactly objective where Ronaldo is concerned, in fact it’s quite the opposite. I’m sure your notorious for this.

Without fail. Butressing your argument with pure lies.

 

[sglowrider]

This could be the real reason he's stropping

Or he knew he could bend Ole, being an ex-team-mate and an interim like Ralf. Plus when he first signed, he had the backing of the owners and the CEO.

He may have read the tea leaves the past month and saw that ETH was quite empowered (by Murtough and Arnold) -- based on the PR and press communications done on ETH by the club, like a saviour. No nonsense, detailed-oriented systems manager.

Plus the sort of transfers that they were attempting to bring in, who were in the ETH mould.

So he probably felt that he won't be able to bend or manipulate an empowered ETH anytime soon. A power play he felt he couldn't win.

 

[Bebestation]

I have the right to condenscend to anyone who dares to refute 15 years of proven professionalism at the highest level and recent younger team mates comments about said player with " those talking about him couldn't say what they really mean. "
Another wonderful example of failing to interpret basic evidence infront of you. The claim made is CR7 made a team like Juventus significantly worse. It is provably false he didn't going by how the team performed exactly the same after he did leave and was replaced by a younger and much fitter version of his current self at center forward. I didn't need to further reach into the past to disprove the claim at all.

If I was being asked to prove my claim Juve failed with CR7 because of the midfield THEN I would have progressively shown how Juve's midfield got progressively worse between the time he arrived up to now. A reason why the team fell from first place and competing in Europe before his arrival to struggling to make the UCL in the league with in a span of 3 years.

Further more its a marvel your incessant penchant for lies to buttress your arguments never fails to rare its ugly head:

I never at any point insinuated nor argued Juve's form could turn off and on like a tap. Because unlike you I never laid the blame on the collective collapse of form and structure of an entire team on the addition of one player operating in the most dependant role of all in the team. Twice.


Without fail. Butressing your argument with pure lies.

A team that trains with a certain tactic for a whole season doesn’t just get to master a new tactic when entering a new season after a 2 month break.

Life is not a video game where every season is a complete blank slate.

I expect this to happen to United - an average season during Ten Hag’s first - going from playing pretty basic cross the ball to the target man, press when you can be arsed football to what we all assume is tactics that will be a level above and need better players to perform anyway more towards Ten Hag’s second season than his first.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He had an alright season. Had very little competition for his place, none really for most of the campaign. Scored a few nice goals, also missed some semi-sitters. His attitude wasn't great but he didnt down tools either. Kind of meh but we do need him this year.

This is pretty much my United view of his season. He, De Gea, Fred and Mctominay did their jobs in a side that collectively collapsed in form and attitude round them all season long. That is why its rankling with with me to see some blaming his arrival and efforts for how badly the season turned out.

 

[mitchmouse]

The stats and history point to the fact that his most hated rival is simply better.

are you talking bout Messi? how's he getting on at PSG? won much yet?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

A team that trains with a certain tactic for a whole season doesn’t just get to master a new tactic when entering a new season after a 2 month break.

Life is not a video game where every season is a complete blank slate.

Who said life is a video game? Be serious please. You can't ever claim ONE component, in the most dependant role, has the sole blame for a collapse of team structure, collective form, performance and attitude. The supposedly bad egg gets removed and the next excuse is "new tactics can't be mastered quickly" when the performances over a full season after do not significantly improve. Thats the issue with the entire "its all cr7s" fault argument

I expect this to happen to United - an average season during Ten Hag’s first - going from playing pretty basic cross the ball to the target man, press when you can be arsed football to what we all assume is tactics that will be a level above and need better players to perform anyway more towards Ten Hag’s second season than his first.

I'm willing to bet United under Ten hag are going to be far better than last season directly because the team structure, performance and attitude as a collective will be 100% better regardless of whether cR7 stays of goes. Because it was collective collapse of form and poor attitude that caused the team malaise in the first place. Not any singular individual.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Of course he was top scorer, everything was set up for him, and him alone, to score goals. Last season was nthing like a team display, it was all about one man.
........

Rather he was top scorer because he was the ONLY fit and available center forward in the entire squad all season who had serviceable form. I find it hilarious people keep claiming "the team was set up for him" when there was literally no team nor performance structure behind him bar the first 3 games after he arrived. Nor for any of the alternatives for him in the squad for that matter.

 

[Bebestation]

Who said life is a video game? Be serious please. You can't ever claim ONE component, in the most dependant role, has the sole blame for a collapse of team structure, collective form, performance and attitude. The supposedly bad egg gets removed and the next excuse is "new tactics can't be mastered quickly" when the performances over a full season after do not significantly improve. Thats the issue with the entire "its all cr7s" fault argument


I'm willing to bet United under Ten hag are going to be far better than last season directly because the team structure, performance and attitude as a collective will be 100% better regardless of whether cR7 stays of goes. Because it was collective collapse of form and poor attitude that caused the team malaise in the first place. Not any singular individual.

Yes Even Pep can get possession football done in one season under City

So Juventus should just kick a whole new tactic in to force the moment Ronaldo leaves!

stats upon stats showing that Ronaldo takes majority of the shots for all his teams and suddenly a team loses that and supposed to get back to some form of Ronaldo not taking nearly 35% of the team shots when such shots has a build up phase that benefits Ronaldo anyway!


Ronaldo fans have some Rashford’s footballing IQ.

We literally went on the floor counter attacking football that took two seasons to get second place to ruin it with a target man tactic in the final third year.

You think removing the target man sets us instantly back to the second season counter attacking team form we were on - when football is not as simple as that.

 

[Adisa]

Does Cristiano Ronaldo make teams better or worse?


In 2020-21, United scored 73 goals in the Premier League on their way to finishing second under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Adding Ronaldo to the equation in 2021-22 was meant to be the star quality to provide the final push for the title but United’s sixth-placed finish saw that goal tally drop to 57, despite the Portuguese’s 18 goals.

Put simply, all attacking roads led to Ronaldo. He was responsible for 21 per cent of United’s shots in the Premier League — higher than any of his team-mates with only Bruno Fernandes close to him with 17 per cent. Whether he was in the best position or not, Ronaldo demanded the ball to be played into him.

Off the ball, data from StatsBomb via FBref showed Ronaldo’s 6.7 pressures per 90 were the lowest of any midfielder or forward in the United squad. For wider context, that placed him in the bottom one per cent of forwards in the Premier League last season. You have to take the rough with the smooth when it comes to his playing profile.

This trend stacks up with his former employers. Before Ronaldo arrived at Juventus in 2017-18, their stellar 95-point title win saw them score 86 goals in Serie A. In Ronaldo’s first season, they still won 90 points but scored just 70 goals. The team’s top goalscorer? Ronaldo, of course, with 21 goals.

An even higher 28 per cent of Juventus’s shots were taken by Ronaldo in 2018-19 — a total of 170 shots dwarfing his nearest team-mates’ tally, Paulo Dybala second with 64 shots (11 per cent) for the season. What Dybala compromised in attack he made up for with his work rate off the ball, with 18.3 pressures per 90 — nearly double that of Ronaldo with 9.4 pressures per 90.

The point I made a couple of days ago. Ronaldo monopolises the attack.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Yes Even Pep can get possession football done in one season under City

Thanks for missing the entire point. I cite why performances under ETH will be significantly better than this past season without reference to mastering his tactical blue print. You mirculously equate it to City mastering Guardiola ball in one season. Well done you.....

So Juventus should just kick a whole new tactic in to force the moment Ronaldo leaves!

Let me dumb it down for you:
The ENTIRE "its all cr7s fault" lies on the premise the entire team was SET up to pass to him, to maximise his output and his immobility as an old poacher supposedly collapsed team structure and form. Both as a unit and individually because his addition turned the side terribly one dimensional, benifitting his out out alone at the expense of the team.

THERE FORE replacing him with a more mobile and hard working striker should not only have had a significant impact on off the ball pressures. The collective form and structure of the rest of the team should have directly shot up because the replacement striker works off the ball more for them and involves them more as a team as they still use the same tactics of play through that singular player.


When Manchester United switched from Van Nistelrooy to Saha for example. There was clear and significant improvement as a collective from one dimensional team play to multidimensionality.


In comparison. None of that happened after CR7 left Juve.

Be it with the average Morata or the elite talent Vlahovic in his stead. Two players both better off the ball and in build up than his current guise.

The team instead was just as dependant on their goal scoring exploits as the lead striker to survive, as it was with him there, and team performance form and structure hardly had a bump. As evidenced by the final results of the season after a whole season post his departure.

If this doesn't reveal to you the flaw in the "Its all cr7s fault' premise. When its further transplanted to United of last season, where collapse of individual form and team structure due attitude was abundant aside from his presence. Nothing ever will.

We literally went on the floor counter attacking football that took two seasons to get second place to ruin it with a target man tactic in the final third year.

You think removing the target man sets us instantly back to the second season counter attacking team form we were on - when football is not as simple as that.

At what point have I argued this nonsense you just posted? I'm beginning to believe its YOU with the football IQ of Rashford. Not anyone else