Rodwell for Welbeck?

Scoreboard Red said:
In my opinion, I dont think either Welbeck or Macheda will make it with us but can both be very good players for other clubs in their own right.
Different players adapt in different stages of course but Welbeck had had some great games for Sunderland but he's not been consistent to the extent Cleverly has for Wigan or even Richardson was for West Brom.
Offer Inter cash plus Macheda for young Wesley?
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I think he's been far more impressive than Cleverley has so far, part of that is down to Cleverley not getting a proper run in the team because of injuries but still. The only time Welbeck struggled for Sunderland was when he initially joined but after the settling in period he was one of their most consistently dangerous players. To do that at a impressive club like Sunderland, at his age with relatively little Premier League experience takes some talent. I think you're underrating him a bit.

Rodwell is obviously a superb talent too but in terms of potential I think him and Welbeck are too close to call. It's certain that Welbeck has been better of late though. With one not being significantly better than the other I don't think it's worth swapping, especially as one is a Manc who has been raised at this club and can play pretty much every attacking position.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Roy Keane didn't have as good a season in 1992/93 as he had in 1990/91 & 1991/92, but his qualities were evident enough to prompt United & Blackburn to offer £4mil for him that summer.
Not saying he'll be a Roy Keane but his qualities are clear...
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True. We shouldnt even hesitate to bid £4 million for him

But Welbeck's qualities are also clear and he's worth a fair bit more than that. For now he's also more proven at premier league level.
 
Might not be a bad move though, Wellbeck has potential, but don't see him starting ahead of Rooney and Hernandez, or Berbatov at least for next few years time. And for Rodwell, I think we badly need some new blood in midfield.
 
Moyes is dreaming here. There is no way (I hope) that Welbeck will be sold in the near future. He's proving to be a very a good player in the league and with a 'better' set of players around him who knows what he can achieve.

I like Rodwell but am not so convinced we should be splashing mega money on him in the summer. The only problem is that as he is young and the more he develops his price could increase.
 
LARulz said:
Moyes is dreaming here. There is no way (I hope) that Welbeck will be sold in the near future.
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Agreed. Welbeck's a local lad who will wait for his chance with us - he's going nowhere.

I don't know why Moyes doesn't fight like hell to get Macheda on loan - he's barely got a fit striker, no one to score goals, and it would do Macheda a lot of good to go to a team like that for a year and play a lot.

They could easily get the services of a good player for very little outlay there.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Might not be a bad move though, Wellbeck has potential, but don't see him starting ahead of Rooney and Hernandez, or Berbatov at least for next few years time. And for Rodwell, I think we badly need some new blood in midfield.
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We do but he simply isnt the answer. Whats he going to do that the likes of Fletcher and Carrick cant? Is he going to give us what Scholes does on a good day or used to? No.

If he was to come in to add competition for places thats fine, but he's not the next progression for our midfield or the answer to playing without Scholes. And to come in as extra competition, then someone else surely must leave. Few options there with Fletcher and Carrick (?) getting new contracts recently. And thats on top of Scholes spot, going to whoever is Scholes replacement.

Would anyone actually have much faith in say an Anderson and Rodwell midfield in a match against Chelsea/Madrid/Barcelona ?

I wouldnt.
 
Another thing to consider with Welbeck is to look at their drop off in form whenever he got injured and their best results wehre coming with him and Gyan playing instead of Bent. We would be mad to consider letting him go on the cheap.
 
Ekeke said:
We do but he simply isnt the answer. Whats he going to do that the likes of Fletcher and Carrick cant? Is he going to give us what Scholes does on a good day or used to? No.
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He has the potential to be a different type of player to either Carrick or Fletcher - it's pointless comparing them as Fletcher and Carrick are way further ahead in their development and experience.

Why would we buy Rodwell with the aim of having him 'give us what Scholes does on a good day'?

Does Valencia give us what Ronaldo did?

Does Carrick give us what Keane did?

Does VdS give us what Schmeichel did?

etc etc

We'd be buying potential, and he would fulfill his role in his way, not attempt to fill it in Scholes' way.

Ekeke said:
Would anyone actually have much faith in say an Anderson and Rodwell midfield in a match against Chelsea/Madrid/Barcelona ?

I wouldnt.
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Well that seems a cheap point - no one would look that good alongside Anderson in a midfield 2 against Barcelona or Madrid.

You know we'd play a midfield 3 against such teams and, frankly, a midfield 3 of a fit/focused Anderson, Scholes and Rodwell - or with Carrick/Fletcher - would be potentially fantastic.
 
It seems that some people are just happy to swap out our players for anyone. Adams! Henderson! Rodwell! Why not? Because it's bullshit. These clubs can afford to bring through kids because there's no pressure to win every week. It's harder here, it don't mean our kids aren't worth it. I'd rather see a Tunnicliffe then us getting rid of a talent like Wellbeck just to get Rodwell who is just as big a risk as anyone.
 
The main thing with Welbeck is his versatility. He's one of those players who can effectively play any of the forward positions we might need him to play.

If we look at this season for example, it would have been handy to have him available when Valencia was injured especially for the times Park and Nani were also out. Because he could fill in on the right. Due to the same situation he could have also provided Giggs with more competition on the left while he was an assured starter. He can cover Rooney's current position in the hole, linking midfield and attack with his passing. Or he could lead the line and try and get on the end of chances.

When it comes to versatility and options you cant ask for a lot more than that and with the squad number limit, players like that are essential.

While its true that Rodwell is also versatile, there's absolutely no reason to lose one to gain one.
 
Welbeck has looked great this season.

Not seen the fuss about Rodwell.
 
Ekeke said:
The main thing with Welbeck is his versatility. He's one of those players who can effectively play any of the forward positions we might need him to play.

If we look at this season for example, it would have been handy to have him available when Valencia was injured especially for the times Park and Nani were also out. Because he could fill in on the right. Due to the same situation he could have also provided Giggs with more competition on the left while he was an assured starter. He can cover Rooney's current position in the hole, linking midfield and attack with his passing. Or he could lead the line and try and get on the end of chances.
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Agree with all this. I just hope he's not one of those young players whose versatility threatens to harm his development.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
He has the potential to be a different type of player to either Carrick or Fletcher - it's pointless comparing them as Fletcher and Carrick are way further ahead in their development and experience.

Why would we buy Rodwell with the aim of having him 'give us what Scholes does on a good day'?
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Because thats what we need, obviously.

Does Valencia give us what Ronaldo did?
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Quality from the right? Sometimes yeah. Not as often

Does Carrick give us what Keane did?
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Balance to the midfield? Absolutely. Thats why it worked

Does VdS give us what Schmeichel did?
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Yes



We'd be buying potential, and he would fulfill his role in his way, not attempt to fill it in Scholes' way.
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Then he's clearly not the answer.



Well that seems a cheap point - no one would look that good alongside Anderson in a midfield 2 against Barcelona or Madrid.
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Why not? Other midfielders have looked good against Madrid and Barcelona playing next to lesser players than Anderson.

You know we'd play a midfield 3 against such teams and, frankly, a midfield 3 of a fit/focused Anderson, Scholes and Rodwell - or with Carrick/Fletcher - would be potentially fantastic.
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Thats true, we probably would - unless we actually went out and bought one or two top draw midfield talents and perhaps then we'd have the confidence to play a 2 against them. But yes most likely the three you are correct.

But Anderson, Scholes and Rodwell is not convincing either. On football manager maybe, but not in real life
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Agree with all this. I just hope he's not one of those young players whose versatility threatens to harm his development.
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I think he will be if he stays at United and thats just down to us having quality in his first choice position so if he wants games he'll have to make do.

But it could just be for a couple of seasons and then as Berbatov ages he could be the natural replacement and save us a lot of money.
 
Sorry Ekeke, none of those players I mentioned were like for like replacements and all bought clearly different qualities to the position from their predecessors.

If you want to argue Valencia is identical to Ronaldo, Carrick to Keane or that VdS's personality was a like for like replacement for Peter Schmeichel's then good luck to you. It would seem odd to me but you're welcome to it.

We wouldn't need someone to directly supply us with the qualities of Scholes when he goes - if we waste time looking for another Scholes we'll be here forever. Rodwell possibly has the potential to be a big talent and to inhabit a serious role in the United midfield - might be different to Scholes but he could do it.
 
We dont need someone identical to Scholes, we need someone who can use the ball constructively like Scholes and sensibly choose the best avenue towards goal.

Thats not Rodwell. And we have plenty of players as good if not better than him, to play holding and defensive roles in midfield. Even out of form they are no worse.

So while he is a good prospect and a good young player, he has no business being one of our priorities while we need to solve the issue of moving forward without Scholes. Only the most optimistic of fans can think that we'd have a spare £20 million or so available for Rodwell at a time when our pressing issues are a new first choice keeper and a new playmaker. Even a new CB to compete with Smalling might be a bigger issue.
 
Either the above or a deal where they get Owen permanently would be more likely IMO. Owen to Everton really would rub salt into the Liverpool wounds.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Either the above or a deal where they get Owen permanently would be more likely IMO. Owen to Everton really would rub salt into the Liverpool wounds.
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Really? Don't think they give a stuff TBH.

Losing Torres to Chelsea was what I thought a bitter blow but they've responded well enough.

I can see Owen going there or any club that'll offer him more playing time but not in any shape or form can I see a swap deal involving Welbeck/Rodwell or anyone else at Everton
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Really? Don't think they give a stuff TBH.

Losing Torres to Chelsea was what I thought a bitter blow but they've responded well enough.
I can see Owen going there or any club that'll offer him more playing time but not in any shape or form can I see a swap deal involving Welbeck/Rodwell or anyone else at Everton
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Not so much because they missed out on him but more that they felt him going to United was the ultimate betrayal, and going to Everton would probably make it even worse.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Not so much because they missed out on him but more that they felt him going to United was the ultimate betrayal, and going to Everton would probably make it even worse.
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Again, I'd say no. Wasn't he and his contemporaries meant to be Everton fans anyway?

Much has been made of this ultimate betrayal nonsense...most scousers I've spoken to though we bought an injury prone hasbeen
 
My extensive/expensive Summer shopping list would be along these lines:

De Gea, Gary Cahill, Di Rossi, Adam, Rodwell & Sanchez...

Possibly a left-back to give Evra some competition too. His form has dipped somewhat this year, and i dont see Fabio being able to fill that role in the same way that Raphael has done on the other side!

There's many areas we need improving, right-back is a little problematic if Raphaels injured or suspended, and if O'Shea's injured aswell. I dont trust Wes anymore, i know he's a little rusty (no pun intended) with limited games played, but he makes me well nervous when he's on the ball or tryin to tackle in the box!
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Not so much because they missed out on him but more that they felt him going to United was the ultimate betrayal, and going to Everton would probably make it even worse.
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Liverpool didnt want Owen - United did, so i dont see what Liverpool fans problem is. He still wants to play at the highest level & fair fecks to him for retaining his ambitions!
 
Red Hand Devil said:
My extensive/expensive Summer shopping list would be along these lines:

De Gea, Gary Cahill, Di Rossi, Adam, Rodwell & Sanchez...

Possibly a left-back to give Evra some competition too. His form has dipped somewhat this year, and i dont see Fabio being able to fill that role in the same way that Raphael has done on the other side!

There's many areas we need improving, right-back is a little problematic if Raphaels injured or suspended, and if O'Shea's injured aswell. I dont trust Wes anymore, i know he's a little rusty (no pun intended) with limited games played, but he makes me well nervous when he's on the ball or tryin to tackle in the box!
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De Rossi and Adam? On what basis?De Rossi is vastly overrated and Adam has done alright in a poor Blackpool side but really is not a Utd player.

Cahill I could see here but I feel Bolton would want too much money for him.

You're writing off Fabio based on a handful of appearances??? When he's actually done well considering his inexperience
 
Ekeke said:
We do but he simply isnt the answer. Whats he going to do that the likes of Fletcher and Carrick cant? Is he going to give us what Scholes does on a good day or used to? No.

If he was to come in to add competition for places thats fine, but he's not the next progression for our midfield or the answer to playing without Scholes. And to come in as extra competition, then someone else surely must leave. Few options there with Fletcher and Carrick (?) getting new contracts recently. And thats on top of Scholes spot, going to whoever is Scholes replacement.

Would anyone actually have much faith in say an Anderson and Rodwell midfield in a match against Chelsea/Madrid/Barcelona ?
I wouldnt.
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Nobody seems to be suggesting that this kid will be the answer to all of the problems left when Scholes retires - its clear he won't be, especially given that he's a different sort of player in any event.

In buying a player like Rodwell you're paying for potential, a player who could - given the right club environment - develop into a player with ability in excess of Carrick or Fletcher.

There is never any guarantee about how a young player will turn out, all you can do is take a punt and hope it pays off. That said - its abundantly clear that when Scholes retires he needs to be replaced by someone with the quality now - not in 5 years time. Thats no reason not to buy a top young player as well.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Either the above or a deal where they get Owen permanently would be more likely IMO. Owen to Everton really would rub salt into the Liverpool wounds.
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Is Owen's contract not up at the end of the season?
 
RedRover said:
Nobody seems to be suggesting that this kid will be the answer to all of the problems left when Scholes retires - its clear he won't be, especially given that he's a different sort of player in any event.

In buying a player like Rodwell you're paying for potential, a player who could - given the right club environment - develop into a player with ability in excess of Carrick or Fletcher.

There is never any guarantee about how a young player will turn out, all you can do is take a punt and hope it pays off. That said - its abundantly clear that when Scholes retires he needs to be replaced by someone with the quality now - not in 5 years time. Thats no reason not to buy a top young player as well.
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Do we need a better Fletcher or Carrick? Isnt that where Anderson fits in?

What we definitely need is the means to continue to play excellent football when Scholes isnt playing. We can revisit better holding and defensive minded midfielders when we've worked on the 2 or 3 far more important areas of the team and by that time Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson could be playing well enough not to do anything with it.

As I said before, only the most optimistic of fans would believe that we can afford to replace VDS, bring in a proper midfielder to have an impact right away and then Rodwell on top of it. With the way we've been spending in recent years theres no reason to think we'd have that spare cash is there?
 
Ekeke said:
Do we need a better Fletcher or Carrick? Isnt that where Anderson fits in?

What we definitely need is the means to continue to play excellent football when Scholes isnt playing. We can revisit better holding and defensive minded midfielders when we've worked on the 2 or 3 far more important areas of the team and by that time Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson could be playing well enough not to do anything with it.

As I said before, only the most optimistic of fans would believe that we can afford to replace VDS, bring in a proper midfielder to have an impact right away and then Rodwell on top of it. With the way we've been spending in recent years theres no reason to think we'd have that spare cash is there?
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Well you can read it both ways surely? We've tended to reinforce in groups if you think about it. Yorke, Stam and the Swedish winger for 1998, Veron and RVN in 2000, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves and Tevez in 2007. So thinking we could make three big buys is not utterly unreasonable.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
De Rossi and Adam? On what basis?De Rossi is vastly overrated and Adam has done alright in a poor Blackpool side but really is not a Utd player.

Cahill I could see here but I feel Bolton would want too much money for him.

You're writing off Fabio based on a handful of appearances??? When he's actually done well considering his inexperience
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De Rossi's had a problematic couple of years off the pitch, and thats how his form has maybe dipped. His style suits the Prem & i feel that a new start with us would make him shine!

Adam has played very well this year. You're point that its down to his shit team-mates makin him look good, is retarded. There'll be a whole host of clubs after Adam in the Summer - 3 out of the top 4 will most certainly be interested. He's a fine footballer & seems a good chap also!

Of course Cahill's gonna go for big money - he's an excellent CB, and played very well against us last week. £20m will probably be what it takes to get him & after the defensive crisis of the past two seasons, we need a CB of great quality, and no more Wes Brown filling in!

I'm not writing Fabio off, I just think that if Evra's injured for a massive game, Fabio's inexperience could cost us. He needs more game time thats for sure, but at this moment of the season we need all the experience available to us!
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Well you can read it both ways surely? We've tended to reinforce in groups if you think about it. Yorke, Stam and the Swedish winger for 1998, Veron and RVN in 2000, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves and Tevez in 2007. So thinking we could make three big buys is not utterly unreasonable.
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Not without selling
 
Red Hand Devil said:
De Rossi's had a problematic couple of years off the pitch, and thats how his form has maybe dipped. His style suits the Prem & i feel that a new start with us would make him shine!

Adam has played very well this year. You're point that its down to his shit team-mates makin him look good, is retarded. There'll be a whole host of clubs after Adam in the Summer - 3 out of the top 4 will most certainly be interested. He's a fine footballer & seems a good chap also!

Of course Cahill's gonna go for big money - he's an excellent CB, and played very well against us last week. £20m will probably be what it takes to get him & after the defensive crisis of the past two seasons, we need a CB of great quality, and no more Wes Brown filling in!

I'm not writing Fabio off, I just think that if Evra's injured for a massive game, Fabio's inexperience could cost us. He needs more game time thats for sure, but at this moment of the season we need all the experience available to us!
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Yeah! City, Arsenal,Chelsea and us will all be after Adam:lol:
And I'm retarded? :rolleyes:

He is a good chap though, you're right about that....let's put in an offer
 
Ekeke said:
Not without selling
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No doubt about it, Gibson is going to get put up for auction, reckon he will get about 6-8 million, Obertan will get 2 million, and Bebe will get us a pack of Skittles.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Yeah! City, Arsenal,Chelsea and us will all be after Adam:lol:
And I'm retarded? :rolleyes:

He is a good chap though, you're right about that....let's put in an offer
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"3 out of the top 4" - United, Arsenal & Spurs... will be chasing Adam in the Summer, Liverpool also!

My guess is you dont rate Adam because he's Scottish?!

So if we put a bid in for him - is Fergie losing the plot?

I'm pretty sure i'll be bumping this thread in the Summer!
 
Ekeke said:
Do we need a better Fletcher or Carrick? Isnt that where Anderson fits in?
What we definitely need is the means to continue to play excellent football when Scholes isnt playing. We can revisit better holding and defensive minded midfielders when we've worked on the 2 or 3 far more important areas of the team and by that time Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson could be playing well enough not to do anything with it.

As I said before, only the most optimistic of fans would believe that we can afford to replace VDS, bring in a proper midfielder to have an impact right away and then Rodwell on top of it. With the way we've been spending in recent years theres no reason to think we'd have that spare cash is there?
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You always want better players - or am I missing the point? Rodwell is a young player, full of energy who may be able to play box to box, as well as being young and English.

Carrick is nearing thirty and will probably end up as a squad player, Fletcher will continue to do what he always does if he's allowed to resume his normal role, while Anderson has yet to reach the levels expected or even put together a convincing run of games in recent memory. United have tried to rely on that midfield this season and have had problems in doing so.

GK is an issue which will be addressed. But apart from that, midfield will be where money will no doubt be spent.

There is no guarantee's they'll bring in three or four players based on recent years, but what is clear is that this is new territory - United haven't needed proven players or major surgery in the last few years because of the quality players they've had, but now in losing VDS and possibly Scholes they'll need to spend.

In the end its all speculation but there seems to be a lot of it around this lad. He's a good young English Player with a lot of potential. Just the sort of player you'd expect United to go for in fact.
 
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