Are you suggesting that united fans are as stupid as the Dutch people and as spiteful as the Dutch press?
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How so?
Falcao has been significantly better than RVP, they have similar stats but in the hold up/build up, Falcao has been much better.
Mata wasn't THAT good last season and RVP wasn't THAT bad.
RVP scored vitally important goals last season and had a better scoring rate than the previous season.
Mata scored a few goals but his performances were also not that good, especially when stuck out on the left, played a few very good games after Moyes left.
Now to this season, Mata hasn't done much and neither has RVP, both have a few goals and been involved in play that has lead to goals and chances.
I don't really see how anyone can say Mata has been better, that's not me saying RVP has been better either btw. They have both been a bit meh IMO
Yeah, he does.
And we could manage to get by with Berbatov because he still had that ability/desire to link up and make runs off other people. He enjoyed creating goals as much as scoring them.
van Persie's got Berbatov's static 'ball to my feet' nature, but he's not even looking to get close to people and link up. He's not showing the same inventiveness in his play.
He's just making his own runs and playing like a solo striker.
No I'm not.You must be joking, surely...
You have a bit of a contradiction there, you say he has a static 'ball to my feet' nature, then go on to say he is making his own runs like a solo striker.
Anyway that's a mute point. He has not been playing particularly well, but the forward line is going to need time to gel, none of them are playing particularly well. Rooney is the only player playing above average out of the 3/4 IMO, however we are still creating chances and scoring goals.
He is actually linking up with others too, he has linked up with the right sided players on a couple of occasions, one infact ended up in the creation of the first goal against west ham, he also had some good link up play with Falcao in the QPR game.
I think some of us fans just need a little patience to be honest.
His runs are exclusively coming short to receive it to feet, or running into the box to finish a ball played into him.
That's not even a major issue. It's the fact that he doesn't turn or go forward when he receives it, he slows play down, he doesn't seem interested in doing much other than laying it off and getting into the box for a finish.
Few attempts to play with any inventiveness between the lines, or create for anyone else, which could at least be said of Berbatov.
And that's not such a big deal.. as a solo striker.
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I definitely see your point but would argue RVP's meh has been consistently worse than Mata's. Bar the Olympiakos game RVP has just been consistently poor since the start of the year, whereas at least Mata has had a number of very good performances (after a shocking start).
Not really. Mata was our best player from February until the end of the season and has outperformed Van Persie so far this season, albeit that isn't saying much. Both should be playing a lot better, however Van Persie is the one playing games every week.
I watched a bit of the Netherlands last night and Robin's game is extremely worrying. He slows everything down; the direct opposite of the way our others attackers are inclined to play.
His runs are not always into the box or short, he is actually making a number of runs down the right hand channel, receiving the ball and then getting the ride sided players into the game (seems to be a specific tactic with Falcao doing the same down the left)
I've seen him this season take the ball and drive forward into the box, once he should have had one a penalty (I think against Sunderland).
Don't get me wrong I don't believe he has been playing well and should be playing better, but I find the micro criticism of his game a bit too much, especially when people are saying he isn't doing certain things he is actually doing.
I really don't see this to be honest.
Agree 100%
You must be joking, surely...
Have you even watched our games?
Falcao is new to our team so has had to have a settling in period but he has surpassed RVP this year already in terms of performances. We might aswell be playing with a man down up front for all RVP has done for us this year Falcao has offered way more to the team in terms of hold up play and actually dropping deep to help out. RVP just hovers up the pitch getting offside all the time. Plus he is selfish when he does get the ball.
Apart from that 1st season RVP where he was on fire he hasn't performed consistently well for ages now.
Not at all, you're words not mine. I'm saying many Dutch and many utd fans know RVP can't do a job anymore like he used to. Simple as.
Looks to me that it's you the one who didn't watch the games. Falcao was shit every game except West Ham, even there RVP was better. About his hold up play... don't make me laugh.
Surely there is a lot more to come from him, but to suggest he was good so far is just ridiculous. Same shit applies to RVP, I'm not saying he performed better, but to suggest that Falcao should be ahead of him on performance related reasons it's just stupid because he didn't really show anything so far.
Grumbling about RvP, grumbling about Rooney, grumbling about Falcao, grumbling about Mata . . .
We're like an old man with two parma hams under his arms, who's crying because he hasn't got any bread (© The Sopranos).
We're like an old man with two parma hams under his arms, who's crying because he hasn't got any bread (© The Sopranos).
If his performances don't pick up soon then he will have to be benched. We have gotten by well enough against average sides but if he is still poor against Chelsea and City then we'll lose. Can't afford to carry anyone in those matches.
I would be very surprised to see us start two forwards against Chelsea and City - especially the former - irrespective of the players form. If van Persie continues to disappoint against West Brom and then start alongside Falcao against Chelsea than van Gaal will indisputably be showing unwarranted preferential treatment toward RvP. Fair enough if he want to build his match fitness, sharpness and form in the games so far, but there comes a time when a player simply has to be benched despite his reputation.
van Persie still shows his quality up front as he still scores goals for us. However, his all-round play has worsened as he's becoming less physically capable to play a freer forward role. Sure, Falcao's done a better job than van Persie has in holding up the ball and in linking up with teammates, but playing in this role has only gotten him 1 goal.
Still, though, van Persie can score goals for us in just about any situation (of course, until he stops scoring goals in the 2nd half of the season), so he can be relied upon to bring us goals even when we're not performing that well. However, his all-round play has deteriorated, and since we're not playing with a capable right-wing player in our team, van Persie's not going to be as effective, and this will affect Falcao's performance up front along with making us heavily rely on Rafael for width on the right side.
I still believe van Persie can regain that sharpness that made him so good in the 2012/13 season. However, at this moment, it doesn't seem to be the case, and I don't have so much hope of him regaining it against West Brom.
Still, though, van Persie can score goals for us in just about any situation (of course, until he stops scoring goals in the 2nd half of the season), so he can be relied upon to bring us goals even when we're not performing that well. However, his all-round play has deteriorated, and since we're not playing with a capable right-wing player in our team, van Persie's not going to be as effective, and this will affect Falcao's performance up front along with making us heavily rely on Rafael for width on the right side.
I still believe van Persie can regain that sharpness that made him so good in the 2012/13 season. However, at this moment, it doesn't seem to be the case, and I don't have so much hope of him regaining it against West Brom.
It's funny everyone is moaning about Falcao, Rooney, RVP and Mata, yet we are still scoring goals. Even with di Maria having an off day against West Ham we scored twice and might have scored more had Rooney not been sent off. They are linking well, making good movement and holding the ball well. We know they can do better though, and they will. All this concern though, is very over the top. If we stop scoring goals, then we should really be worried.
Hey, don't call me stupid!
@dannyrhinos89 is right though. Really a lot of Dutch people want RVP out to make room for Huntelaar. They are saying this since before WC of 2010 started and even when RVP was a class above any other striker in England they still wanted Huntelaar to start because he has a better average (despite RVP being the national topscorer). Some people even claim that with Huntelaar the Netherlands would have won the WC of 2010 and 2014
RVP is disliked by many Dutch people, he had an attitude problem while playing at Feyenoord. He left the Dutch league early, he talks with a dutch/moraccan accent and he made a hand gesture against Huntelaar during the game against Kazachstan. He also refused to talk the the media several times.
It's a bit like Seedorf.. he was also disliked but after he 'retired' from international football people started to appreciate him. Personally i don't rate Huntelaar that much so i hope RVP keeps playing for the national team but he does need to improve.
Hey, don't call me stupid!
@dannyrhinos89 is right though. Really a lot of Dutch people want RVP out to make room for Huntelaar. They are saying this since before WC of 2010 started and even when RVP was a class above any other striker in England they still wanted Huntelaar to start because he has a better average (despite RVP being the national topscorer). Some people even claim that with Huntelaar the Netherlands would have won the WC of 2010 and 2014
RVP is disliked by many Dutch people, he had an attitude problem while playing at Feyenoord. He left the Dutch league early, he talks with a dutch/moraccan accent and he made a hand gesture against Huntelaar during the game against Kazachstan. He also refused to talk the the media several times.
It's a bit like Seedorf.. he was also disliked but after he 'retired' from international football people started to appreciate him. Personally i don't rate Huntelaar that much so i hope RVP keeps playing for the national team but he does need to improve.
Really? How did that come about?
Probably because he grew up in a neighborhood of people of Moroccan descent.
That explains why he has a Moroccan wife.
Not liking someone because of their accent is a bit silly.
Haha, just last week I read the English couch talking about Rooney's accent and it becoming a deal. Even here you still have people talking about Rooney and him being a scourse and his accent etc.
So why is it hard to believe that Dutch people will have issues with RvP having an accent?
It explain nothing guyz. If he had another accent, it's more due to Rotterdam more than the people our decendent in his town...
His wife was born in Holland and she is Dutch like him, with no accent...
I just think that his supposed Morocan accent is wrong.
Maybe people dislike him because he has a wife with other origins and probably because he always had a difficult caracter
It adds up.. they don't like him because they want Huntelaar in the starting line up. Because of this his 'haters' (for lack of a better word) try to find all kinds of things to criticize him. Also if i read Dutch forum, i believe 99.9% doesn't want him as a captain anymore.. everyone wants Robben.
I just can't understand why many Dutch fans don't rate him. His performances aren't that bad. He has to play with Robben, who always cuts inside and shoots in our normaal 4-3-3 system, Lens (hopefully Depay in the near future) who also cuts inside and Sneijder who prefers to shoot instead of pass to RVP.
I think it's silly that people dislike Rooney's accent too. It just seems like an unnecessary characteristic to hold against someone. It isn't hard to believe that people do it though, I just think it's an irrelevant issue.
Your assumption that Dutch fans actually rate players is wrong. 90% of the Dutch fans dont do rating, they just do liking and hating. And most of them like those who they are told to like by the media, who feed them with facts, not so very factual stories, selective stats and suggestive choice of words and some glimpse of pseudo-football knowledge to confirm that those who they like best are also the best players for a certain position.
The Dutch national team is owned by the countryside and the media in a perverted collaboration. It's not entirely predictable who will be picked as the player who can't do anything wrong, and who is picked as the scapegoat, but generally the bigmouthed selfish countryboy with no selfcriticism and is not that talented has a good chance of beeing the fans favourite, especially when he claims fame and fortune hasn't changed him.
This wouldn't be such a problem if the managers always were like Van Gaal, but most of them give in to the pressure to play the most popular ones. Van Gaal didn't give an inch, he managed the popularity problem, but in his own way. So Van Gaal got all the stick, lots of it. But they waited and waited for their chance to have a go at Van Persie. It started the WC, immediately after his first not so spectacular match, and went for the kill last week, even before the first match. It has only softened because Hiddink made such a mess and is under fire.
Now watch him score against both Chelsea and City.
Nobody's questioning whether van Persie will still score goals, and still score some spectacular goals.
It's his overall game and suitability to our style of play (and future style of play) that's being questioned.
Really don't know what's happening with him.
His lack of effort is most worrying thing for me personally, as if he's completely exhausted yet he's had enough break and time to rest.
Perhaps he needs kick in arse and place on the bench, since this 'let's play him into form' clearly doesn't work.
His lack of effort is most worrying thing for me personally, as if he's completely exhausted yet he's had enough break and time to rest.
Perhaps he needs kick in arse and place on the bench, since this 'let's play him into form' clearly doesn't work.
I doubt LVG will bench him though if his poor form continues - you can only hope that he has the guts and distance to do so
Fair enough if he's making an effort to change it up and link things up. But to me it just doesn't seem natural to him, or like a good fit.
Was looking at some old Arsenal compilations and it's so clear that he's a solo striker who does best being given the ball in a quite isolated position, using his superb touch to steer the traffic, waiting for runners, and laying it off before going forward for the finish. It's what made him the player he was at Arsenal.
He had great, nippy runners either side of him and coming from deep, but he was given the space to do his thing.
He also had the legs to do the job superbly, challenge for the ball, beat a man more often and occasionally move the ball up the field himself.
These days he still plays like a solo striker, but doesn't even appear to have the legs to do it as well. And then when you put another no.9 in and around his space, it just detracts from him even further.
And then, with an ultra-attacking no.10 like Mata or Rooney thrown in, it's just so far away from the role he played at Arsenal, which is what brought the best out of him.
I don't even think playing him in his old Arsenal role as a solo striker with wide men would work that well any more. Because he looks lethargic, less willing to run, and that burst of ability to carry the ball forward that he had seems gone.
I just don't see an ideal role for him in the side.
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So you didn't bother watching the compilations when he was playing LM for Arsenal then I take it..
How a player plays depends on the tactics being deployed, his later years at Arsenal he was deployed as a solo Striker so he is obviously going to look like one.
EDIT: My point is anyway that it is a new system, Falcao also doesn't look comfortable in it yet and as for Mata well...
The forward line needs time to get used to the new setup, then I'll judge, however I am not too worried as even though they are well versed yet we are creating chances and scoring goals, and so is RVP...
He wasn't at his best when he played wide left or wide right. He's also changed as a player.
It has very little bearing on what he can do here now as a striker.
My point about being a solo striker is that putting another no.9 next to him and a second striker behind him is so far away from what had him playing his best.
I don't see a partnership striker in him, and he's lost bits of what made him a great solo striker at Arsenal. He's still a solo striker, but who doesn't have the legs he did before.
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He was voted Arsenals player of the season playing wide left...
Everyone is too quick to write players off after some off form, lets see what he can do once the new system beds in (we have only played 4 or so games with this formation)
He still became a better player as a solo striker. And he clearly can't play that wide role any more, so it has no bearing on what he can do as a striker today.
I'm not writing him off, and I think he'll still score goals. But I don't think he fits the team, or really ever has, even when he was bailing us out every other game two years ago. And I think he's even more limited now.
Hey, don't call me stupid!
@dannyrhinos89 is right though. Really a lot of Dutch people want RVP out to make room for Huntelaar. They are saying this since before WC of 2010 started and even when RVP was a class above any other striker in England they still wanted Huntelaar to start because he has a better average (despite RVP being the national topscorer). Some people even claim that with Huntelaar the Netherlands would have won the WC of 2010 and 2014
RVP is disliked by many Dutch people, he had an attitude problem while playing at Feyenoord. He left the Dutch league early, he talks with a dutch/moraccan accent and he made a hand gesture against Huntelaar during the game against Kazachstan. He also refused to talk the the media several times.
It's a bit like Seedorf.. he was also disliked but after he 'retired' from international football people started to appreciate him. Personally i don't rate Huntelaar that much so i hope RVP keeps playing for the national team but he does need to improve.
Says a lot about Dutch attitude towards moroccans (get your spelling right first though).
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