Rodwell for Welbeck?

I just think we need to secure the players we cant do without, before worrying about this kind of up and comer. Once we've signed Sahin, Banega or I guess Modric and got a goalkeeper in, then by all means pay whatever kings ransom Moyes wants for Rodwell.

If we end up spending £30 million+ on Rodwell and Adam then you have to wonder if that money couldnt have been better spent.
 
My mate, who's a Toffee & a regular on the "Blue-Kipper" website - the Everton equivalent to Red Cafe, told me some time ago (way before the rumours found its way to the media), that all the talk on there was that a deal had been done to sell Rodwell to United, as its Rodwells desired choice for a Summer move!

He also said Everton folk arent that bothered he's goin, because they think his form has dipped considerably & he's very injury prone. The money would be more welcome!
 
I'd do the deal if its a straight swap tbh. Rodwell under Fergie could turn into a world beater. Welbeck is quality no doubt and i would love for him to be given a chance but we are pretty stacked up top. Especially with Rodwell's ability to play CB as well as midfield it would give us greater versatility as well as some more bite and presence in the middle of the park.
 
I don't see why we'd trade Welbeck for any player unless we were going high profile and were trying to reduce the fee.

There's absolutely no point trading one young talented English player for another....

Spend the extra £10m and buy him outright or offload someone like Owen.
 
I doubt Welbeck will get much football for us next season, but I'd prefer we sent him out on loan again rather than use him in a trade for another player.
 
Ekeke said:
I just think we need to secure the players we cant do without, before worrying about this kind of up and comer. Once we've signed Sahin, Banega or I guess Modric and got a goalkeeper in, then by all means pay whatever kings ransom Moyes wants for Rodwell.

If we end up spending £30 million+ on Rodwell and Adam then you have to wonder if that money couldnt have been better spent.
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Fair point but equally when young, English players with (apparently) significant potential are available then you have to be interested whether the timing is right or not. The bedrock of United has been and always will be British. A key element of our success is the low turnover of players which partly comes from a largely British squad.
 
I'd rather sell Berbatov than Welbeck.

And I love Berbatov. I've been a fan of him for years. But for me Welbeck is more important for our future. He's a young, very talented Manc - and that's not something we should sell!

To sum up: feck off, Moyes. ;) (Oh, and I like Moyes too. I actually talked to him before United-Everton last season while his players were warming up. I should've told him to stay away from Welbeck back then... )
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Fair point but equally when young, English players with (apparently) significant potential are available then you have to be interested whether the timing is right or not. The bedrock of United has been and always will be British. A key element of our success is the low turnover of players which partly comes from a largely British squad.
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Spot on.

We arguably didn't need Rooney when fergie spent a small fortune on him.

Rodwell and other young English talents are always tempting buys because you don't need to worry about how they'll adjust to the weather, language or lifestyle and they're less likely to want to piss of to Italy or Spain when they're at a top club in England.

I've seen this lad a fair few times and he's looked good. Strong, good athlete and with plenty of energy - could be a top player we wish we'd signed if we don't. As always no guarantees but looks like he's got a lot of potential - even if he's not had the best of seasons.
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Fair point but equally when young, English players with (apparently) significant potential are available then you have to be interested whether the timing is right or not. The bedrock of United has been and always will be British. A key element of our success is the low turnover of players which partly comes from a largely British squad.
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Which is exactly why Welbeck is going nowhere for now
 
Red Hand Devil said:
My mate, who's a Toffee & a regular on the "Blue-Kipper" website - the Everton equivalent to Red Cafe, told me some time ago (way before the rumours found its way to the media), that all the talk on there was that a deal had been done to sell Rodwell to United, as its Rodwells desired choice for a Summer move!

He also said Everton folk arent that bothered he's goin, because they think his form has dipped considerably & he's very injury prone. The money would be more welcome!
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Great. Are we going to get another Hargreaves? There's no way I'd swap Welbeck for Rodwell, or Henderson from Sunderland for that matter.
 
Ekeke said:
Which is exactly why Welbeck is going nowhere for now
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Exactly.

Seems absurd to try and sign Rodwell on the basis he's a young, English talent with huge potential if that means sacrificing another player who fits that description in order to do so.

Give them Diouf, give them Owen, give them whoever but swapping Welbeck for Rodwell makes no sense at all.
 
Ekeke said:
Which is exactly why Welbeck is going nowhere for now
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Yep. Not to mention he's actually grown at United which is an added bonus. We'll need those, especially those who can be really excellent players. Giggs and Scholes won't last forever.

It's a pretty impressive thread considering the fact it's based on a Daily Mail article saying Moyes would be interested in Welbeck for Rodwell, but not even hinting we have any intention of letting Danny go.
 
If this was the case last summer, I would taken the deal in a heart beat but not this year. Welbeck has improved dramatically and Rodwell not so much due to his injuries.
 
Would be a ridiculous transfer. Will never happen, luckily.
 
RDCR07 said:
If this was the case last summer, I would taken the deal in a heart beat but not this year. Welbeck has improved dramatically and Rodwell not so much due to his injuries.
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Welbeck's just been able to show it on a regular basis for the first time, always had the talent. If he'd been at Everton as a youngster, it's quite possible that he'd be as hyped up as Rodwell currently is, being touted around for £20m.

Quality young player, delighted that we already have him.
 
Why isn't Welbeck rated that much by the british media?

He has proved to be a good in the premier league in a much better team than Everton this season.

Why would Rodwell cost more than Welbeck who has not proved anything yet.

And plus Welbeck is a attacking player.

I am confused.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Why isn't Welbeck rated that much by the british media?

He has proved to be a good in the premier league in a much better team than Everton this season.

Why would Rodwell cost more than Welbeck who has not proved anything yet.

And plus Welbeck is a attacking player.

I am confused.
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If he comes back and starts scoring reasonably regularly for us, he soon will be. I reckon he'll get his first England cap within the year too, so when they actually sit down and watch him properly, it'll soon click. Then it'll be up to him to kick on and really maximise his potential.
 
Is Rodwell that good anyway? Those shot side and backward pass are not exactly what we need, we have Carrick who can do that and also add creative forward passes as well.
15mil for this guy will be too much.
Welbeck? The feck.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
In my opinion, I dont think either Welbeck or Macheda will make it with us but can both be very good players for other clubs in their own right.
Different players adapt in different stages of course but Welbeck had had some great games for Sunderland but he's not been consistent to the extent Cleverly has for Wigan or even Richardson was for West Brom.
Offer Inter cash plus Macheda for young Wesley?
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Welbeck was consistently good in his games before injury, with more stand-out performances in the space of a few games than Cleverley has had this season.

Macheda wouldn't appeal too much to Inter - he's been poor in the limited chances he's got in Serie A; though I still rate him.

As for OP's question - god no. We shouldn't need to get rid of one of our best young assets in order to get a promising young midfielder.
 
Welbeck will NEVER be a (regular) United striker in a gazillion years. He plain aint good enough

He'll do okay for some mid-table side, possibly, but he's not United quality

So I'm not just spouting here's my analysis:

His movement off the ball is awful. Put the ball in front of him and he'll get you a fair few goals because of his pace, and occassionally he strikes the ball properly. BUT that's not enough for a United striker. He doesnt link up, he isnt a natural, and the simply doesnt have a decent footballing brain
 
Yeah, its always a good idea to watch a player play football before making claims like that.

The vast majority of Welbeck's goals this season have come from good movement in the box and in some of his games his linkup play has been so good that even if he put in the same performance in a United shirt, he might have been winning man of the match. His performance and goal against Chelsea best show off both these facets where he was brilliant in his linkup play and his movement led to pouncing on a goal
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Welbeck will NEVER be a (regular) United striker in a gazillion years. He plain aint good enough

He'll do okay for some mid-table side, possibly, but he's not United quality

So I'm not just spouting here's my analysis:

His movement off the ball is awful. Put the ball in front of him and he'll get you a fair few goals because of his pace, and occassionally he strikes the ball properly. BUT that's not enough for a United striker. He doesnt link up, he isnt a natural, and the simply doesnt have a decent footballing brain
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Are we talking about the same Welbeck here? Either you're on a wum, or you haven't been paying much attention.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Welbeck will NEVER be a (regular) United striker in a gazillion years. He plain aint good enough

He'll do okay for some mid-table side, possibly, but he's not United quality

So I'm not just spouting here's my analysis:

His movement off the ball is awful. Put the ball in front of him and he'll get you a fair few goals because of his pace, and occassionally he strikes the ball properly. BUT that's not enough for a United striker. He doesnt link up, he isnt a natural, and the simply doesnt have a decent footballing brain
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wow
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Welbeck will NEVER be a (regular) United striker in a gazillion years. He plain aint good enough

He'll do okay for some mid-table side, possibly, but he's not United quality

So I'm not just spouting here's my analysis:

His movement off the ball is awful. Put the ball in front of him and he'll get you a fair few goals because of his pace, and occassionally he strikes the ball properly. BUT that's not enough for a United striker. He doesnt link up, he isnt a natural, and the simply doesnt have a decent footballing brain
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Have you not watched any of his games for Sunderland?

I think he's progressed a lot in the last year - partly due to game time, partly due to being more comfortable in his body thanks to filling out - and you'd be surprised. I also think your analysis is a bit off, and a bit hasty given he's not played that many games for us.
 
Popper's 'Swap Thread' comes to mind, how many of them actually come about and in this particular example, seems even less likely.
 
Welbeck's brilliant, as is Rodwell, and luckily I think come next season we'll have them both.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Welbeck will NEVER be a (regular) United striker in a gazillion years. He plain aint good enough

He'll do okay for some mid-table side, possibly, but he's not United quality

So I'm not just spouting here's my analysis:

His movement off the ball is awful. Put the ball in front of him and he'll get you a fair few goals because of his pace, and occassionally he strikes the ball properly. BUT that's not enough for a United striker. He doesnt link up, he isnt a natural, and the simply doesnt have a decent footballing brain
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And people only attack Scholesy, look at this? Flipping heck.
 
It's possible. To be honest I'm a little tired of this assumption every time one of our players go out on loan, and there's been many of them, that they'll definitely come back and get into the first team. It rarely ever happens and I'm aware of Ferguson's comments this week in that respect but I just don't believe it will happen. At least with most of the lads out on loan at the moment. A case can be made for Cleverley I think but it wouldn't surprise me to see the manager be completely open and willing to use any of them in part-exchange + cash deals if any of his transfer targets this summer are obtainable that way.
 
Aaron said:
It's possible. To be honest I'm a little tired of this assumption every time one of our players go out on loan, and there's been many of them, that they'll definitely come back and get into the first team. It rarely ever happens and I'm aware of Ferguson's comments this week in that respect but I just don't believe it will happen. At least with most of the lads out on loan at the moment. A case can be made for Cleverley I think but it wouldn't surprise me to see the manager be completely open and willing to use any of them in part-exchange + cash deals if any of his transfer targets this summer are obtainable that way.
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People seem to be so in favour of Cleverly but I would say Welbeck is a much safer bet to be a long term United regular. I think they'll both make it, Cleverly at least as a squad player, but this season Welbeck has been far, far more impressive.
 
Fiskey said:
People seem to be so in favour of Cleverly but I would say Welbeck is a much safer bet to be a long term United regular. I think they'll both make it, Cleverly at least as a squad player, but this season Welbeck has been far, far more impressive.
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I think both have a chance and I'd prefer Cleverley because he's had a good time away and he's left footed which in a sense contexualises the options from midfield. It's also very, very difficult to break through and become an established striker at Manchester United. Very difficult. Of course it could happen but I am dubious about all these guesses that him and Diouf and Kiko and Cleverley will all come back and become established first team stars. It's possible, I guess but at the same time very, very improbable. But we get it the same whenever a player goes on loan, we hear great things from them and everyone calls anyone who doesn't think they'll return to Old Trafford to become a hero is an idiot and then they just end up somewhere else and we end up with someone else and move on.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I think expectation about our loan players coming back and having an impact next year is, as always, very optimistic.
 
Aaron said:
I think both have a chance and I'd prefer Cleverley because he's had a good time away and he's left footed which in a sense contexualises the options from midfield. It's also very, very difficult to break through and become an established striker at Manchester United. Very difficult. Of course it could happen but I am dubious about all these guesses that him and Diouf and Kiko and Cleverley will all come back and become established first team stars. It's possible, I guess but at the same time very, very improbable. But we get it the same whenever a player goes on loan, we hear great things from them and everyone calls anyone who doesn't think they'll return to Old Trafford to become a hero is an idiot and then they just end up somewhere else and we end up with someone else and move on.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I think expectation about our loan players coming back and having an impact next year is, as always, very optimistic.
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I have my doubts about Kiko too, a bit like Gibson its only the faith placed in him by Fergie that gives me faith.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think Welbeck is a star, a future top 20 player in the world, and there is no chance that we would ever consider selling him. Cleverly is right footed btw.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Welbeck will NEVER be a (regular) United striker in a gazillion years. He plain aint good enough

He'll do okay for some mid-table side, possibly, but he's not United quality

So I'm not just spouting here's my analysis:

His movement off the ball is awful. Put the ball in front of him and he'll get you a fair few goals because of his pace, and occassionally he strikes the ball properly. BUT that's not enough for a United striker. He doesnt link up, he isnt a natural, and the simply doesnt have a decent footballing brain
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This is just wrong in every way. You've named his strengths and called them weaknesses and and decided that he is a player who runs in behind which he's only ever really done in that short loan spell at Preston and not to great affect. For Sunderland he plays as a second striker or from the left, and he usually played as a second striker in the ressies. Doubt you've ever actually watched him.
 
Aaron said:
It's possible. To be honest I'm a little tired of this assumption every time one of our players go out on loan, and there's been many of them, that they'll definitely come back and get into the first team. It rarely ever happens and I'm aware of Ferguson's comments this week in that respect but I just don't believe it will happen..
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It very much depends on the player. Looking at Welbeck, we played him quite a lot (compared with other youngsters) in the last couple of years even when he didn't look that good and a lot of us wondered whether he's really got it. I can't see us not giving him a fair go now he's proven he can do a job in the Premier League. Diouf, Cleverley, yeah, doubtful. But not Welbeck.
 
If Welbeck was not a United player, posters would advocate signing him for over £20m. There would be a thread with hundreds or thousands of posts with people salivating over the prospect of us signing him, with hypothetical line-ups and plenty of YouTube videos.

Because he is a local and homegrown player, people are not excited by him. A player from another team must be a better prospect. It is insanity, but it is the only explanation I can think of. Or perhaps Rodwell is rated very highly on computer games, and maybe Welbeck is rated poorly. That is another explanation I can think of.

Either way, I am so disappointed that many of our supporters would advocate parting with one of the most exciting players we've had come through the system in many years, especially for a player who has shown nothing at all special in the past 2 years (Rodwell).
 
Aaron said:
I think both have a chance and I'd prefer Cleverley because he's had a good time away and he's left footed which in a sense contexualises the options from midfield. It's also very, very difficult to break through and become an established striker at Manchester United. Very difficult. Of course it could happen but I am dubious about all these guesses that him and Diouf and Kiko and Cleverley will all come back and become established first team stars. It's possible, I guess but at the same time very, very improbable. But we get it the same whenever a player goes on loan, we hear great things from them and everyone calls anyone who doesn't think they'll return to Old Trafford to become a hero is an idiot and then they just end up somewhere else and we end up with someone else and move on.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I think expectation about our loan players coming back and having an impact next year is, as always, very optimistic.
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Cleverley's not left footed, is he? Can just play on the left wing. Welbeck's not exactly bad with his left either - check out his goal for the England U21s last week.

I'm certainly not assuming that each of he, Macheda, Cleverley and Diouf will come back and star. It'll be fantastic if two of them make it, and Diouf I'm not holding out a great deal of hope for. Welbeck's pace, incidentally, I'd say is one of his lesser stand out qualities, the greater being his touch, combination play and (potentially) body strength. The pace is just a bonus. Overall, he has a very good chance.

You only have to watch him to get a sense of the quality; the loan spell has just been a validation of it, not the basis. I can understand why people would be suspicious of one of our academy products being rated so highly, it being a very rare thing, but just watch him play - clearly got something.
 
johnmufc said:
If Welbeck was not a United player, posters would advocate signing him for over £20m. There would be a thread with hundreds or thousands of posts with people salivating over the prospect of us signing him, with hypothetical line-ups and plenty of YouTube videos.

Because he is a local and homegrown player, people are not excited by him. A player from another team must be a better prospect. It is insanity, but it is the only explanation I can think of. Or perhaps Rodwell is rated very highly on computer games, and maybe Welbeck is rated poorly. That is another explanation I can think of.

Either way, I am so disappointed that many of our supporters would advocate parting with one of the most exciting players we've had come through the system in many years, especially for a player who has shown nothing at all special in the past 2 years (Rodwell).
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You know what John, you're probably right but these same people are the ones who claimed we should sell Ronaldo, buy Aaron Lennon, buy Nigel Reo-Coker, buy Kevin Nolan, buy all these players who have underwhelmed.
Lennon is a decent player of course but he's no Ronaldo (who is, to be fair), but basing his ability on the back of a very good performance against a very bad Chelsea side doesn't mean he'll be great; I hope he will be but from what I've seen, he won't.
Cleverley has scored four goals from midfield for bottom Wigan in 17 games, Welbeck has six in 24 for a decent Sunderland side and whilst it's not all about goals, he still hasn't done enough to suggest to me that in a year or two, he can lead our line or at least be part of an attacking line-up CONSISTENTLY against the top clubs in England and Europe.
Saying that, Mark Hughes didn't make his debut for United until he was twenty, which back then was very late for a pro footballer, so he has time to develop and I sure hope he does.
Would be nice to have a home-grown local lad upfront sticking goals in.
 
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