Robin van Persie

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Varun_Utd said:
I dont want to derail the thread further so i'l ask you a simple question as our discussion started with Wenger as a manager.

If you were the owner of a normal club in the PL, say Aston Villa , and you could pick any of the current managers in the league. Who'd be your 1st 3 choices?

Very interested to see who you have as your 2nd pick.

PS- Song and Ramsey are very good players. Ramsey in particular will become a quality player.
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All depends on what the specific clubs wants to (or realistically thinks it's likely to) achieve, for example, at Villa I think Lambert's a really good shout as it is, used to working with a smaller budget and can identify players from the lower leagues, the same with David Moyes.

That doesn't mean I'd want either at United, or Arsenal if I were an Arsenal fan - its horses for courses.

As I've said, clearly Wenger is a very talented manager, that can't be in dispute given what he's achieved. My question is how long do you give him to move the club forward? 10 years? 20 years? a job for life? At what point do the board look at it and consider where they're headed?

In football I believe, you're either moving forward, or moving backward - and Arsenal look to be in the second bracket. To think you're just happy finishing top 4 every year to me is fatal - because if you miss out its difficult to get back in.

My question to you is do you see Arsenal moving forward with Wenger in charge? - or will things just stay the same, him making the board a profit and the club just making top 4 every year. Or will the board bite the bullet at some stage and take a risk that they might end up with a manager who makes a few moe financial demands?
 
My theories based on the last few days

1 Mancini is very interested in Van Persie but does seem ordered to sell a few strikers before he signs a new one. And his careful talk about Van Persie indicates that he might not be so confident about his getting man and we all have seen the talk that RVP prefers Juve and United over City.

2 Arsenal just forked out around £23 million on Podolski and Giroud that are meant as Van Persie's replacements. Once Arsenal get a offer near that amount of money they will sell even to United so I reckon a +20 million offer will seal the deal. Stan Kroenke doesn't give a crap about United being rivals he is a businessman only interested in making/saving money. If Fergie really is interested he needs to act now even though his hands might be tied a bit by Berbatov's 90 000 a week that United very much want gone from the wage bill. 20 million on a 29 year old Van Persie vs spending 15 million on Joe freaking Allen I know which one I prefer.
 
Richter said:
My theories based on the last few days

1 Mancini is very interested in Van Persie but does seem ordered to sell a few strikers before he signs a new one. And his careful talk about Van Persie indicates that he might not be so confident about his getting man and we all have seen the talk that RVP prefers Juve and United over City.

2 Arsenal just forked out around £23 million on Podolski and Giroud that are meant as Van Persie's replacements. Once Arsenal get a offer near that amount of money they will sell even to United so I reckon a +20 million offer will seal the deal. Stan Kroenke doesn't give a crap about United being rivals he is a businessman only interested in making/saving money.
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I agree, though I think both of those have been clear for some time now.
 
Regardless of reports to the contrary, I'll bet that there's no way City won't go all in for him when the time comes. They can bide their time now as they know nothing's going to happen that quickly.
 
Wasn't there some club policy we have in place that means we won't be paying large fees for players over 27/28?

Maybe it was bollocks, but there was a good deal of talk on here about it.
 
Brophs said:
Regardless of reports to the contrary, I'll bet that there's no way City won't go all in for him when the time comes. They can bide their time now as they know nothing's going to happen that quickly.
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Yes it will be very interesting how things turn out. Berbatov had a 160k a week offer from City yet picked United that offered 90k. Nasri seemed to have agreed on joining United but when City offered more money he picked them instead. The question is will RVP go for prestige/heritage or money in the end?
 
Richter said:
Yes it will be very interesting how things turn out. Berbatov had a 160k a week offer from City yet picked United that offered 90k. Nasri seemed to have agreed on joining United but when City offered more money he picked them instead. The question is will RVP go for prestige/heritage or money in the end?
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True, but City were a nobody at that time. Rubbish club with big wages. There was only one thing on offer at the time, nowadays that's not the case. As well as being able to offer the competitions and trophy opportunites that United can, they can also offer the higher wages. The only part missing is the history, which most footballers have little reason to care about unless they're a fan of that particular club.
 
I'd guess he's already agreed terms with each club, to some extent. If City end up being his preferred destination I'd assume his wages will be higher than if he signs for us or Juve. The fact his agent apparently ruled City out to me suggests that's the move he wants, albeit he may want them to pay him a bit more.
 
RedRover said:
All depends on what the specific clubs wants to (or realistically thinks it's likely to) achieve, for example, at Villa I think Lambert's a really good shout as it is, used to working with a smaller budget and can identify players from the lower leagues, the same with David Moyes.

That doesn't mean I'd want either at United, or Arsenal if I were an Arsenal fan - its horses for courses.

As I've said, clearly Wenger is a very talented manager, that can't be in dispute given what he's achieved. My question is how long do you give him to move the club forward? 10 years? 20 years? a job for life? At what point do the board look at it and consider where they're headed?

In football I believe, you're either moving forward, or moving backward - and Arsenal look to be in the second bracket. To think you're just happy finishing top 4 every year to me is fatal - because if you miss out its difficult to get back in.

My question to you is do you see Arsenal moving forward with Wenger in charge? - or will things just stay the same, him making the board a profit and the club just making top 4 every year. Or will the board bite the bullet at some stage and take a risk that they might end up with a manager who makes a few moe financial demands?
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Depends on whether the board is willing to change their wage structure and the way they sign players. If they continue to not pay enough, they'l continue losing their best players. That'd mean not winning things which again would make the best players want to leave. Its a vicious cycle.

Wenger, as i've already said, comes across as stubborn in his ways too. He has to be more flexible with the kind of players he buys and for the amounts he buys them for.

Lastly, i dont think Arsenal will ever sack him. not gonna happen. If they give him money to spend, i doubt he'd decline. If they dont and want to continue without any spending, they wont get a better manager.
 
Maybe Mancini has indeed been ordered to sell before he buys and there has been no sight of movement from current squad strikers as they are happy picking up their current wage with nobody keen to match it.

If that is the case we will be in a strong position with RVP apparently keen to stay in the EPL.
 
Would be great to beat Shitty to a transfer. A player like RvP who maybe value a great club more than money would be a real legend.
 
Acquire Me said:
I think so, because every good player cant be money grabbing whores. So its not just beating Shitty, its proves its more than money for some. In reality Shitty are just a small team who won the lottery.
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Player moves to City for a significant wage hike = money grabbing whore

Player moves to United for a significant wage hike = doing it for the right reasons
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Player moves to City for a significant wage hike = money grabbing whore

Player moves to United for a significant wage hike = doing it for the right reasons
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With the key point being that Nobody offers bigger wages than Coty whereas a move to United over City you would presume he would be turning down bigger wages and therefore money not being the pivotal reason.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Player moves to City for a significant wage hike = money grabbing whore

Player moves to United for a significant wage hike = doing it for the right reasons
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Stop being such a morbid bastard haha.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Player moves to City for a significant wage hike = money grabbing whore

Player moves to United for a significant wage hike = doing it for the right reasons
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Anyone refusing tons of petrodollars to sign with us is doing it for reasons which are beyond money.
 
Pexbo said:
With the key point being that Nobody offers bigger wages than Coty whereas a move to United over City you would presume he would be turning down bigger wages and therefore money not being the pivotal reason.
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Maybe true although if city keep winning things and investing it may get to a point soon where they don't have to offer more or significantly more for players. Players may simply chose them as they're a team who right now can challenge every year.
 
Ash_G said:
Maybe true although if city keep winning things and investing it may get to a point soon where they don't have to offer more or significantly more for players. Players may simply chose them as they're a team who right now can challenge every year.
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Chelsea almost 10 years after the Roman era started and plenty of success still had to offer Hazard a 21 year old player around £170 000 a week +pay his agent 6 million to secure his signing. Chelsea and City still got a long way before they can compete with the old dragons when it comes to signing players without offering the best wages.
 
Yeah the thing is in several years, even if City are winning titles left right and center... Their wage structure will be piled so high that any good player coming in will want parity or more with the other stars there.
 
Great player and person. But sadly for City he is one of a kind in their squad. Take a mere squad player like De Jong for example that refuses to sign a new contract unless his wages top 100 grand a week
 
Zarlak said:
True, but City were a nobody at that time. Rubbish club with big wages. There was only one thing on offer at the time, nowadays that's not the case. As well as being able to offer the competitions and trophy opportunites that United can, they can also offer the higher wages. The only part missing is the history, which most footballers have little reason to care about unless they're a fan of that particular club.
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What's all this I keep reading about City having no history?

Unless "history" now means nothing different from "tons of trophies", they have plenty of history.
 
Everton are one of the big five clubs in England along with Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd and Liverpool. Buying a few trophies doesn't change that.
 
http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/7937911/Juventus-cool-interest-in-RvP

Juventus have played down their interest in Arsenal captain Robin van Persie because of the Gunners' demands.


The Serie A champions have been widely reported to be among the favourites to sign the 28-year-old forward after he declared his intention not to sign a new contract at the Emirates Stadium
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But Juventus director Giuseppe Marotta told Sky Sport Italia he did not see great value in the proposed deal.



"A top player is not only judged by how much he costs," said Marotta.
"It can also mean a player who costs less but on the pitch shows an absolute value.



"Van Persie is a great player but Arsenal do not intend to lose him. And you cannot indulge in a player if the owners don't want (to sell).
"Talk of our real interest in him seems excessive to me."
 
That doesn't sound like cooled interest. Sounds more to me like they're saying that they can't do anything whilst Arsenal insist he's not for sale, hence forcing their hand to admit they have to let him go and therefore lowering his price.
 
Richter said:
Chelsea almost 10 years after the Roman era started and plenty of success still had to offer Hazard a 21 year old player around £170 000 a week +pay his agent 6 million to secure his signing. Chelsea and City still got a long way before they can compete with the old dragons when it comes to signing players without offering the best wages.
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Yeah but Chelsea made plenty of mistakes along the way that cost them success. Also we don't know if hazard would have chosen us had the offers been the same. Either way city can learn from Chelsea's mistakes and easily become a team that is continually challenging without the circus Chelsea have had. if they do that I think a lot of players would chose them without then having to offer massively higher wages. End of the day players want to win things and if they keep winning then players will come.
 
Liam147 said:
Yeah but what makes City's history so illustrious? A good decade 40 years ago? Bouncing through the divisions in the 90s.
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Pedant alert (apologies) but United were the second team in Manchester for a long time, before we found ourselves a rich owner who bought all of City's best players. That might have been a long time ago, but we are talking about history ...
 
Varun_Utd said:
Depends on whether the board is willing to change their wage structure and the way they sign players. If they continue to not pay enough, they'l continue losing their best players. That'd mean not winning things which again would make the best players want to leave. Its a vicious cycle.

Wenger, as i've already said, comes across as stubborn in his ways too. He has to be more flexible with the kind of players he buys and for the amounts he buys them for.

Lastly, i dont think Arsenal will ever sack him. not gonna happen. If they give him money to spend, i doubt he'd decline. If they dont and want to continue without any spending, they wont get a better manager.
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I agree completely.

What I was driving at is that I think something needs to change if they're going to push on.

Spurs have taken an almighty risk in letting Harry go and getting AVB on board who frankly, after Chelsea, seemed to be damaged goods. But he's clearly a good manager, probably better for the experience at Chelsea and will have new ideas. Long term is could be a smart move.

As for Arsenal, Wenger will keep getting them in and around the top four but every year they seem to lose a bit of quality. Be interesting to see what happens if they don't win anything this year, because surely at some stage the fans will start asking questions.
 
acrebo said:
That doesn't sound like cooled interest. Sounds more to me like they're saying that they can't do anything whilst Arsenal insist he's not for sale, hence forcing their hand to admit they have to let him go and therefore lowering his price.
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Juventus is using the same tactics which is becoming a trademark in the Serie A ie We wont be interested unless he's offered to us on cheap. Financially wise Juve can't compete with the Manchester top clubs and they are stressing on the fact that they are not Arsenal's rivals.

It all depends on what Arsenal want. If they want the best deal possible they'll sell to their rivals. If they don't want to strengthen their rivals they'll sell to Juventus. In my opinion, Arsenal will opt for the former. I wont be surprised that at that point, one of the Italian top sides will start circling around Berba, probably offering us a Cadbury family pack bag sweets and some opera tickets in exchange.
 
At the end of the day, Van Persie holds all the cards, not Arsenal, as he can just sit tight, sulk if he's so inclined, get injured as usual, and sign a nice fat pre-contract in January, and pick up his nice signing on fee in the Summer going the Bosman way.

I would be surprised if anybody is going to pay over £15million for someone entering his last year, as they are going to have to fund a very high package as VP will not want to miss out on all of his golden ticket that a Bosman would bring.
 
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