Robin van Persie

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gooDevil said:
Even with all their seemingly thrifty squad sales and salary restrictions Arsenal barely turn a profit, at least last time I checked. I for one think all teams should be run at a profit, and salaries determined appropriately. I applaud Arsenal for resisting what few clubs can, going into debt in the hope that their investment will lead to increased success and revenue.

Let's not forget what happened to Leeds, it can happen to almost anyone.
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Debt is a business decision. But like such decisions, some are good and some are bad.

The leeds example is a classic example of a poor one and ours is a good one. There is always risk..but it needs to bemanaged.

if the cost of getting rid of the debt is a City or Chelsea..no thanks.

I think Arsenal run things the right way.

I think some of their struggles to win trophies must definitely rest with Wenger's coaching too.
 
All gone very quiet which is quite surprising given he'll obviously be leaving for someone in the next few weeks
 
gooDevil said:
Even with all their seemingly thrifty squad sales and salary restrictions Arsenal barely turn a profit, at least last time I checked. I for one think all teams should be run at a profit, and salaries determined appropriately. I applaud Arsenal for resisting what few clubs can, going into debt in the hope that their investment will lead to increased success and revenue.

Let's not forget what happened to Leeds, it can happen to almost anyone.
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Agreed.

Regarding Rvp, I have no huge desire to see us sign him, but if it stops City getting their dirty mitts on him, I'm not opposed.

I wouldn't mind seeing him head off to Italy though.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Had it not been for the sugar daddies, everyone would have to do more or less the same thing. Its not Wenger's fault that City and Chelsea's millions have blinded most when it comes to how a team should operate. He has his flaws, everyone does, but to slag him off for giving young players a chance to flourish is bizarre. If anything, had arsenal just been willing to pay decent wages, most of these players that have left would have stayed on and they'd have a very good team.

Regarding the 2nd paragraph, are you actually criticizing him for not ditching his club to move to a bigger wealthier one? :confused:



Same as Sir Alex then. No one is perfect. Their arrogance to a degree and their belief in their players is what separates them from the rest and make their players play out of their skin.



Again, its the money City and Chelsea have that has changed the entire dynamics of the game. Without them, Arsenal would be our main competitors and challenging for titles every year. Again, its City and Chelsea who are in the wrong for spending so much and literally ruling everyone out of the title race, not arsenal for not following suit. What is he supposed to have done with the squad he has? Does he stand any chance of competing with what City have? Or us? No.

His style and the way he has done brilliant business with kids has put his club in a good state financially and they've been in the top 4 getting revenues and not missing out on anything while not spending anything either. Arsenal fans should be thankful they have him, they'd be in deep shit without the man.

Dont get me wrong, he has his faults. i said so myself in my first post. But to say he's not a great manager or that arsenal fans should be anything but grateful to have him is crazy talk.
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You're jumping to a lot of conclusions. Regardless of what City and Chelsea have one he has, for me, failed to make the right decisions when it counted. A season or two ago they were maybe a keeper, a decent centre half and a holding player away from a league title winning side. A top manager knows when to buy, when to add a player or two - but they didn't take the step, nor even try to, persisting with the likes of Almunia in goal, and Senderos at the back.

The players who have left have left for more money, but they've also gone on and won things.

I don't criiticise giving youth a chance, I do criticise relying on a raft of young players to the detriment of the side - and often persisting with players who seem never to be likely to fulfil their promise to the degree that many expected. Song, Walcott, vela, bendtner, Ramsay, djorou and others. Good players, but probably not going to win anything.

I never said he wasn't a great manager, he was, the teams he built in the past were excellent - now, still one of the best? I'm not so sure anymore.

Things change, the game moves on. As I said if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be asking myself where we were headed, especially if I were paying the highest season ticket price going. I'd be grateful for what he's done, but it wouldn't make me less concerned about where we were going now.

Bottom line, he never seems to take any drastic action, another summer, their captain looking to leave, and the most damning indictment - he seems to want to win things and not just pick up a large pay rise.

I think they'll be top four next year for what it's worth, but I think they could and should be pushing a bit harder.
 
RedRover said:
Things change, the game moves on. As I said if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be asking myself where we were headed, especially if I were paying the highest season ticket price going.
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We have got some very expensive tickets but my season ticket works out at just under £40 a game which is about what all top PL teams charge.
 
Homeomorphic said:
His injury record:



First injury-free season he had in a decade and he wants out. He has no right to publicly question the club's ambitions when the club stood by his side and payed his wages year after year when he used to regularly return from Netherlands friendlies with half a broken leg. This current generation of Dutch players (Robben, Sneijder and the likes) is the most unlikeable I've seen.
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What's wrong with Sneijder? I thought he was alright
 
Ekeke said:
Its a vicious cycle where you are repeatedly punching yourselves in the face and while it was funny at first, it may eventually become hard to watch.
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I don't know though. I keep thinking the same thing. But then you look and they're doing it again, they're punching themselves in the face, staggering about a bit and then falling over. How can you not laugh at that? Its hilarious.
 
Red Dreams said:
Debt is a business decision. But like such decisions, some are good and some are bad.

The leeds example is a classic example of a poor one and ours is a good one. There is always risk..but it needs to bemanaged.

if the cost of getting rid of the debt is a City or Chelsea..no thanks.

I think Arsenal run things the right way.

I think some of their struggles to win trophies must definitely rest with Wenger's coaching too.
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The creation of our debt is completely unrelated to the buying and selling of players. It seems strange that it's even considered the team's debt instead of the Glazer's debt. Seems to me the banks own United and the Glazer's have a rent-to-own agreement with a large balance remaining.

Though there were other times in United's past when we went into debt, if that's not what you meant.
 
RedRover said:
A top manager knows when to buy, when to add a player or two - but they didn't take the step, nor even try to, persisting with the likes of Almunia in goal, and Senderos at the back.
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Wenger seems to entrust his players alot, which is what a player should expect from a manager. The downfall of his policy is that when you aren't winning, you are subject to questioning and by persisting with youth, fans need to 'trust' them.

I think the events after the 07/08 season said more about the direction of Arsenal and Wenger. Sold Flamini and Hleb, could have been Adebayor and Fabregas too and little coming in. A good chunk of the first team gone, which in all honesty could have won the title, had it been not for the consecutive draws in March. Case of one step forward, two back. They seem better prepared if they lose RVP this time round however.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Wenger seems to entrust his players alot, which is what a player should expect from a manager. The downfall of his policy is that when you aren't winning, you are subject to questioning and by persisting with youth, fans need to 'trust' them.

I think the events after the 07/08 season said more about the direction of Arsenal and Wenger. Sold Flamini and Hleb, could have been Adebayor and Fabregas too and little coming in. A good chunk of the first team gone, which in all honesty could have won the title, had it been not for the consecutive draws in March. Case of one step forward, two back. They seem better prepared if they lose RVP this time round however.
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Perhaps. Podolski will be a decent aquisition but he's not been prolific at club level. The French kid looks decent - but so did Chamakh before he signed.

As I've said - no problem with bringing through youth players, but the vast majority of them simply haven't been as good as the players they've replaced. If that's the case there's only one direction you'll travel as a club.

Clearly its not all Wenger's fault - he may not have had fortunes to spend - but even if he had, I'm not sure he would have done, even when neccessary. Its honourable that he's trying to buck the trend of money in football and huge fees and salaries - but its unrealistic. I'm not saying he should spend hundreds of millions, even if available, but to succeed you have to buy proven class now and again in key positions.

What sums it up for me is that he seems to have become a bit of a parody of himself. His constant excuses are tiresome - usually aimed at the likes of Stoke and Blackburn who try to rough his side up. He seems to think everyone should play to Arsenal's style so they can walk all over them - but he forgets about the days when he had Adams, Keown, Vieira, Petit and Ian Wright - all happy to put themselves about and with a shocking disciplinary record.
 
Red Dreams said:
Debt is a business decision. But like such decisions, some are good and some are bad.

The leeds example is a classic example of a poor one and ours is a good one. There is always risk..but it needs to bemanaged.

if the cost of getting rid of the debt is a City or Chelsea..no thanks.

I think Arsenal run things the right way.

I think some of their struggles to win trophies must definitely rest with Wenger's coaching too.
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I despair when I read stuff like this. How in the name of feck is ours a good one? Ridiculous.
 
londonredmaniac said:
I despair when I read stuff like this. How in the name of feck is ours a good one? Ridiculous.
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I think his point was that the Leeds debt was caused by them spending beyond their means - or spending more than they were earning.

Ours is closer to a mortgage - we are not having to pay more than we are earning.
 
The Guardian rumour mill are saying that Juve are turning their attention to Dzeko, freeing up a striker space at City for you-know-who
 
Zarlak said:
They still have Tevez, Balotelli and Aguero. I can't see where VP is going to play. Unless someone is willing to take Tevez, which I can't see happening, and he won't push Aguero out.
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Balotelli and Tevez are timebombs, plus all 3 of those can play on the 'wings'. There's loads of space for RVP.
 
Cina said:
Balotelli and Tevez are timebombs, plus all 3 of those can play on the 'wings'. There's loads of space for RVP.
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They've already got players out on the wings. Just because they can play there doesn't mean they will. Balotelli isn't going anywhere, and however much of a time bomb Tevez is, nobody wants him.

Mancini was quoted as saying 'we have four fantastic strikers that we won the league with last year'
 
I'd say RVP would be second or maybe first choice if he was to move there - of course Shitty would buy him if Dzeko leaves. They really aren't bothered about having expensive backup
 
Worth noting that Galliani hasn't ruled out a move for Tevez and his agent recently said that now might be the right time for a move.

Personally I think Mancini would jump at the chance to offload Tevez and replace him with van Persie, irrespective of anything he may say publicly.
 
swooshboy said:
I think his point was that the Leeds debt was caused by them spending beyond their means - or spending more than they were earning.

Ours is closer to a mortgage - we are not having to pay more than we are earning.
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I see the point he is making in that respect then.

But our debt is far from 'good'.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Worth noting that Galliani hasn't ruled out a move for Tevez and his agent recently said that now might be the right time for a move.

Personally I think Mancini would jump at the chance to offload Tevez and replace him with van Persie, irrespective of anything he may say publicly.
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I could definitely see that happening, but it just depends if anyone wants him or not.
 
Zarlak said:
They've already got players out on the wings. Just because they can play there doesn't mean they will. Balotelli isn't going anywhere, and however much of a time bomb Tevez is, nobody wants him.

Mancini was quoted as saying 'we have four fantastic strikers that we won the league with last year'
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And Fergie said Gibson could be a great player for us, what's your point?

Dzeko isn't good enough and will probably go anyway, and RVP would get playing ahead of Balotelli for sure. There's more room for him at City than there is here.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Worth noting that Galliani hasn't ruled out a move for Tevez and his agent recently said that now might be the right time for a move.

Personally I think Mancini would jump at the chance to offload Tevez and replace him with van Persie, irrespective of anything he may say publicly.
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His public utterances of despair are just to lull opponents into complacency. Did he not say City had no chance to win the league? And did that not catch us on the wrong foot, despite all our so called experience in the finishing stages of the league?

He is just waiting to offload some of his strikers. Once that is done, he will splash the cash, and get his man.
 
Zarlak said:
They still have Tevez, Balotelli and Aguero. I can't see where VP is going to play. Unless someone is willing to take Tevez, which I can't see happening, and he won't push Aguero out.
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And technically Roque Santa Cruz and Adabayor

400k a week of strikers right there
 
Mancini usually mouths off about potential signings so kinda surprised he is keeping quiet about RVP.
 
RedRover said:
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions. Regardless of what City and Chelsea have one he has, for me, failed to make the right decisions when it counted. A season or two ago they were maybe a keeper, a decent centre half and a holding player away from a league title winning side. A top manager knows when to buy, when to add a player or two - but they didn't take the step, nor even try to, persisting with the likes of Almunia in goal, and Senderos at the back.

The players who have left have left for more money, but they've also gone on and won things.

I don't criiticise giving youth a chance, I do criticise relying on a raft of young players to the detriment of the side - and often persisting with players who seem never to be likely to fulfil their promise to the degree that many expected. Song, Walcott, vela, bendtner, Ramsay, djorou and others. Good players, but probably not going to win anything.

I never said he wasn't a great manager, he was, the teams he built in the past were excellent - now, still one of the best? I'm not so sure anymore.

Things change, the game moves on. As I said if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be asking myself where we were headed, especially if I were paying the highest season ticket price going. I'd be grateful for what he's done, but it wouldn't make me less concerned about where we were going now.

Bottom line, he never seems to take any drastic action, another summer, their captain looking to leave, and the most damning indictment - he seems to want to win things and not just pick up a large pay rise.

I think they'll be top four next year for what it's worth, but I think they could and should be pushing a bit harder.
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I dont want to derail the thread further so i'l ask you a simple question as our discussion started with Wenger as a manager.

If you were the owner of a normal club in the PL, say Aston Villa , and you could pick any of the current managers in the league. Who'd be your 1st 3 choices?

Very interested to see who you have as your 2nd pick.

PS- Song and Ramsey are very good players. Ramsey in particular will become a quality player.
 
anver said:
His public utterances of despair are just to lull opponents into complacency.
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"Both Dzeko and Tevez will stay at City," Mancini told Sky Italia. "We are a great team and we try to keep all our great players. It won't be easy but they will stay here.
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To be more specific, I was talking about that.

He is just waiting to offload some of his strikers. Once that is done, he will splash the cash, and get his man.
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Assuming he wants to go there.
 
Zarlak said:
They still have Tevez, Balotelli and Aguero. I can't see where VP is going to play. Unless someone is willing to take Tevez, which I can't see happening, and he won't push Aguero out.
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He can play as a lone striker or as one of the three behind, as can Tevez, Aguero and Balotelli who have all played deeper this season e.g Balotelli against us, Aguero against Norwich etc. So he will certainly get games.

I'd play him as the lone striker with three of Silva, Aguero, Nasri, Balotelli and Tevez behind. For example,

--Silva-- Aguero-- Balotelli
-------Van Persie---

Could quite easily become,

Nasri-- Tevez -- Aguero
----- Balotelli ----

There is definitely room for all of them, he is just effectivly taking the striker role from Dzeko.
 
Cina said:
And Fergie said Gibson could be a great player for us, what's your point?

Dzeko isn't good enough and will probably go anyway, and RVP would get playing ahead of Balotelli for sure. There's more room for him at City than there is here.
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Perhaps - at the moment - but still - Aguero, Balotelli, Tevez, Dzeko, Santa Cruz, Nari, Silva, Adeyayor is a lot of strikers.

A couple of matches where you don't score/indifferent form and you go the Santa Cruz way - where you get lots of money for no playing time. May not be so attractive to some players.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Mancini usually mouths off about potential signings so kinda surprised he is keeping quiet about RVP.
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I don't remember him talking about Hazard and there's quotes from him to Italian media where he downplayed speculation linking them to Thiago Silva. Mancini has been very quiet so far this window apart from to say that he wants his main four strikers to stay and probably isn't that happy that they've not done any business.

Here are some quotes from him a month or two ago:

When asked on whether his team can challenge United for the title, Mancini said, "Why not? But it is important we have all the new players in position for pre-season. Last year we had some players join five days before the start of the campaign, which did not help us. That is why we want to do business early this summer."
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They've not done business early and seem to be struggling offloading players due to their high wages - I thought that Adebayor would have left by now and it seems that he's the stumbling block in City's pursuit of RVP. They want rid of him first to try and help them meet FFP. They'd still probably need to offload the likes of Santa Cruz, Kolo Toure and Bridge which will be a problem with the high wages they're on. Bridge is probably one of the biggest problems and I see they've let him go on loan to Brighton (I assume City will be paying some of his wages) and he'll most likely eventually be released.

Really, City don't need to make many signings. Perhaps a centre back and another creative winger or some sort of central midfielder. If Mancini wants to keep the four strikers he has which it seems that he does, some of them will score plenty of goals so it would be better for them to concentrate on other areas even though RVP would be a marquee signing.
 
City have been very quiet in the market, probably a league win has satisfied Sheikhs and they now want to keep the team stable while not investint huge sums. They probably have to contribute several million a year towards wages so they'll still generate huge cost but now they can get by without the part where they spend £25m on a random player and hope he turns out decent.
 
"For this question, speak to the man in charge," Mancini told reporters at a press conference in the Chinese capital.

"I am not in charge of this.

"It is important [to get players quickly] because, after what we did last year, we must continue to win.

"This year will be harder than last so we need to improve our team.

"We have a man who works for this and we hope that they can do a good job."

Mancini has previously made his admiration for Van Persie well known.

However, aware he will be facing Arsene Wenger tomorrow, the Italian opted to tread a delicate path.

"Van Persie is an Arsenal player, not our player," he said.

"He is a fantastic player, but we have four strikers and with those strikers we won the title last year.

"Van Persie is a fantastic player, but he is an Arsenal player."
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I think we can put to bed the theory that Mancini may not be interested now.
 
Sarni said:
City have been very quiet in the market, probably a league win has satisfied Sheikhs and they now want to keep the team stable while not investint huge sums. They probably have to contribute several million a year towards wages so they'll still generate huge cost but now they can get by without the part where they spend £25m on a random player and hope he turns out decent.
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Either that or they realize that with the FFP rules they are most likely screwed (note I haven't looked at their numbers at all)
 
I think those Mancini quotes suggest that he doesn't like having to sell before buying; he's impatient to pursue RVP but might well be too late.
 
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