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Ronaldo is the goat
- Thread starter Billy Blaggs
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Well, he does come off as a little capricious sometimes...
To be honest, it isn't really subjective. He has quite clearly demonstrated leadership many times and has obviously inspired his team mates as well as young people watching football. He is idolised by millions and dragged his national team into the European Cup, then into them winning it. And his ability to entertain can't really be called into question given that he scores 50 goals a season, scores in big games and important moments and is one of the most charismatic figures in football right now.
It's subjective whether or not he does all of these things more than the other players you mentioned, sure. I would argue that he does all of them as much if not more so, and the only thing he lacks is the ludicrously good ability on the ball that they had. But football isn't just about ability on the ball.
Im not a ronaldo obsessive, but one thing that frustrates me about his detractors is the accusation that he is more just a fantastic athlete that has perfected his ruthlessness than a great natural talent.
He is at an age where many of the players who have been regarded as superstars were almost washed up or certainly on a decline. Original Ronaldo, kaka, ronaldinho, george best, maradona and so many more greats of the game were shadows of their peak by 33.
Its like ronaldo is suffering for adapting his game to sustain a consistency that no player has ever matched. The truth is that from 2006-2009 ronaldo was incredible to watch and it was like he could do it all. He had pace power left defenders for dead and scored wonder goals. One of the most exciting players i have watched at united.
It seems as if his later years are for some reason being allowed to erode the reality and for some his reputation would be better had he burned out at 29
He is at an age where many of the players who have been regarded as superstars were almost washed up or certainly on a decline. Original Ronaldo, kaka, ronaldinho, george best, maradona and so many more greats of the game were shadows of their peak by 33.
Its like ronaldo is suffering for adapting his game to sustain a consistency that no player has ever matched. The truth is that from 2006-2009 ronaldo was incredible to watch and it was like he could do it all. He had pace power left defenders for dead and scored wonder goals. One of the most exciting players i have watched at united.
It seems as if his later years are for some reason being allowed to erode the reality and for some his reputation would be better had he burned out at 29
I was just stating that it’s comparing apples to oranges. The fact is that yes Ronaldo is a more limited footballer now but in his earlier career he wasn’t. Comparing him to a different type of player is meaningless. Also look at Maradona at 32/33 he was washed up due to other things in his life. Surely the longevity that Ronaldo has displayed puts him high (probably top 3 ever) and the fact he (and Messi) have been so consistent for so many years.
Benzema is a completley different type of player compared to Van Basten & Zidane. Are you aware that he's 4th highest UCL top scorer and was/is the best fowards in the world during 10s and at the end of 00s.
I think you have to take into account a range of factors.
Brazil Ronaldo scored 352 in 518 for club (0.68) and 62 in 98 for country (0.63)
His peak year which stands out massively from his record was as a youngster scoring 47 in 49 in 96-97 for Barcelona.
His second peak year was 35 in 36 at PSV in 94-95
This is in terms of goals to games.
Ronaldo has in multiple seasons scored more than the games played. 61 in 54 being a peak.
He has a total of 573 in 763 (0.75) and for country 85 in 152 (0.56).
Given he started as a winger and Ronaldo always a striker I'd say there is literally no comparison.
Brazilian Ronaldo was a beast and left us a few incredible memories. His sheer power and strength make him seem better than Cristiano to some, just because he is more groomed and less grizzly looking.
The stats don't lie. Ronaldo has more stand out seasons and a more effective career. The only thing Ronaldo currently has over Cristiano is his stand out performances at World Cups leading to victory twice, but this is surrounded by a generation of elite Brazilian players.
Cristiano is lucky to have won a Euros given the relative strength of the teams. Lucky/ a figurehead and driver in otherwise limited circumstances.
Cristiano is the highest international European scorer ever! I think that tells you something.
I understand why you live Brazilian Ronaldo, I was mesmerized by what he could do and given the different sets of players in and around its very hard to compare, but for me Cristiano has shown he the stand out player over his career so far and he still isn't finished.
Maybe we'll never have a fair comparison because of Brazil Ronaldos injuries and mental health problems. But even less so could you judge a Duncan Edwards or some guy off the street who decided not to pursue a career in football.
You have to judge on merit and facts and Cristiano has conquered in two major leagues and been a phenomenon for a relative small country in football standards.
Good Post.
The only thing Brazilian Ronaldo had over Ronaldo is international career, but I wouldn’t say by much (2 WC support by golden generation vs 1 Euro support by poor teammates, while Ronaldo has more international goals than Brazilian Ronaldo too). For club career, it’s country miles difference between the two.
I understand Brazilian Ronaldo has had injuries problems which kind of hinder the chance of him reaching the potential height of his career. But for those saying he didn’t have good support cast at club level to win more trophies, is really a very lame excuse. He played for Barca and Real, plus a record breaking transfer of his choice to Italy - Inter. The Real squad he joined at that time had just won 3 CL in 5 years too, with Zidane, Raul, Carlos, Beckham, Casillas, Makelele as his teammates - this is as good as any squad can get in any generation, and Brazilian Ronaldo has largely been a disappointment at club level.
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There's a lot of players who can claim to be the GOAT if we are going by stats alone in the same way if we are going by natural talent and genius alone then Matt Le Tissier would have to get a mention alongside Messi. But when you take every single criteria into account from ability to score types of goals that no one else can, Ability to score goals that will live long in the memory, Ability to score these types of goals on the big occasions, consistency when scoring on the big occasions, consistency overall, amount of Balon D'ors won, Amount of trophies etc then it's about time that CR7 gets taken from the level 2 of GOATS that most people had once put him in in a list that includes Zidane, Cryuff, Muller etc and placed in level one of GOATS that includes just Messi, Maradona and Pele so far even though CR7 might not have been born with the natural ability that some on that list have but definitely makes up for it in other ways to make that list.
I tend to agree with this. It is easy to forget that he became the best in the world during the 2006-2009 period, winning titles (domestic and European), winning the Ballon D'Or and being sold as the most expensive player in history while being the previous (wingerish) version of himself. He reached the top as that player, and since evolved and solidified his position as an all time great. His transition shouldn't really be held against him.
In hindsite you might say that the picture was an unwise move from Messi as it had clearly motivated Ronaldo for the WC. 4 goals in 2 matches is a raging start, while Messi on the other side has missed a penalty :-P
There are cocaine based drugs who enhace performance, but "pure" cocaine will make you a libai
Remeber that there's no Bosman law in the late 80's, so teams have to assemble a squad with 4/5 fantastic foreign players and be creative in scouting decent to good talented players in the national pool.
Just because there were better players than Alemão doesn't mean he wasn't a fantastic player. He really was. Alemão in his prime was one of the most complete midfielders you could get.
Yes, Careca is no Van Basten, but he still was one of the world best strikers at the time.
Don't get me wrong, Maradona is my 3rd favourite player ever (after M. Laudrup and Fenómeno), and I know that he was the GOAT in the Napoli team, but if he didn't have some quality players arround him he wouldn't had won nothing.
This argument will be put to bed in the next 4 years.
Ronaldo will be rocking up at the next World Cup, still scoring goals, and the likes of Messi will be nowhere near as effective even if he's still playing.
Ronaldo will be rocking up at the next World Cup, still scoring goals, and the likes of Messi will be nowhere near as effective even if he's still playing.
Nah, the picture is great. I like how Messi keeps trolling Ronaldo. The arrogance really deserves it. :P
something that cant really ever been decided as its so objective, everyone has there own opinion on how to choose it, does Ronaldo or Messi need to win the world cup to say there the best? do they need to go to Napoli and win the league with them ? is it just goals ? or do we want entertainment? is it longevity?
of the players i have seen my top 5 would be Ronaldo(Brazil) Ronaldinho, Messi, Ronaldo (Portugal) Iniesta. Ronaldo (portugal) might have been higher had he still performed the way he was at United, but for the last 5 years i see him more as a goalscorer, where as the other entertained far more for me.
of the players i have seen my top 5 would be Ronaldo(Brazil) Ronaldinho, Messi, Ronaldo (Portugal) Iniesta. Ronaldo (portugal) might have been higher had he still performed the way he was at United, but for the last 5 years i see him more as a goalscorer, where as the other entertained far more for me.
I'd agree with that. People seem to ignore/forget the fact that, while Cristiano is mostly "just" an uprecetented goalscorer now, he was world class in pretty much every offensive aspect of the game over the course of his career (at his peak he was arguably WC at everything). He might have never completed the package quite so impressively as Messi did in his prime, but he has definitely done enough to be considered alongside him as the greatest of all time.
I personally think that Messi still edges it, but the gap is now (or currently more accurately, considering Messi is two years younger) almost none existing, which just didn't seem possible 5 years ago. That really tells a story about Ronaldos mentality.
I think I am starting to understand more now. The Cristiano fans reckon he's had the 'greatest' career. Okay, that makes more sense, trophy-wise. I thought by greatest they meant best in terms of ability. This is why I was confused over people bringing up career tallies etc, when you only need one peak season for ability. Still, I think the 'who is the best ever' question is more interesting, and probably more pertinent to historical discussions.
That's not true though. Consistency is a part of ability. A person who can perform brilliantly over the course of ten seasons is ultimately better than someone who can only do it for one.
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For my understanding best player is meant to be in terms of ability, greatest player is meant to be in terms of achievements and everything (include the way he achieve things, his peak, consistency, longevity, trophies, individual honors, records, stats, big moment etc) - you can only be regarded as the greatest if you achieve alot. I do think Messi is probably the best of all time, whereas Ronaldo is probably the greatest.
Also, best ever is subjective as people have different hierichy and preference of style. Greatest is more objective in the sense that those criteria are much more measurable.
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Being able to maintain your level over several seasons is part of what people consider. Di Maria had a great season but I don't think many judge him as a player to be at that level.
I don't know who is better. I don't know if they're better than Pele or Maradona (whom we're obliged to mention, apparently) or Cruyff or Beckenbauer or Zidane or Eusebio or any of the other names that come up. There are probably others as good, especially in the back half of the team, but people get stuck on certain names. It's like those ridiculous 'Best albums ever!' lists except we don't even have the luxury of putting on their careers and listening for 45 minutes.
I don't know who is better. I don't know if they're better than Pele or Maradona (whom we're obliged to mention, apparently) or Cruyff or Beckenbauer or Zidane or Eusebio or any of the other names that come up. There are probably others as good, especially in the back half of the team, but people get stuck on certain names. It's like those ridiculous 'Best albums ever!' lists except we don't even have the luxury of putting on their careers and listening for 45 minutes.
Yeah agree on this. His game is just so efficient. It was always moreso than Messi's and those kind of dribblers, but has become more and more efficient as time goes on. If anything, when you think about it, this makes it even more impressive. He isn't dribbling through 5 players and scoring but somehow has the stats of someone who can do that.
for starters, Messi ha other great players around him so I don't think he "leads" them anywhere as much as Ronaldo drags the others along. no doubt in my mind who is better. top European goal scorer in internationals, 51 hat-tricks in his career. Ronaldo by some way (oh,and Argentina won't win the WC)
Nope, Maradona before Ronaldo any day.
Every American sporting term is just horrible.
Winningest
Clutch
Quickness
Flopping
Intangibles
Ronaldo scored a penalty and a soft goal on the way to the 4 goals this tournament so far. Cheryshev and Costa both have 3 goals. Take away the penalty and the soft goal and he isn't even top scorer. The other 2 have more goals from open play. Does this mean Costa and Cheryshev are second and third best players in the world?
Give it up
No idea about Cheryshev, his opponents are weak though.
But Costa scored a 3 yard tap in and a lucky mis-hit goal, then the best one he scored is a beauty, but arguably commit a foul beforehand. So by your standard they all shouldn't count too
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Another factor that has to be used to determine GOAT is the entertainment value. In their prime, who would you rather watch play football? As a Man Utd fan and I watched Ronaldo grow into the great player he is. However, Messi, by a good distance, is the more enjoyable to watch. The things he does with the ball brings joy to millions.
It's not even close if you judge on entertainment value.
People will still cling onto Messi's 93 goals in a calendar year. Ronaldo has left him behind in the last 4 years.
You say it’s not subjective, then post a completely subjective list. Why not just accept my assessment is different to yours. This is boring me now.
So you think the current Ronaldo is better than Messi between 2009-2013?
For the majority it has never been about stats. You just have to watch them both play to see who is obviously better.
Those are all good terms. Well intangibles is stupid, but whatever. Threepeat and Goat should be killed with extreme prejudice
Ronaldinho is easily the most entertaining player I’ve ever watched.
I suppose you can't rebut that, 'It's just obvious who is better, forgetting stats, trophies, individual accolades and longevity', everyone has their own way of judging greatness.
Ronaldo won that penalty and he also won the free kick. That was against Spain, not Saudi Arabia or Egypt. And speaking of soft goals, Costa's goal yesterday was soft.
Should he win this year's Ballon d'Or, it would be 10 years between his first and most recent Ballo d'Or. That's incredible!
Give Cristiano credit for what he does for God's sake.
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But they both have those in abundance.
Giving credit for winning penalties and free kicks now. Jesus.
They do, but when comparing the two you can't overlook those factors. I enjoy watching both of them equally but for different reasons. I just hate the good/bad, gifted/grafter binaries that are thrown around. Those people think that Messi got where he is without working immensely hard everyday or that Ronaldo doesn't have outrageous natural ability are just misguided, really.