He wasn't our best player but there's nothing he can do with the service as bad as it was.
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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What if Rooney scored from it ? Sometimes these attempts have to be made and accepted by us for they are, otherwise we'd rarely see crazy goals like Ronaldo's vs Porto (I remember yelling to him to pass the ball btw).
He had plenty of the ball. All three forwards did. The point is that as a unit they couldn't provide the penetration to get a goal. But for me that had more to do with Chelsea's superb defending than any fault of ours, since all three played reasonably well.
Certainly RVP can have no complaints about his service. Rooney had the same, was the one carving what openings we did get, and also managed to produce more goal threat.
Plenty of the ball? At the half way line ? He had no service to speak of
And Rooney didn't "have the same". He was part of the service yesterday. What goal threat? Shooting from 25 yards instead of passing it to Rvp who was in a better position to provide said goal threat?
Where did I say that United are a 1 man team or that RvP is infallible????
RVP was meant to be the focal point of our attack. Rooney Welbeck and Valencia (don't see why you missed him out) were meant to load the bullets for RVP. Due to as you say good defending but also with a bit of lack of invention by us (Valencia refusing to take on his man mostly) we never loaded any bullets for RVP to be fair his service was very limited. Rooney wasn't meant to have more goal threat (he didnt he played deeper so seen more of the ball and shot spectivley from distance a few times) he was one of the players who was meant to give RVP service (think partially this is why he is unhappy) as he wants to be the main man. Rooney played well but wasn't brilliant creativly (partially down to Chelsea defending well as you say) but more his effort and willingness was great.
Yep.
Anyways so far Rvp is looking great. 4 goals already and his overall play has looked excellent. Would love to see us get him on the ball more often though.
It's wierd on here these days, people just read posts completely differently to how they are meant to just so they can make the point they've wanted to make.
It's always been like this in the United forum to be fair. It's one of the reasons why a lot of regulars have stopped posting in the United forum. A shame really.
In fairness, he didn't say you said that. I think what he meant is that there's a general feeling on here towards RvP to be extremely indulgent towards his performances (which is okay after all) and to tend to put it down to others being bad ('lack of service') rather than himself when he doesn't do well. Of course, it changes from one game to another, but I do tend to believe that people are easy on RvP, when he was in poor form last year, went on a barren spell and overall wasn't playing great (imo), all you read was 'his movement is still great' which is frankly just the easiest let off possible!
I'm not advocating being harsh on him by the way, I'm not advocating being 'nicer' to other players like Rooney, Valencia or Nani who get castigated after a mediocre performance, I'm not advocating anything to be honest. Every player comes with his baggage and his part of subjectivity vis-à-vis the supporters, so it seems fair that Rooney is going to get a harder treatment than RvP who hasn't put a foot wrong as far as communication goes since he's arrived.
I'm just saying that there's indeed an general tendency to not find anything wrong with RvP even when he hasn't been great. And that's what I think Brightonian was getting at.
In fairness I only wrote that I thought (my opinion, which everybody is entitled to disagree with) RvP was our best player on Wednesday, to which Brightonian replied "Lets not create a myth...".
It was never my intention to create such myths. So I think it's unfair to use that post of mine for his arguments. Nevertheless, I'm not really bothered about it, I just want to put something straight.
Fair enough.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but the general opinion was that he hadn't been anything special on Monday, and that others from our team had been better. I honestly don't think anyone else would argue he was our 'best' player against Chelsea, but I wouldn't argue he was poor either.
And it's just the fact that someone would argue he was the best, but only didn't shine because others around him didn't offer him enough supply, in addition to other posts along the same lines in this thread (if Rams talks about 'creating a myth', I doubt he was basing that idea on just your post, but more on the accumulation of opinions that may seem slightly warped in his favour), that give that general impression.
But as you say, it's just opinions.
Oh my God... somebody is doing again; putting words in my mouth...
I thought it was a dreadful match. I thought most players underperformed (although I think you should not under estimate how difficult it can be to put in a decent performance against opposition playing so negatively).
I thought RvP was our best player. Maybe the things he did din't stand out as much as with Rooney for example, but actually I thought he did everything he could have done in an un-noticed sort of way. The control he showed to hold the ball up at times was magical I thought. I'm a player myself and I know how difficult it actually is.
I also think Brightonian was wrong to use my post to use his arguments as it gives the impression that i think United are a 1 man team and RvP is infallible, which I don't think.
Where did I put words in your mouth though? Your exact initial post was: "I thought RvP was our best player tonight, held the ball up well, kept possession and showed a few bits of class. But in terms as service in the box he had little to live off."
I say it again: someone arguing that he was our 'best' player the other night can easily lead to extrapolation as it's really a hard view to defend. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it, of course, but it's bound to cause some surprise because frankly, he wasn't our best player by any stretch of the imagination (and I'm a player as well, as are quite a few on here I think, and can relate to how hard a game it must have been for him, and how good he is at holding up the ball).
I understand that you think Brightonian shouldn't have used your post as an example, but you had originally stated that he was 'putting words into your mouth' (when, really, even if you're being critical, the most he did was link your post to an overall opinion that's present in these pages), my only point was that he probably wasn't but was just airing an opinion about people's perception of Van Persie on here.
I say it again: someone arguing that he was our 'best' player the other night can easily lead to extrapolation as it's really a hard view to defend. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it, of course, but it's bound to cause some surprise because frankly, he wasn't our best player by any stretch of the imagination (and I'm a player as well, as are quite a few on here I think, and can relate to how hard a game it must have been for him, and how good he is at holding up the ball).
I understand that you think Brightonian shouldn't have used your post as an example, but you had originally stated that he was 'putting words into your mouth' (when, really, even if you're being critical, the most he did was link your post to an overall opinion that's present in these pages), my only point was that he probably wasn't but was just airing an opinion about people's perception of Van Persie on here.
"And it's just the fact that someone would argue he was the best, but only didn't shine because others around him didn't offer him enough supply"
Rooney in Paris: what's this then? Did I say this?
If you want to know the reason why I didn't give MoM to Rooney was because I thought Rooney made 2 crucial errors: 1) the delayed pass to Welbeck and 2) when he should have passed to RvP when RvP would have been through on goal. I also didn't give it to Vidic because, although I can't remember Vidic putting a foot wrong, Vidic had it a lot easier then RvP. That's my 2 cents worth anyway. So, if you are going to debate my opinions then please debate the opinions I've actually written down!
Rooney in Paris: what's this then? Did I say this?
If you want to know the reason why I didn't give MoM to Rooney was because I thought Rooney made 2 crucial errors: 1) the delayed pass to Welbeck and 2) when he should have passed to RvP when RvP would have been through on goal. I also didn't give it to Vidic because, although I can't remember Vidic putting a foot wrong, Vidic had it a lot easier then RvP. That's my 2 cents worth anyway. So, if you are going to debate my opinions then please debate the opinions I've actually written down!
Well you did say "in terms as service in the box he had little to live off".
If that's not what you meant, apologies, but I don't think you need to get your knickers in a twist, it was obviously a misunderstanding and not me 'putting words in your mouth'. Jeez.
I didn't give that as the reason for making him MoM. But obviously you know my mind better then I do myself (which you also didn't say). Anyway, your right, I'm wrong.
Doesn't like playing against Agger and Skrtel, doesn't he? Had no service whatsoever, but I expected him to at least keep the ball much better than he did today.
Had 2 chances today, not easy, but did not get the shots on target. We'll need Van Persie to take these half chances until the lack of creativity within the squad is addressed.
I still think Rooney's far more clinical when it comes to finishing the simpler chances that come his way. Reckon he would've done better with that chance towards the end today.
Van Persie is obviously a fantastic player but he's still not as clinical as he could be, this often gets overlooked because of the quality of the rest of his game and the great goals he scores. Feels like nitpicking really, but definitely something he could work on.
I've kinda thought van Persie actually gets a goal from nothing and maintains a constant danger to the other team - not sure I agree Rooney is more clinical. It's been a while since he's shown that to be fair
If only that great pass from Hernandez came from the other so RVP would receive it on his left foot.
Van Persie playing ahead of 3 players who don't create much is such a waste. Giggs has his moments but mainly from a late cameo, Welbeck isn't going to be cutting defences open and Ashley Young is just really poor. He must be really frustrated after today. Wasted up there.
Carrick supplied RvP a fair bit last season but it seems he's been told to stay back.
RvP needs to be more clinical? God help the rest of the league if that ever happens...
They were not simple chances and I'd back Van Persie then Rooney to be finishing simple, or half chances.
Don't think the issue with RVP is Carrick being slightly less adventurous vs the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool, it's the 'creative' line behind him which just isn't creative. Crossing is woeful, passing is non-existant and I don't think I've seen a pull back since Valencia vs Swansea.
I feel with the right service he would be even better. Once our midfield issues are sorted out he would be unstoppable.
I agree with that, I think Rooney is really very clinical with chances inside the box, like low crosses or through passes one on one with the goalkeeper. But it's also sure RvP has that think where he can conjure a goal out of nowhere, and he's better at the harder ones.
I'd defended this opinion a while back on here, but most people didn't agree, if I recall correctly.
It doesn't mean he isn't the best striker in the league, it's just that he isn't necessarily clinical enough with the easier chances. I think someone had posted the stats here, on strikers having most opportunities last season, RvP was the one with the lowest conversion ratio from 'clear cut chances'. It doesn't mean people don't appreciate the other aspects of his game, but on simpler chances, he doesn't always do that great I think.
I must say, the way Moyes has been speaking about Persie since he arrived, basically in total awe of him and constantly saying that 'we expect him to get us the goals' etc is ever so sllightly worrying. I mean, Persie is brilliant, and the best striker in the league, but I can't help feel even more this season that the team is almost being set up only for him to score. It's like the rest of the team are there to defend and contain, and the expectation is just that RVP will do the scoring bit.
Maybe I have misinterpreted things, but I'd have liked to get the impression that the 'team' was set up to attack, and the emphasis would be on more than one goal threat. If anything, the team will probably be going for more and more 1-0s, and potentially, goalscoring problems altogether. Just that right from his 'our thinking with Rooney is that if anything happens to RVP' comments, I've heard a few similar ones that have implied 'goals? well that's what we have RVP to do'.
Maybe I have misinterpreted things, but I'd have liked to get the impression that the 'team' was set up to attack, and the emphasis would be on more than one goal threat. If anything, the team will probably be going for more and more 1-0s, and potentially, goalscoring problems altogether. Just that right from his 'our thinking with Rooney is that if anything happens to RVP' comments, I've heard a few similar ones that have implied 'goals? well that's what we have RVP to do'.
You've definitely misinterpreted things. A team set up for Robin would have been giving him far more service and pretty much everything we do would be geared around getting the ball to him in and around the box. We hardly spot his runs, even when he's in acres of space with his arms outstretched,screaming for the ball, and we barely give him enough service. He's so peripheral sometimes and it's a shame. I thought it was because Carrick seems to be playing further back when he has a good little link up with Robin last season, but imo this team isn't making the best use of him right now.
not a good game for him. Was never really able to get on the ball and do anything. Had only really that one chance in the second half from hernandez's pass. We really need to work on getting better supply to him. Though credit to Liverpool for basically cutting him off from the game.
He has been quiet the last 2 games but that stems from our midfield and wide players inability to create anything. Until we have these areas sorted out then I'm not even sure he should be first choice in a difficult away match - he isn't suited to counterattacking which is our best chance when there is no creativity.
Realistically though the big problem is that we have Nani and Kagawa both MIA and Rooney out for weeks - these should be our three first choices for playing behind RVP/Wide in a 4-2-3-1. As it is we have the likes of Giggs, Welbeck and Valencia, none of whom are able to consistently create anything.
Also we need new midfielders.
Realistically though the big problem is that we have Nani and Kagawa both MIA and Rooney out for weeks - these should be our three first choices for playing behind RVP/Wide in a 4-2-3-1. As it is we have the likes of Giggs, Welbeck and Valencia, none of whom are able to consistently create anything.
Also we need new midfielders.
Van Persie will get us goals, if given the right opportunities. But right now, he's having to rely on our non-existent midfield to supply him with non-existent chances.
I can only imagine how good he would be with some quality midfielders behind him.
If he was playing infront of the our 98-99 midfield. He'd be scoring goals, left right and centre.
Robin van Persie and David Moyes hit skids
DAVID MOYES is facing a battle to win over Manchester United star Robin van Persie.
By David Woods/Published 4th September 2013
Van Persie cut a frustrated figure at Anfield on Sunday and looked close to losing his cool several times
Starsport can reveal the United striker has yet to be convinced by new Old Trafford boss Moyes, who replaced Sir Alex Ferguson in the summer.
The Dutchman has told pals he is missing Fergie, who was key in persuading him to quit Arsenal for Old Trafford a year ago in a £25m deal.
It is understood Van Persie also has misgivings about some of Moyes' training methods.
Former Everton boss Moyes now has his work cut out to convince Van Persie he is the right man for the United hotseat.
Despite starting the season brightly, with two goals in the champions' first two games, the 30-year-old appeared out of sorts in the goalless draw with Chelsea and 1-0 defeat at Liverpool.
Moyes needs to find a way to bring the dutchman round
Van Persie cut a frustrated figure at Anfield on Sunday and looked close to losing his cool several times.
A friend of Van Persie - who has been the Premier League's top scorer for the last two seasons - said: "Robin isn't happy and when that's the case he can't hide it on the pitch.
"When he's frustrated he is capable of doing something silly, and you could see that against Liverpool.
"He feels it isn't the same with the new manager as he misses working with Fergie, who he really loved playing under. Some of Moyes' training methods are not to his liking either.
"http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/336543/Robin-van-Persie-and-David-Moyes-hit-skids
DAVID MOYES is facing a battle to win over Manchester United star Robin van Persie.
By David Woods/Published 4th September 2013
Starsport can reveal the United striker has yet to be convinced by new Old Trafford boss Moyes, who replaced Sir Alex Ferguson in the summer.
The Dutchman has told pals he is missing Fergie, who was key in persuading him to quit Arsenal for Old Trafford a year ago in a £25m deal.
It is understood Van Persie also has misgivings about some of Moyes' training methods.
Former Everton boss Moyes now has his work cut out to convince Van Persie he is the right man for the United hotseat.
Despite starting the season brightly, with two goals in the champions' first two games, the 30-year-old appeared out of sorts in the goalless draw with Chelsea and 1-0 defeat at Liverpool.
“When he's frustrated he is capable of doing something silly, and you could see that against Liverpool.”
A friend of Robin van Persie
A friend of Van Persie - who has been the Premier League's top scorer for the last two seasons - said: "Robin isn't happy and when that's the case he can't hide it on the pitch.
"When he's frustrated he is capable of doing something silly, and you could see that against Liverpool.
"He feels it isn't the same with the new manager as he misses working with Fergie, who he really loved playing under. Some of Moyes' training methods are not to his liking either.
"http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/336543/Robin-van-Persie-and-David-Moyes-hit-skids
Dailystar? Really?..
He's always been like that anyway. I'd have not cared one bit if he had have dropped Skrtel for going through the back of him several times unpunished and gotten sent off.
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