[Gerald G]

Di Maria is our best player by a country mile. Not sure why it's even being discussed. RvP is talented and will get you goals but he can perform much better. I have no excuses for him, not lacking fitness or any of this nonsense. Sadly I think he's declining. What annoys me about him now is that he just looks lethargic. He will score one goal but miss a couple other chances and not make much of an impact in the game.

I'm not the type of person that believes because a player has scored in a game it means he's played well, similarly I don't believe that if an attacker doesn't score it means he's performed badly. He's been relatively poor this and last year for Moyes even though his goal record doesn't look too shabby. If it was up to me I would drop him but Van Gaal likes him it seems. He's still got good movement and all and can still finish chances well but he is missing too many chances and becoming anonymous in some games even if he scores.

Madrid away in the Champions League 2 seasons back, I thought he was excellent. Even though he didn't score his overall game was really brilliant in my opinion. But now, I've seen it a few times, when we try and attack with pace he gets the ball and slows the play down then the counter attack is ruined. I hope he improves and it's just bad form but I don't think so.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Thought it was probably the best I've seen him play this season. Although that's faint praise, unfortunately.

Really? I thought it was one of his worst performances.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Nah my favourite player is Rooney, for a variety of reasons, a few of them quite subjective, but I don't think he's the most talented.

I think Di Maria is head and shoulders above all those we have at the moment, but that's also cos I believe he's amongst the three best players in the world, full stop. 'Talented' is a tricky one though, cos does that mean just potential talent notwithstanding form (in which case you could make a case about Berbatov being one of the most 'talented' players around?), or current best? I mean I think RvP is immensely talented at his best, but I don't feel he's been performing that well for a while (our opinions differ on the WC and last season in that respect), so his innate talent from my point of view isn't that important, and I'm just wondering whether it's a decline we're witnessing or whether he's going to pick it up and get back to his best, of course wishing strongly for that to happen.

Well I guess with the Cafe's obsession for raw pace and speed and all, seing an 38 year old Totti who's slow as feck scoring a perfect goal vs. City gives me a lot of hope regarding RVP's future.

Talent is very tricky indeed, very interesting subject though. I remember when Wayne was 16 and he scored that goal against Arsenal, I remember him being on fire at Euro 2004. His debut for us, he scored a great goal in a Champions League final for us. He scored 27 league goals for us playing as #10/Second striker mostly. He's had so many brilliant performances, scored an insane amount of goals and did so many incredible things to help us win titles. Go and compare that to Di Maria, who is only 2 years and 4 months younger than Rooney. I'd say it would be very unfair to say that Rooney has (showed) less talent than Di Maria. But then again, with the way our Angel is playing at the moment I can see why people would consider him the most talented. Guess it will always be a matter of preference, that's why it's so interesting.

 

[Kostur]

Come to think about it, and it's a bit RVP connected, do we have any player that was immensely shit ( 90% of the squad if not more ) under Moyes last season and kicked off well this season?

So far in games we've played, our best players were either the newcommers ( Herrera, ADM ), youth that's playing their first season for senior team or players who are in the '10%' - Rooney, Rafael and DDG.

Not that I'm trying to defend RVP here by the way, just wanted to compare him to somebody who was bad and kicked off fantastically this season yet I couldn't find a single player.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Come to think about it, and it's a bit RVP connected, do we have any player that was immensely shit ( 90% of the squad if not more ) under Moyes last season and kicked off well this season?

So far in games we've played, our best players were either the newcommers ( Herrera, ADM ), youth that's playing their first season for senior team or players who are in the '10%' - Rooney, Rafael and DDG.

Not that I'm trying to defend RVP here by the way, just wanted to compare him to somebody who was bad and kicked off fantastically this season yet I couldn't find a single player.

It's an interesting question actually.

Phil Jones? He was fairly poor last season but very good in the opening games of this one.

 

[Kostur]

It's an interesting question actually.

Phil Jones? He was fairly poor last season but very good in the opening games of this one.

Not sure really, he always seems the same to me - weird positioning, great at last ditch tackles, done that 2 seasons ago, season ago and now. Difference is now that he's played constantly at CB and he's not thrown around RB, CB, CDM which is definitely helping him out.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not the thread for a Phil Jones discussion but IMO he's looked a lot better this season than last. Playing in his preferred position will obviously help but he's put some poor performances in at CB in the past too, especially last season.

 

[predator]

God I hate this place at times. I know loyalty is fleeting in football but it's horrible to hear our fans being hyper critical over a player who has done wonders for us in his short time at the club. Why can't we just get behind players who aren't at their very best for a change. I love RVP and love what he did for us in 2012-13 (singlehandedly won us #20). He hasn't found that top form again this season (which striker has) but I will support him until it genuinely needs addressing. He is a big character for us, a leader, has balls and is very clever on the ball. Just give him time like how we are giving Falcao time to adjust.

 

[Sam]

I think the reason Falcao keeps coming off rather then RVP is because we're being very cautions with managing his comeback. Both of them visibly tire after 60/70 minutes, but bringing Falcao off makes more sense considering his injury. I don't think its favoritism, not yet anyway.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Very difficult for him, and Falcao, in this tactic. He covers too many spaces when defending, and considering that we defended too much the last two games, he wasn’t very good. The tactic is simple, when we lose the ball, the front 3 RVp left, Mata central and Falcao right, are forming a defensive 3 man line upfront. But when we have the ball RVP must be in the box,


RVP, like Falcao, should play in the box, as a real 9 like he did his first year, leading the front and be closer to the defense. He’s not, not anymore, the kind of player who will run 11Km per game chasing opponents. I know that the diamond formation is made to play the stars together, but I don’t think that he’s used the best way, nor Falcao, nor Wazza, not Mata.

 

[Speak]

Come to think about it, and it's a bit RVP connected, do we have any player that was immensely shit ( 90% of the squad if not more ) under Moyes last season and kicked off well this season?

So far in games we've played, our best players were either the newcommers ( Herrera, ADM ), youth that's playing their first season for senior team or players who are in the '10%' - Rooney, Rafael and DDG.

Not that I'm trying to defend RVP here by the way, just wanted to compare him to somebody who was bad and kicked off fantastically this season yet I couldn't find a single player.

How many are actually here?
Two starters on Sunday actually started van Gaal's first game, let alone started Moyes' last game.

 

[Kostur]

How many are actually here?
Two starters on Sunday actually started van Gaal's first game, let alone started Moyes' last game.

Jones, Smalling, Evans, RVP, Valencia, Young, Ando, Fletcher and Fellaini. Carrick has not played yet. It's really hard to say if any single one of them is doing better than last season at the moment ( bar those question marks above Jones' head that Pogue mentioned ). I intentionally skipped trio of Rafael, Rooney and DDG as they've done 'ok-ish' last season.

Not to mention that Kagawa and Cleverley were 'not working under Moyes' and were touted to be 'LVG players' just to get sold in the end. Not the thread for it though, just a small digression from me.

 

[NoPace]

This was on Reddit today: http://imgur.com/a/AgLhy

I'd disregard this season, as it just started, but it does suggest that he's aging pretty normally for a top striker, rather than in some freakish Totti manner. He's still wonderful on the ball, but he seems to be having more trouble getting open than he used to.

I still think he'd score a high number of goals as a 9 up front on a good team, but with Rooney and Falcao here and younger, we're really not a great fit anymore for him or vice-versa, I don't think. For example, if he was at Arsenal or Spurs, you'd back him to hit 20 assuming he was the penalty taker, right?

Not being unloyal. He's been a great player and he won us the league, but I'm starting to think he will be coming off the bench a lot for us once Rooney is back. Still a crucial role, but one he might not like.

 

[DWelbz19]

If this continues all season, I will be very disappointed if van Gaal to let him be moved on. Some will say he has been fine, but he simply hasn't, he has been more of a hindrance. 2 goals in 6 starts isn't good enough for this club.

 

[ZDwyr]

The more I see/read about him the more I am thinking he's declining at a decent rate. I wish we had kept Welbeck because RvP will possibly be finished as a starter very soon.

 

[caisenma]

This was on Reddit today: http://imgur.com/a/AgLhy

I'd disregard this season, as it just started, but it does suggest that he's aging pretty normally for a top striker, rather than in some freakish Totti manner. He's still wonderful on the ball, but he seems to be having more trouble getting open than he used to.

I still think he'd score a high number of goals as a 9 up front on a good team, but with Rooney and Falcao here and younger, we're really not a great fit anymore for him or vice-versa, I don't think. For example, if he was at Arsenal or Spurs, you'd back him to hit 20 assuming he was the penalty taker, right?

Not being unloyal. He's been a great player and he won us the league, but I'm starting to think he will be coming off the bench a lot for us once Rooney is back. Still a crucial role, but one he might not like.

Wow, thanks for posting that. Thats a pretty steep decline since his pinnacle. Just shows how amazing he was if he's still actually pretty good compared to most other players standards.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Wow, actually? His goal record for us is phenomenal already. I think we're just being critical of people on here lately because its what we've gotten used to over the past year. RvP has been good and to say we need to move him on or he's not at the quality we require anymore is just far from the truth. He's probably the best striker in the league on form. He isn't at his very best but his contribution is still above average and he deserves to be in the team most games.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Why can't we just get behind players who aren't at their very best for a change.

Just give him time like how we are giving Falcao time to adjust.

The reasons people are struggling to get behind him is because it pretty much feels like we are playing with 10 men for all RVP has contributed this season also it's hard to get behind him when he is effectively keeping mata out of the team too. The only reason mata is on the bench is because van gaal hasn't got the balls to drop RVP. When RVP plays mata misses out as Rooney then has to play 10 role which he certainly isn't better than mata at.

Rooney-Falcao
Mata

I'm pretty certain That's what every United fan wants to see and that should be our first choice front 3.

Also he doesn't need time, he hasn't just joined our club and isnt in a settling in period like Falcao is, the guy has been here awhile now plus he has the bonus of having a manager that he knows basically like a father, he's worked with him in the past for holland so he knows all about van gaal so where is this give him time coming from?

There's simply no excuse for his average start to the season. He needs a spell on the bench if he wants a place he should fight for it.

 

[Witchking]

The reasons people are struggling to get behind him is because it pretty much feels like we are playing with 10 men for all RVP has contributed this season also it's hard to get behind him when he is effectively keeping mata out of the team too. The only reason mata is on the bench is because van gaal hasn't got the balls to drop RVP. When RVP plays mata misses out as Rooney then has to play 10 role which he certainly isn't better than mata at.

Rooney-Falcao
Mata

I'm pretty certain That's what every United fan wants to see and that should be our first choice front 3.

Also he doesn't need time, he hasn't just joined our club and isnt in a settling in period like Falcao is, the guy has been here awhile now plus he has the bonus of having a manager that he knows basically like a father, he's worked with him in the past for holland so he knows all about van gaal so where is this give him time coming from?

There's simply no excuse for his average start to the season. He needs a spell on the bench if he wants a place he should fight for it.

Why do you think, just because he is from the premier league, he is already settled, he has a father figure in van gaal that he can't go out of form or have bad games? Why should he sit on the bench when Rooney gets to play in spite of having a pathetic first touch and has spurts where he needs games to get back in form?

In his 10 years at United, Rooney himself has had stinkers of games, bad games, pathetic games as well as games where he has shone in an excellent way.

So if he gets to play even if he is out of form then Van Persie should be afforded the same privilege. United are playing well and Van Persie just won the game for United against West Ham inspite of playing badly.

Benching him is not help Van Gaal. Playing him and helping him get back in form will surely do.

Rooney should be competing with Mata for the no 10 spot and if Mata is better than him and tough luck for Rooney. He can be benched

 

[itso 7]

Di Maria is our best player by a country mile. Not sure why it's even being discussed. RvP is talented and will get you goals but he can perform much better. I have no excuses for him, not lacking fitness or any of this nonsense. Sadly I think he's declining. What annoys me about him now is that he just looks lethargic. He will score one goal but miss a couple other chances and not make much of an impact in the game.

I'm not the type of person that believes because a player has scored in a game it means he's played well, similarly I don't believe that if an attacker doesn't score it means he's performed badly. He's been relatively poor this and last year for Moyes even though his goal record doesn't look too shabby. If it was up to me I would drop him but Van Gaal likes him it seems. He's still got good movement and all and can still finish chances well but he is missing too many chances and becoming anonymous in some games even if he scores.

Madrid away in the Champions League 2 seasons back, I thought he was excellent. Even though he didn't score his overall game was really brilliant in my opinion. But now, I've seen it a few times, when we try and attack with pace he gets the ball and slows the play down then the counter attack is ruined. I hope he improves and it's just bad form but I don't think so.

Definitely, a player can score the one goal in a match but still miss a couple of chances or feck up a few great moves, like he is doing these days, he won't be said to have played well. Given the state of our defense - inexperience and currently ravaged by injuries - we need our attack to be on top of it's game and put games out of sight damaging the opposition's morale. We could and should have gone to half time leading by three or four goals (he is not solely to blame for that) and from Everton's perspective it would have been game over.
Van Persie's form is starting to concern me and moreso the fact that he seems immune to spending time on the bench. If it continues you wonder how long it will be before the rest of the squad notices and if it won't be a source of conflict in the not too distant future.

 

[daniel9988]

He's a pretty good striker though.

 

[Nighteyes]

Van Persie missing easy chances is not something new you know? He has a history of missing sitters even in his brief career with us so I am not sure why people are pointing it out now.

His poor form has been exaggerated.

 

[Cassidy]

He'll score against Chelsea and you guys will all love him again, fickle as feck

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

The reasons people are struggling to get behind him is because it pretty much feels like we are playing with 10 men for all RVP has contributed this season also it's hard to get behind him when he is effectively keeping mata out of the team too. The only reason mata is on the bench is because van gaal hasn't got the balls to drop RVP. When RVP plays mata misses out as Rooney then has to play 10 role which he certainly isn't better than mata at.

Rooney has been in better form than Van Persie so far, but I don't see what Mata or Falcao have done to deserve playing instead of Van Persie. Falcao hasn't been clinical to put it mildly, and Mata has shown a lack of ideas. Your statement that LvG hasn't got the balls to drop him is just dumb. LvG has dropped important players before and has even dropped Van Persie in favour of Huntelaar, not even a top player.

Rooney-Falcao
Mata

I'm pretty certain That's what every United fan wants to see and that should be our first choice front 3.

What fans want to see and what should be done are generally two different things.

 

[Kag]

What fans want to see and what should be done are generally two different things.

And in this case what the supporters want to see happen is exactly what we should see happen. Robin is slowing our play down quite considerably and doesn't appear dynamic enough to partner another centre forward.

You rightly point out that Rooney is in the best form, and for me, Falcao looks to offer that bit more dynamism. The Mata, Rooney, Falcao trio is more balanced, allowing each of the three players to play in their best positions.

 

[Chaky_Best]

The fact about RVP is that he’s not creating as many chances as he could or he should. To me there are three reasons to that:


- The tactics doesn’t suit him as we’re playing to deep for him. He’s not the type of N9 who loves coming from deep like Benzema, Aguero etc. I think I is much much more efficient when the team plays higher on the pitch and when he’s found in the box. Moyes’s game was based on weak wingers, weak midfielders and he wasn’t well served. This year we seems to play again too deep, and the diamond formation force him to defend far from his favorite zone, so that’s why I think he’s not good enough this year


- I really think that he begins to tired a little. 3 years ago he could beat a man and place a terrific shot (cf his goal against us at Emirates). This year I can’t see him winning a duel, and scoring outside the box. It’s not his flair that lack, but more a physical state IMO.


- Last point, I think that the team doesn’t play for him. We’re more focused on Di Maria and maybe Wazza as the two playmakers, but with them and another striker, RVP is not the main target… He will have less important ball to play and less situation


The question is that 12 month ago; we could all imagine RVP as the main weapon to win us the league. Is it disbelief from us or in just that he’s lost his level? I would think that he’s not on his better position and his better form to fire us to the title, and once again, I like the diamond formation against weaker teams (to score and accommodate our superstar) but in big games, we really should go for 4-3-3 and play either RVP or Falcao to balance the team much more, which will benefit them for sure

 

[Escobar]

2 questions for me: is he not fully fit / out of form or declining, and would LvG drop him or not (especially after making him captain last weekend)

 

[ninety]

The more I see/read about him the more I am thinking he's declining at a decent rate. I wish we had kept Welbeck because RvP will possibly be finished as a starter very soon.

We aren't even a quarter of the way through the season. Have some faith! The service he got last season was atrocious. It continually amazes me how quickly people right off players on here.

 

[ZDwyr]

We aren't even a quarter of the way through the season. Have some faith! The service he got last season was atrocious. It continually amazes me how quickly people right off players on here.

He's got better players behind him this season though. And whilst he's scored that isn't my main concern. His all round performances haven't been good for a while, for us last season, this season and the Dutch NT.

 

[SmashedHombre]

The reasons people are struggling to get behind him is because it pretty much feels like we are playing with 10 men for all RVP has contributed this season also it's hard to get behind him when he is effectively keeping mata out of the team too. The only reason mata is on the bench is because van gaal hasn't got the balls to drop RVP. When RVP plays mata misses out as Rooney then has to play 10 role which he certainly isn't better than mata at.

Rooney-Falcao
Mata

I'm pretty certain That's what every United fan wants to see and that should be our first choice front 3.

Also he doesn't need time, he hasn't just joined our club and isnt in a settling in period like Falcao is, the guy has been here awhile now plus he has the bonus of having a manager that he knows basically like a father, he's worked with him in the past for holland so he knows all about van gaal so where is this give him time coming from?

There's simply no excuse for his average start to the season. He needs a spell on the bench if he wants a place he should fight for it.

Every player in the world has average spells. It doesn't really need an excuse, it's just football. I don't want to see RvP dropped tbh, he's quality and is as capable as any player in the league to produce a moment of jaw-dropping magic from nothing. I love having that in the team. But I trust in van Gaal to make the right call either way.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Every player in the world has average spells. It doesn't really need an excuse, it's just football. I don't want to see RvP dropped tbh, he's quality and is as capable as any player in the league to produce a moment of jaw-dropping magic from nothing. I love having that in the team. But I trust in van Gaal to make the right call either way.

I'd go so far as to say that at his peak he was more capable than almost anyone in world football of a moment of magic from nowhere. His volleys and ridiculous flicks, out of this world. So many of his goals for us in 2012/13 were basically out of nothing, which is why you appreciate them even more, because that wreck of a team created shit all chances for him a lot of the time. You don't really get that sense of being able to do that out of nothing these days though. Hopefully it's just a poor spell and we'll see some goals like that again.

 

[Chaky_Best]

I'd go so far as to say that at his peak he was more capable than almost anyone in world football of a moment of magic from nowhere. His volleys and ridiculous flicks, out of this world. So many of his goals for us in 2012/13 were basically out of nothing, which is why you appreciate them even more, because that wreck of a team created shit all chances for him a lot of the time. You don't really get that sense of being able to do that out of nothing these days though. Hopefully it's just a poor spell and we'll see some goals like that again.

+1 mate

His volley against Villa, or injury time equalizer at West Ham in Cup... His free kick at City, his goal against N'castle reaching 3-3, his late goal against Sotton .... That's why he was magic his first year and what we miss so much, a man who can change an average result in a good one

Remember also that during his poor spell his frist year (until that penalty at Stoke) he was awfull because his hip injury that time. He's very fragile, and it seems that he build his fitness very very very slowly.... He needs game time to produce this magic.... But do we have time ?

 

[united_99]

He has not turned into a bad player over the last few months. And he has not been that bad this season either, just nowhere as good as he actually is.

Maybe LvG wants him to play himself into top form until we play the big boys as he knows how brilliant and devastating an in form RvP can be.

It must be something like this because I can't think of any other reason. Not having the balls to drop him just doesn't make sense. He subbed him off when he was his captain at the WC, so why would he not do it here? I doubt RvP would moan instantly, and even if he did, so what? I doubt RvP has so much influence in the dressing room that everyone would take his side.

It can only be that LvG thinks he will reach his best form sooner rather than later.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

He's got better players behind him this season though. And whilst he's scored that isn't my main concern. His all round performances haven't been good for a while, for us last season, this season and the Dutch NT.

6 games in....new manager...new system and an unsettled side....and people are writing off a player with 50 goals in 80 odd starts for us.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Why should he sit on the bench when Rooney gets to play in spite of having a pathetic first touch and has spurts where he needs games to get back in form

Benching him is not help Van Gaal. Playing him and helping him get back in form will surely do.

Rooney should be competing with Mata for the no 10 spot and if Mata is better than him and tough luck for Rooney. He can be benched

I know Rooney is no saint and has bad games but even when Rooney plays bad he still offers more than RVP currently does especially defensively which is one of our weaker points currently. I agree with van gaal when he says Rooney is undroppable, Falcao needs game time to get match fitness and more settled in and he's getting better each game.

As for mata being dropped then that's unacceptable considering he's scored 9 goals and assisted 5 since he joined us remember under Moyes he played out of position too. Whenever he plays 10 he generally plays well.

For the best balance and most effective frontline then we need Rooney - Falcao with mata behind, that means RVP will be benched and then we'll see how committed he is to getting back in the first 11.

 

[legball]

Why are many of you so desperate for him to be benched/dropped? Falcao hasn't really set the world alight and is still building up his fitness, Rooney won't play #9 very often under LVG and RVP has not been as terrible as most on here are making him out to be. The way it's going now, he'll score a hattrick and still be criticized. He's out of form for HIS standards, and it has nothing to do with him "not being arsed". Play him into form, he has earned the credit.

 

[kouroux]

I think he's just getting older and his overall is slowly and logically decreasing.

 

[acnumber9]

I know Rooney is no saint and has bad games but even when Rooney plays bad he still offers more than RVP currently does especially defensively which is one of our weaker points currently. I agree with van gaal when he says Rooney is undroppable, Falcao needs game time to get match fitness and more settled in and he's getting better each game.

As for mata being dropped then that's unacceptable considering he's scored 9 goals and assisted 5 since he joined us remember under Moyes he played out of position too. Whenever he plays 10 he generally plays well.

For the best balance and most effective frontline then we need Rooney - Falcao with mata behind, that means RVP will be benched and then we'll see how committed he is to getting back in the first 11.

Apart from all but one game so far this season. If we're going to be picking a player based on how many goals he's scored for Utd then it will be Van Persie playing not Mata.

 

[caisenma]

God I hate this place at times. I know loyalty is fleeting in football but it's horrible to hear our fans being hyper critical over a player who has done wonders for us in his short time at the club. Why can't we just get behind players who aren't at their very best for a change. I love RVP and love what he did for us in 2012-13 (singlehandedly won us #20). He hasn't found that top form again this season (which striker has) but I will support him until it genuinely needs addressing. He is a big character for us, a leader, has balls and is very clever on the ball. Just give him time like how we are giving Falcao time to adjust.

I agree with your sentiment, but when there are players not getting a look in who deserve a shot, that's when the frustration kicks in.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think he's just getting older and his overall is slowly and logically decreasing.

When we signed him I convinced myself that all the injuries in the early part of his career might mean he's got a lower mileage than most players his age, so would maintain the same level of performance well into his 30s. Of course, it's also possible that the exact opposite is the case. Endless rehab can be bloody hard work.