And scored 132 goals. That's 7 a month! Great return for £2.75m. Bargain in fact considering the £16m more we paid for Ruud's extra 18 goals.
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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And scored 132 goals. That's 7 a month! Great return for £2.75m. Bargain in fact considering the £16m more we paid for Ruud's extra 18 goals.
Yep.
Some people think players owe more to clubs than clubs owe to players. In truth for the vast majority of them, it's just a mutual beneficial relation, and when that ceases to be the case, they try to end it.
Hulk is loved by Porto fans. He was pushed out the door and convinced to accept a deal in a country he didn't really want to play. We love him. Had it been him asking to go to Russia, and we'd all be calling him a mercenary disloyal bastard.
A player leaving because he wants bigger and better things is fine, Fabregas left for that very reason and I don't think many Arsenal fans hold a grudge against him and if we played Barca I think he would get a great ovation on his return. He gave us 7 great seasons and went back to the best club in the world and where he came from. I can't say I agree with how he went about it but maybe I'd do the same in his position.
However when people like RvP leave it is different because Man Utd or any big club wouldn't of touched him with a barge pole a year or two earlier and I think if push came to shove he would of signed a contract extension then and it is our fault for not pushing that on him. Then all of a sudden he wants more and this club wasn't good enough for him, this club stood by him through his poor form, rape trial (funny I heard he was singing glory glory Man utd at your Xmas party, your fans had a lovely song regarding his rape maybe he should of sang that) & through all his injuries. He should never forget who made him the player he is and who stuck with him during his bad time, obviously he felt differently and maybe the lack of ambition at the club and our best players leaving forced his hand.
Part of the anger I think is towards the club, Fergie was hell bent on signing Vieira, I don't think he has ever pushed for a player so hard but once upon a time this club wouldn't take that kind of shit and told Fergie and your club to do one, times are different now and I think it is hard to take. If the club had told him he leaves for Juve or he finishes his contract a lot of fans would of felt a sense of pride and would of backed the manager and board but as usual the club the do the sensible business thing & what is best for them even though we aren't exactly in a dire financial situation.
How far should 'standing by him whilst he's injured' carry you, though?
How many years of subpar teams should he put up with, whilst watching the few decent players that are alongside him leave?
As for the songs and him singing at the party, that just makes you sound very, very bitter.
How many years of subpar teams should he put up with, whilst watching the few decent players that are alongside him leave?
As for the songs and him singing at the party, that just makes you sound very, very bitter.
So really you wouldnt have as you didn't.
You think he suddenly wanted better? He always wanted better. And while Arsenal stood by him through injury, he stood by you through trophyless seasons.
I'm sure he remembers, thats why he's thanked Wenger. But he scored a few goals for you too.
Vieira would have been long gone if you couldnt compete for trophies and if he chose United, thats how it would have been. As for letting him leave on a free, you wouldnt have brought in the likes of Cazorla and I'm sure even more of your fans would want the manager gone than now when you were midtable.
I agree, if Cesc had have come to United then he'd have had the same 'cnut chops' questionable thrown at him by Pete.
However "HE" made himself the player he is today. You're being a little precious.
Would you feel the same way if he'd gone to another club in England?
First of all, about us not touching him with a pole before, you make him sound like he'd spent 6 whole years in the physio room. He was very injury prone, maybe due to training methods or whatever, but I'm not quite sure that's true. But yes, of course, his form over the last 18 months made the decision very easy.
On the second part, ignoring the singing piece which is ridiculous and as said above just makes you sound bitter: last year, in October/November I was looking for a job and 'no one would touch me with a pole'. I had a good CV and good work experience, but just couldn't get a break, an interview, anywhere. In December, I got very lucky and an insurance company recruited me. Not a bad company by any standards, but not the leading one in the field either. I started there in January, my first real full time contract (before, my work experiences had been internships), and I learned A LOT during my first 6 months there. Basically, they 'made me the employee I am'. In June of this year, I was headhunted by a bigger company, in the same field, the leading company in our domain. They offered me more money, a more interesting contract, and a chance to work for a company with incredible growth potential and great perspectives for me. The choice was made in a heartbeat. I wasn't unhappy at all at my previous company, but it was stagnating and in our field it's recognized it probably isn't dynamic enough.
In your opinion, should I have stayed at my previous company just because they'd taken a chance on me and given me some good experience that would now benefit one of their competitors? If the answer is no, why should RvP's situation be treated any different?
It's a question I honestly ask myself. It's a situation that in business you see every day, people being recruited by a rival, people chosing another company because they don't feel the one they're at can satisfy their ambition, but because this is football, we tend to get all high and mighty about it like it's a secluded sector that shouldn't be aligned with what's going on everywhere else, like it's some sheltered haven where concepts of loyalty and love have this huge importance (because loyalty and affectio societatis are important in regular business life after all, you don't choose only according to money or ambition, you choose also for subjective reasons). I never quite understand it.
It's not true that Fergie wouldn't have touched him before he put his injuries behind him. Fergie said a few times that if he could pick one player from the league he'd take Van Persie, and that was when he was injured every other week.
He never disrespected the club - all he said was that he disagreed with the transfer policy, felt the club was stagnating and knew he was at the age where a move would likely be the only way to win trophies. Vey hard to argue with any of those points.
Now he's moved to the club with the biggest tradition of winning trophies in the country, continues to act respectably with regards to Arsenal and didn't even celebrate despite being booed and called a rapist all game against his former club. It's clear to anyone with a brain that he made the right decision and has moved on to better things. He dragged Arsenal from what would probably have been an upper mid table side last season to get them a top four spot, personally I see that as sufficient payment for the support he got in the past. He had clearly been one of the side's top players for a number of years and sticking around would be mad for a player of that quality, especially at 29.
The bitterness on behalf of Arsenal fans is really quite pathetic and is more a reflection of Arsenal's decline than Van Persie's supposed lack of loyalty.
Now he's moved to the club with the biggest tradition of winning trophies in the country, continues to act respectably with regards to Arsenal and didn't even celebrate despite being booed and called a rapist all game against his former club. It's clear to anyone with a brain that he made the right decision and has moved on to better things. He dragged Arsenal from what would probably have been an upper mid table side last season to get them a top four spot, personally I see that as sufficient payment for the support he got in the past. He had clearly been one of the side's top players for a number of years and sticking around would be mad for a player of that quality, especially at 29.
The bitterness on behalf of Arsenal fans is really quite pathetic and is more a reflection of Arsenal's decline than Van Persie's supposed lack of loyalty.
Of course not. Some companies have a strategy of recruiting young and inexperienced people on the cheap, training them up, getting a few good years out of them when they are eager to prove themselves and enthusiastic. Others prefer to pay a little more and hire people with experience. You need both, it is just the way of the world. You wont be the first or the last to make that journey, and nor will Van Persie.
Arsenal do the same thing to the likes of Southampton, lower down the food chain. Im sure they would have liked to get a couple more years out of the likes of Ox and Walcott before they left in search of bigger and better things.
I think Jazz touched on it: the problem Arsenal have now is expectation management. Having been a club that challenges for trophies, they still dont feel like a club - like Spurs or Villa or somewhere - that people leave in order to win things. But that is exactly what they are now, and have been for some time. They'll never like it when it happens - most Spurs fans I know still resent Berbs for leaving to join us. But at least, like those Spurs fans, perhaps they will learn to not be surprised.
I think its very raw with Arsenal fans because it brings into question Arsenal's stature in the English game. This is a player who has made a genuine decision to join what he perceives as a bigger and better club. The signings of Nasri, Clichy et al to City and Cashley to Chelsea could be dismissed as mercenaries going after the money, whilst others who went abroad could have done so for cultural / weather-related reasons or to play in another league.
The RVP case is different. Here was a player, their best at the time of his transfer, who decided he wanted to transfer to another English club, not for the sole purpose of milking the new clubs for their millions, but to play at a club he thinks are more illustrious and successful. That's what hurts the most with the Arse fans
The RVP case is different. Here was a player, their best at the time of his transfer, who decided he wanted to transfer to another English club, not for the sole purpose of milking the new clubs for their millions, but to play at a club he thinks are more illustrious and successful. That's what hurts the most with the Arse fans
Adebesi and Crustanoid nailed it really.
That's what I thought, combine the two posts and it says a lot. I think that really a lot of Arsenal fans are pissed because we're still 'rivals' of sorts and they felt betrayed by RVP, but that is as well as the above posts.
Yeah, they're basically a guy who got dumped by his girlfriend who wanted bigger cock. Obviously it's more comfortable to think she fecked off for money.
We would be upset if we were in their position just as well, fortunately we aren't.
We would be upset if we were in their position just as well, fortunately we aren't.
The irony in all this is she left someone who was such a massive cock, for someone with a massive cock. Unfortunately I dont suppose that irony will make it any easier for Arsenal fans.
Still incredible that he plays for United now - Robin van bloody Persie. I'm still over the moon! 
Multi post time!
That has to be the one of the most stupid argument I've read on here, ever thought maybe the reason for those trophyless seasons was because we stood by players like him rather than getting players we needed more quickly? As for suddenly wanting better, have a look at this quote
Funny how within 1.5 years he changed his point of view all of a sudden. All he wants to do is win with Arsenal and now it is all about the little boy inside him wanting to join Man utd, funnily enough even as a child he supported Arsenal but that little boy eyes lit up at £250k a week AND the chance to win trophies. If Man Utd had offered him £100k he wouldn't of come then that is for sure, Fabregas took a pay cut to join Barca I don't think RvP would of.
Yes I'm sure all the work our coaches did with him mean little to nothing to enhance him as a skilful wasteful hot head when he joined us.
If that company had taken you in when you were young, spent a lot of time and money on you and shown you great support and the first chance you get to leave for better things I think the people at the company would be rightfully a bit pissed off with you. If Rooney had left your lot I wonder what you would feel, some still haven't fully forgiven him for his comments a while back.
As for his injuries, he has now gone 65 league games without injury, his previous best was 14. Note that his previous best was 14 so many times before that he would break down with injuries
That was supposedly at a dinner which isn't exactly the most reliable source
So what about when he was stagnating as a player and there didn't seem to be an end to his injuries?
No offence but your post did make me laugh, Nasri and co didn't just leave for the money, they thought they had a better chance of trophies and have been proven right. RvP is in exactly the same boat. Obviously being associated with City is something you don't want so you are trying to justify your reasons.
The difference in quality between both clubs last season was minimal. As far as money one offered £250k and other between £275-£300k. At Man Utd you have two young strikers who are not of the same quality as RvP so he would get plenty of games. At City you have Aguero, Tevez, Balotelli & Dzeko so while he is better than them why would he want to be up against them and fight for his place? RvP unlike most players isn't stupid and took everything into consideration between the two clubs before deciding Man Utd, if I was in his position and had to choose I'd choose Man Utd as well, no brainer for me. Stable club with stable manager who treats his players well, you could say the opposite of Man City. Also he joins Man Utd easier to say he joined for trophies, joins City and he gets a mercenary tag put on him.
That has to be the one of the most stupid argument I've read on here, ever thought maybe the reason for those trophyless seasons was because we stood by players like him rather than getting players we needed more quickly? As for suddenly wanting better, have a look at this quote
Funny how within 1.5 years he changed his point of view all of a sudden. All he wants to do is win with Arsenal and now it is all about the little boy inside him wanting to join Man utd, funnily enough even as a child he supported Arsenal but that little boy eyes lit up at £250k a week AND the chance to win trophies. If Man Utd had offered him £100k he wouldn't of come then that is for sure, Fabregas took a pay cut to join Barca I don't think RvP would of.
Yes I'm sure all the work our coaches did with him mean little to nothing to enhance him as a skilful wasteful hot head when he joined us.
If that company had taken you in when you were young, spent a lot of time and money on you and shown you great support and the first chance you get to leave for better things I think the people at the company would be rightfully a bit pissed off with you. If Rooney had left your lot I wonder what you would feel, some still haven't fully forgiven him for his comments a while back.
As for his injuries, he has now gone 65 league games without injury, his previous best was 14. Note that his previous best was 14 so many times before that he would break down with injuries
That was supposedly at a dinner which isn't exactly the most reliable source
So what about when he was stagnating as a player and there didn't seem to be an end to his injuries?
No offence but your post did make me laugh, Nasri and co didn't just leave for the money, they thought they had a better chance of trophies and have been proven right. RvP is in exactly the same boat. Obviously being associated with City is something you don't want so you are trying to justify your reasons.
The difference in quality between both clubs last season was minimal. As far as money one offered £250k and other between £275-£300k. At Man Utd you have two young strikers who are not of the same quality as RvP so he would get plenty of games. At City you have Aguero, Tevez, Balotelli & Dzeko so while he is better than them why would he want to be up against them and fight for his place? RvP unlike most players isn't stupid and took everything into consideration between the two clubs before deciding Man Utd, if I was in his position and had to choose I'd choose Man Utd as well, no brainer for me. Stable club with stable manager who treats his players well, you could say the opposite of Man City. Also he joins Man Utd easier to say he joined for trophies, joins City and he gets a mercenary tag put on him.
For those who will probably ask or assume, I'm not that bitter about him leaving as I am about him not being replaced. That is still what gets to me!
I struggle to figure out which is the stupider claim, that RVP wouldn't have been a regular starter at Manchester City, or that we pay any player 250 grand a week.
He's comfortably better than Balotelli or Dzeko. Also if Man City would have spunked 25m and given him around 300k then there's no chance in hell that he wouldn't have been a regular starter.
8 years ago if you told me Arsenal wouldn't win the league in the next 8 years and barely come close, I would have been extremely surprised. If someone told me they won't win the league for the next 8 years, I would expect it.
Isn't he meant to be in the same £180k per week bracket as Rooney?
Rooney's on 180k, so it's logical to assume we gave RVP the same wage. The 250k thing presumably comes from when the Mail invented that as the payrise we'd given Rooney, which was just patently absurd.
Yes, that is most likely. But pete and other Arsenal fans here want to believe that he is on 250k, so that mean that he changed the club for money.
In the end, if facts don't suit your theory, then alter the facts.
And if they had got him they would probably have sold one of those two.
Jazz, how do you know he's getting paid 250 grand a week? If you don't know for certain, stop posting it!
Secondly, you come across as very bitter. Talking about how he changed his attitude. Ronaldo did the same thing with us. You need to look beyond your feelings and think about things from RVP's point of view. It might be the case that in his ideal world, that's what he wanted (trophies with arsenal) but he must have seen some signs that winning a trophy with Arsenal was becoming less and less likely. So because he said those things, you would have wanted him to keep his word and stay and potentially not win any more trophies in his career?
This is a profession mate. He's 29. There are times when you simply have to put sentiment to the side to do what's best for your career. Arsenal are a steaming kettle shaking from the immense heat they can't seem to escape from. Considering RVP's career is almost finished, going to a side which has a phenomenal track record for winning trophies makes sense. Plus, we're a much more stable club when it comes to challenging for honors. Maybe this all violates your ideal of player loyalty and all that but you must consider other perspectives. Club loyalty is something few people talk about but there's been many times where clubs have ripped off players willy nilly and players can do little about it. Isn't that why we have parasites like agents now? I think the fact that RVP changed his mind shows how far Arsenal have fallen when we challenged each other for glory.
If it was purely down to money, then he would have went to City, not so? There must have been other reasons too. And don't use this wage thing as some type of fuel to say RVP's simply a mercenary. Name me one player within the past 4 or 5 years who has moved to a bigger club and taken a wage cut. It's business. If you can get paid more doing the job you love and increase your chances of success, then why not take it?
I'm sure it hurts mate but this is the reality of football now. The way you've treated your finances now has made this reality more gruesome for Arsenal supporters year after year. Players more often than not do what's best for their career. That's what RVP did.
Secondly, you come across as very bitter. Talking about how he changed his attitude. Ronaldo did the same thing with us. You need to look beyond your feelings and think about things from RVP's point of view. It might be the case that in his ideal world, that's what he wanted (trophies with arsenal) but he must have seen some signs that winning a trophy with Arsenal was becoming less and less likely. So because he said those things, you would have wanted him to keep his word and stay and potentially not win any more trophies in his career?
This is a profession mate. He's 29. There are times when you simply have to put sentiment to the side to do what's best for your career. Arsenal are a steaming kettle shaking from the immense heat they can't seem to escape from. Considering RVP's career is almost finished, going to a side which has a phenomenal track record for winning trophies makes sense. Plus, we're a much more stable club when it comes to challenging for honors. Maybe this all violates your ideal of player loyalty and all that but you must consider other perspectives. Club loyalty is something few people talk about but there's been many times where clubs have ripped off players willy nilly and players can do little about it. Isn't that why we have parasites like agents now? I think the fact that RVP changed his mind shows how far Arsenal have fallen when we challenged each other for glory.
If it was purely down to money, then he would have went to City, not so? There must have been other reasons too. And don't use this wage thing as some type of fuel to say RVP's simply a mercenary. Name me one player within the past 4 or 5 years who has moved to a bigger club and taken a wage cut. It's business. If you can get paid more doing the job you love and increase your chances of success, then why not take it?
I'm sure it hurts mate but this is the reality of football now. The way you've treated your finances now has made this reality more gruesome for Arsenal supporters year after year. Players more often than not do what's best for their career. That's what RVP did.
All the reliable sources I've seen give either £180k or £200k. The £250k is a Fail fabrication which every ABU in the country immediately jumped on as hard fact. Rooney likewise.
A bit more complicated with Rooney (and maybe RVP, if he is on the same model of contract as is often suggested) because we give him a much bigger slice of his image rights than most players get. But that's only because Rooney probably gets more for them than any other player in England.
It seems pretty clear that Rooney wanted and got parity with Aguero and co at about £220K. Van Persie is supposed to have matched this plus a £10M signing on fee+ cnut bonus.
You have got your sums all wrong here Pete.
For 2011/12 the total wage bills for the two clubs were:
Arsenal: £143,488,00
United:£161,688,000
That is a difference of £18,200,000
The average number of full time employees were:
Arsenal: 496
United: 696
Those 200 extra employees are probably because United has a far larger commercial and media division. That commercial and media team is probably fairly well paid and (including Employer's NIC) we could estimate those extra 200 employees are paid a total of £10m a year.
That means United's extra wage spending on players is only £8.2m per year. Take off the employer's NIC of 13.8% and it means an extra £7.2m of actual wages. Assuming you are right that this is just spread amongst the top 10 players this would mean an extra £720k per player which is just under £14k per week. A long way away from the £60k you have suggested.
The truth is Arsenal actually have a very high total wage bill for a club that doesn't win any trophies or challenge for the title. Your playing wage bill is only 5%-10% below ours and is miles ahead of the second tier teams like Spurs and Everton.
You're now pulling figures out of your ass now mate. The 10m thing hasn't been reported anywhere and don't think anyone would pay that high a signing on fee unless that player is a bosman transfer.
Jazz, Arsenal is financially too weak to replace a player like RVP. RVP became too big for a club that is lacking ambitions. These are the cold hard truths.
Wrong. According to the official United financial reports, Rooney is at 180K while van Persie is at 130K.
I will post the link as soon as I find it.
He'll have a pretty major signing on fee to offset the fact that we got him fairly cheap on account of his contract situation. It probably won't be as much £10m given how much Arsenal screwed us on the price, but it'd be pretty bloody hefty.
Even if these numbers are true: As long as plastic clubs like City or Chelsea are burning money for fun the power is with the players. It's sink or swim. Arsenal decided to sink. All the moaning and bitching won't change that.
Yes sure, it'd be big. But not as big as nearly 50% of a transfer deal.
I do not think individual player salaries are ever disclosed in any official way by United.
I used the 2010/11 figures which are more representative of the historical 20-25% gap. The recent one you quote looks artificially low as it sometimes is due to variations in contract renewals etc
Hmmm. 'Seems pretty clear' vs. actual sources. Sounds legit.
Don't think he's on this little, that's what Arsenal were reportedly offering him.
What 'official' sources? Telegraph do you... 'With Manchester City appearing to accept defeat in the race for the Arsenal striker, and Juventus baulking at the player’s wage demands, United are moving quickly to conclude a deal.
Their willingness to match the £220,000 a week wages earned by Rooney has tipped the balance in their favour. The financial rewards will be staggering for the 29-year-old Dutchman at Old Trafford, and somewhat unprecedented given the stage of Van Persie’s career.
Their willingness to match the £220,000 a week wages earned by Rooney has tipped the balance in their favour. The financial rewards will be staggering for the 29-year-old Dutchman at Old Trafford, and somewhat unprecedented given the stage of Van Persie’s career.
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