Yeah, that's the beauty of the international game - easier to compare across generations IMO. The only real change has been the profileration of diddy European countries since 1990 allowing some stats to be padded a bit more than in the 70s and 80.
Ronaldo is the goat
- Thread starter Billy Blaggs
- Start date
I'm a big Messi fan and still consider Messi the better footballer but Ronaldo is the better or bigger player. Whenever you think he's gonna slow down he just pulls it out and does even better. For me he's ahead of Messi now and barring a Messi masterstroke, I'll say Ronaldo is better.
In terms of consistency it would be mad not to mention CR7 in the same breath as other goats. In 15 years kids will watch videos of his goals, that bicycle against Juve, the 40 yarder against Porto etc and see his stats abd they'll say he was the goat.
He’s more of a bull than a goat honestly.
Which historians are including Messi?
I think most would agree it's impossible to seperate Messi and c.ronaldo so if Messi is in, so is winker Ron.
And history will likely show that.
Top 4 if you must...
They could lose to Iran and Argentina could go on to win the WC this year to cement Messi's spot as the GOAT. Reverse can happen too but why don't you all wait to gloat?
Judge: And how much tax have you kept from the people of Spain, whose collected funs have poured into the coffins of your respective clubs to give you free health care while unemployment plumets?
Ronaldo: Er ... he started it?
Messi: I ... didn’t see ze incident?
But if we only go by stats then surely Gerd Muller is the GOAT since he scored 650 goals in 700 games (0.92 average), and had 1.10 average at international level (68 goals in 62 games). Won 3 CL's in a row, scored the winning goal in the 1974 WC, scored a goal in the final of Euro 1972.
By as I say NO ONE has Gerd Muller their top 10, and probably not in the top 20. There's more than just goals, otherwise Muller would ranked up with Pele and Maradona, but he's absolutely nowhere near.
I disagree with this. Cristiano has been more consistent over a longer period, scored more and probably won more but Ronaldo Lima is the best and most complete Striker I have ever seen in my life.
Lethal, deadly and struck fear in opposition defences more than Cristiano will ever do. Roma Lima is the great Ronaldo.
Does not matter how many goals Cristiano scores, he will always be behind Ronaldo Lima cos I have seen both of them play and I know who the truly legendary one is among them.
Müller always has one of the best stats in history of the game, and widely regarded as one of the greatest striker of all time.
But I am not too sure if he was even the best player of his time, mostly overshadowed by the likes of Cruyff and Beckenbauer, and only managed to win 1 Ballon D’or throughout his whole career.
Ronaldo, on the other hand, has already won 5 Ballon D’or (probably 6 this year), over his main rival Messi, who is widely regarded as even greater player than Cruyff/Beckenbauer of Muller’s time. He is also totally dominate in best competition of our time, the CL, not sure same thing can be said for Müller.
You may argue Ronaldo benefits more in this era, where people value goals more. But let’s not forget Ronaldo has also spend majority of his career (from around 19 to 28) playing as a skillful wing forward, with much better all round game than Muller ever was (better dribbling, technique, freekick, long shots, first touch, header etc)
But yes, Müllerf was still a great player, probably one of best striker of all time, and 3rd best player during his time. If he wasn’t born in same era as Cruyff and Beckenbauer, he will probably end up in most people top 10 list of GOAT.
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Sporting term then. Its a minor irritation but i really dont like it.
The world cup carries far too much weight in how fans size up the great players imo. Its only a few weeks once every four summers. The greater weight should be applied to club carriers since they represent far more in terms of how well a player plays over a protracted period of time. Obviously the likes of Ronaldo and Messi will always come out well ahead of Pele and Maradona in this regard since the former played almost exclusively in Brazil and Maradona's league form wasn't anywhere near the current two.
There's never been a player like Messi or Ronaldo simply put, they've both been beyond world class since 06/07 and they're entering 18/19 at the same level but as a master of a different aspect of the game. Fully takes the piss.
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Easily. No question about it. Go on Ronnie! Shine!
if CR7 capable of bringing Portugal to glory this year then he is definitely better than both. Portugal is shite team
If anything this & the Ronaldo vs Messi thread has taught me how incredibly underrated Muller is. His name constantly used to beat the point that stats are nothing as if he was some nobody with only stats. That is actually sad cause Muller was one heck of a big game player and arguably the most decisive player footballing world has seen. He did not only score lots and lots of goals he scored great and important goals. He should definitely be in most people's top 10. He was not just a pure Inzaghi mode poacher either some of his interplay was fantastic.
Certainly this WC is swinging the pendulum....so far. Last WC it was the same story but the other way around. Messi lighting up the group stage, CR7 sulking and struggling. I would say we'll have to wait and see how things develop and see which of these 2, if either, lead their country deep in the tournament with stellar performances. Only then can either separate themselves from each other and perhaps even be considered alongside Pele and Maradona.
But exactly, it's because of their rarity that World Cups have huge importance.
And it is also because the national team excites many more people than individual clubs. Maradona gave the 1986 world cup to all the Argentinians and they haven't won it since. Do Argentinians care if Messi won the Spanish cup with Barca? Not so much.
England hasn't won anything since 1966. Are a couple of CL cups by English clubs as important as another World Cup? Definitely not! If England wins the World Cup, they will be discussing this for another 50 years!!!
This WC will probably cap off a ridiculous 4/5 years for CR7 beginning with 4 CLs in 5 years, winning the Euros, winning 3 Balon d'ors, and now lighting up the WC. When people look back at their careers its this period that will tip the scales in his favor imo.
True, but its not like sprinters and the Olympics where winning gold medals defines the entire 4 years. Ronaldo and Messi's careers have been forged at the club level and they will always be remembered for what they did there above their international accomplishments.
Probably the greatest career of any professional ever. He never had much chance to win a World Cup, because Portugal aren’t good enough, but he won a Euros, 5 CLs (which is preposterous in the modern era), 5 and probably soon to be 6 Balón D’ors, has done it for over a decade, and has shattered most scoring records. So if that’s what greatest means to you, then he’s probably the greatest.
However, if we are talking about raw ability to play the game, to transform a match, to entertain, to inspire, to lead, to make the hairs stand up on the back of your head then he comes behind Maradona, Ronaldo de Lima, Messi, and Ronaldinho, in my lifetime.
So it’s all subjective. Personally I couldn’t give a feck about entering into a never ending debate about who is the greatest because everyone’s metric for deciding will be different. By my metric, he isn’t and never will be.
However, if we are talking about raw ability to play the game, to transform a match, to entertain, to inspire, to lead, to make the hairs stand up on the back of your head then he comes behind Maradona, Ronaldo de Lima, Messi, and Ronaldinho, in my lifetime.
So it’s all subjective. Personally I couldn’t give a feck about entering into a never ending debate about who is the greatest because everyone’s metric for deciding will be different. By my metric, he isn’t and never will be.
Messi never should have taken those pics. He's poked the bear....big mistake
The mere fact that you say "and never will be" makes it seem as if there my be some bias against him that is helping you with your decision making...
Would you consider Xavi a creator? How about Iniesta? Is he a creator? I'm going to guess you are going to say yes to that. I've got news for you though. CR7 has almost as many assists as those two combined. In fact, the only player ahead of him for assists in La Liga is Messi...
https://www.statbunker.com/alltimestats/AllTimeCompetitionMostAssists?comp_code=LL
The mere fact you focused on that small facet of the statement makes it seem as if you didn’t understand my post at all.
Oh I think I understood it better than you think lol. You just don't like him. It's ok...i'm not here to change your mind
Agree that everyone has their own metric, but in terms of transforming a match, to inspire, to lead, to make hair stand up on back of my head, Ronaldo has probably done more than most of the names you’ve mentioned.
The only one of those things he possibly lacks is the "raw ability". His ability to entertain, inspire and lead are at the very top. He has also achieved much, much more than all of those players except for Messi. And though his ability on the ball doesn't quite match that of the players you mentioned, he has other qualities that put him equal or above them, in my opinion. And certainly his achievements outmatch all of them, including Messi. I won't say he's a more entertaining player than them, but is he overall a better player? I can't see how he isn't given what he has done consistently over a decade.
No. Great goalscorer but nowhere near Messi as a player. He's like a better version of Gerd Muller.
I was hoping for transfer and WC muppetry here on RedCafe but so far it's mostly about Ronaldo vs Messi and it makes me really really sad. 
I'm also angry and confused.
I'm also angry and confused.
Although I regard Ronaldo as one of the greatest players ever, this judge doesn't hide his Madrid's bias.
Let's put some questions in their places.I really can't see it as something negative for Messi's career. If it's a great feat for legendary players like Totti, Maldini, Giggs, Scholes and Iniesta, thus, why should it be a curse for Messi?
This statistic doesn't take into account that Ronaldo signed up for Real Madrid as world-class player (he won the Ballon D'Or in 2008 before having gone to Madrid), whilst Messi was a youngster developing his skills during his first Barcelona's matches. No one of them started their career with +50 goals per season, so it's quite unfair to compare them in this way.
Messi is so humble... as far as I know, Messi edges Ronaldo when it comes to long distance shoots, despite finishing considerably less than the Portuguese.
Another point for Messi, since his average goals is higher than Ronaldo overall. CR7 has about 45 goals ahead and made more than 150 appearances than the Argentinian. By the way, it's interesting that the judge didn't analyse some aspects like number of assists or shooting efficiency.
But... answering the thread, I can only assure Ronaldo is a formidable player and one of the greatest of all time.
Although I regard Ronaldo as one of the greatest players ever, this judge doesn't hide his Madrid's bias.
I really can't see it as something negative for Messi's career. If it's a great feat for legendary players like Totti, Maldini, Giggs, Scholes and Iniesta, thus, why should it be a curse for Messi?
This statistic doesn't take into account that Ronaldo signed up for Real Madrid as world-class player (he won the Ballon D'Or in 2008 before having gone to Madrid), whilst Messi was a youngster developing his skills during his first Barcelona's matches. No one of them started their career with +50 goals per season, so it's quite unfair to compare them in this way.
Messi is so humble... as far as I know, Messi edges Ronaldo when it comes to long distance shoots, despite finishing considerably less than the Portuguese.
Another point for Messi, since his average goals is higher than Ronaldo overall. CR7 has about 45 goals ahead and made more than 150 appearances than the Argentinian. By the way, it's interesting that the judge didn't analyse some aspects like number of assists or shooting efficiency.
But... answering the thread, I can only assure Ronaldo is a formidable player and one of the greatest of all time.
i holdl you in comtempt
Yes, you are right. However, at their level they can only be compared to Maradona and Pele. People still discuss whether Maradona was better than Pele. Twenty years from now, it will be hard for Messi to "beat" Maradona without a World Cup. Ronaldo does not have a Portuguese Maradona to be compared to, and he won a European Cup for his country already (the only Cup that Portugal has ever won, Portugal has a population of only 10 million) so it is somewhat different for him. But for Messi it will always be bad that he won nothing for Argentina. Especially since he had DiMaria and Aguero to help him in attack, he wasn't all alone.
Yep.
He is an athletic specimen too (bet none of thr PC brigade come in and say thats racist...). Almost perfect physique for the game, and he has utilised that to its full potential.
By that same logic, is Messi a better version of Denilson?
This. Ronaldo is more complete. He is powerful, can score with his head and he has a great shot.
You don’t. Your response was half-witted at best. Your follow up is worse. Wasting my time with this discussion.
Nope
It’s purely subjective when discussing the criteria mentioned. It’s not like my mind is open to being changed. It’s an observation for formed over 30 years of actively watching football. It’s just how I feel about those players. I don’t really give two hoots about his career achievements, but as I recognised, for other people that might be the most important thing. Horses for courses.
Maybe for you. But not for me. So I respectfully disagree. I’ve always found him to be a ruthlessly efficient and effective footballer. To a level as yet unprecedented. But he’s not what I would call an “artist”. There’s no romance in the way he plays the game. That’s important for me. Maybe not for anyone else. Hence he’s at no.5 on my GOAT (ugh, detestable term) list.