Roberto Firmino

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I don't see where Firmino fits in our current lineup. Does Firmino #10, Herrera #8 and Carrick at #6 really give us enough balance in the middle?
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
I don't see where Firmino fits in our current lineup. Does Firmino #10, Herrera #8 and Carrick at #6 really give us enough balance in the middle?
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He would be part of the front 3 rather than the midfield I would imagine
 
I really hope it's us, he'd be a good signing and better than pointlessly chasing Kane all summer.
 
Cassidy said:
He would be part of the front 3 rather than the midfield I would imagine
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The only way I can see that working is with one of Mata, Memphis or Di Maria permanently relegated to rotation duty.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
The only way I can see that working is with one of Mata, Memphis or Di Maria permanently relegated to rotation duty.
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Healthy competition for places, I am fine with that.
 
Firmino would offer a great option on both wings, as a 10 and up front. Quite a versatile player to have being able to play across all attacking positions. I think ultimately van Gaal will see him as a number 10 and a striker.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
The only way I can see that working is with one of Mata, Memphis or Di Maria permanently relegated to rotation duty.
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Should be Mata. In my opinion, if the squad manages to reach the necessary standard, someone like Mata should be a rotational option/impact sub.
 
Speak said:
Should be Mata.
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Not really, it should be whoever is not on form, including Rooney.
If we sign this lad, he knows he would be coming to United and he would know he wouldn't be a guaranteed starter, just like Memphis.
I would expect their talents to take them there though, but yes all of those players could and should find themselves on the bench if they are showing poor form.
As we have seen with DiMaria this season.
 
Speak said:
Should be Mata. In my opinion, if the squad manages to reach the necessary standard, someone like Mata should be a rotational option/impact sub.
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Instinctively, I would say the same. But I have a sneaky suspicion that Memphis/Firmino and Di Maria on either wing would give us a look at the Mata we have always been waiting for. With the game stretched, spaces opened, and room to work his magic from his favoured position. My only problem really is that it leaves primarily just Carrick and Herrera to deal with the defensive side (whereas before they'd have Fellaini making up the efforts).
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
Instinctively, I would say the same. But I have a sneaky suspicion that Memphis/Firmino and Di Maria on either wing would give us a look at the Mata we have always been waiting for. With the game stretched, spaces opened, and room to work his magic from his favoured position. My only problem really is that it leaves primarily just Carrick and Herrera to deal with the defensive side (whereas before they'd have Fellaini making up the efforts).
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Schnierdelin
 
Didn't Sky Sports Germany report that we had signed him yesterday? From United to "Unknown" in 24 hours.
 
Iron Stove said:
Didn't Sky Sports Germany report that we had signed him yesterday? From United to "Unknown" in 24 hours.
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No, Sky Germany never said we signed him, that was ESPN Brazil, and they said we would be signing him.
 
Cassidy said:
Not really, it should be whoever is not on form, including Rooney.
If we sign this lad, he knows he would be coming to United and he would know he wouldn't be a guaranteed starter, just like Memphis.
I would expect their talents to take them there though, but yes all of those players could and should find themselves on the bench if they are showing poor form.
As we have seen with DiMaria this season.
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Almost every top team out there has some sort of first team. If form is changing so drastically that we're unable to even identify who's in the best Xi, then that's a worry.

Di Maria's a poor case. You don't go into a season expect that kind of showing. If one of them plays like that, the rotational option (Mata) comes in.
 
Speak said:
Almost every top team out there has some sort of first team. If form is changing so drastically that we're unable to even identify who's in the best Xi, then that's a worry.

di Maria's a poor case. You don't go into a season expect that kind of showing. If one of them plays like that, the rotational option (Mata) comes in.
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Yes but we're not a top team yet, we're in a process.
 
Cassidy said:
Schnierdelin
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Schneiderlin instead of Carrick? I've liked him whenever I've seen him, but at Southampton he's also had defensive minded players partnering him in Cork and Wanyama when they've had their best defensive performances over the season. Herrera isn't one of those, so I don't know if it is a worthwhile risk to expect him to step up from a collective role at Southampton to screening the defence and covering ground at an attack-oriented team. Carrick, Schneiderlin and Herrera as a three would definitely bring the sort of balance I'm thinking of, but that also involves striking out the #10 position and isolating Rooney a little more in the box.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
Schneiderlin instead of Carrick? I've liked him whenever I've seen him, but at Southampton he's also had defensive minded players partnering him in Cork and Wanyama when they've had their best defensive performances over the season. Herrera isn't one of those, so I don't know if it is a worthwhile risk to expect him to step up from a collective role at Southampton to screening the defence and covering ground at an attack-oriented team. Carrick, Schneiderlin and Herrera as a three would definitely bring the sort of balance I'm thinking of, but that also involves striking out the #10 position and isolating Rooney a little more in the box.
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2 of Schneiderlin Carrick and Herrera with a 10 is good enough tbh
Herrera has shown he can do a good defensive job already this season, hes not the best at it, but hes good enough to do a good job if next to Schneiderlin
 
Cassidy said:
Yes but we're not a top team yet, we're in a process.
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I did actually edit my post, probably just as you were responding. but I guess you could filter that down to almost any team in the Champions League has some sort of first team. Rotational option is competition for places, anyway. That's exactly what it provides. Mata would be a cracking rotational option because he's hardly a drop-off in quality, can play in a few positions, is pretty consistent with what he does, and is a goal-scorer.
 
Speak said:
I did actually edit my post, probably just as you were responding. but I guess you could filter that down to almost any team in the Champions League has some sort of first team. Rotational option is competition for places, anyway. That's exactly what it provides. Mata would be a cracking rotational option because he's hardly a drop-off in quality, can play in a few positions, is pretty consistent with what he does, and is a goal-scorer.
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By why wouldn't Memphis or Firmino be rotation options, is more the point I was making. Also if Rooney has 6/7 shit games in a row, and Firmino goes up front and scores 3 goals in 3, why should Rooney get his place back. See Young and DiMaria
 
Not really seen a lot of him admittedly, but looks like a very good little player based on that video from the OP. Got plenty of skill, and seems like a composed finisher too who’s capable of scoring some very good goals. Obviously would need to see a lot more of him though in order to judge fully.
 
Cassidy said:
By why wouldn't Memphis or Firmino be rotation options, is more the point I was making. Also if Rooney has 6/7 shit games in a row, and Firmino goes up front and scores 3 goals in 3, why should Rooney get his place back. See Young and DiMaria
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I think Mata's more suited to it than any of the others. He's more consistent in what he does, and can play three of the front four positions.
If Rooney has a number of poor games, and someone else takes his place and does well - then they stay in the team, definitely. But then you've got to address why Rooney's able to play so poorly for so long. The ideal is that your best (highest paid) players aren't playing badly enough to miss chunks of the season. If that's happening then you could argue the bar is lowered. it's a weakness, not a strength.

I guess we're arguing at different stages. You're talking about next season, whereas I'm talking about longer term. But there's still no way that we should be sitting here in January talking about one or two of them going completely off the boil, like Di maria or your Rooney example.

Their bottom levels should never be what you're describing in the Rooney example. In which case, there would be some sort of first choice.
 
Speak said:
I think Mata's more suited to it than any of the others. He's more consistent in what he does, and can play three of the front four positions.
If Rooney has a number of poor games, and someone else takes his place and does well - then they stay in the team, definitely. But then you've got to address why Rooney's able to play so poorly for so long. The ideal is that your best (highest paid) players aren't playing badly enough to miss chunks of the season. If that's happening then you could argue the bar is lowered. it's a weakness, not a strength.

I guess we're arguing at different stages. You're talking about next season, whereas I'm talking about longer term. There's no way that we should be sitting here in January talking about one or two of them going completely off the boil, like Di maria or your Rooney example.
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I only mention Rooney as its a recurring theme with him over the past 3 seasons. Also I don't think any of the front 3 players have earned any starting 11 status based on what I saw last season. Mata has equal as much chance as the rest IMO
 
Cassidy said:
By why wouldn't Memphis or Firmino be rotation options, is more the point I was making. Also if Rooney has 6/7 shit games in a row, and Firmino goes up front and scores 3 goals in 3, why should Rooney get his place back. See Young and DiMaria
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I don't think it's going to work like that with Rooney at all. He could have ten shit games in a row and would still find himself in 5 different position in the first team in van Gaal's setup somehow. Any other player yes, like we've seen with Di Maria and Mata who LvG haven't been afraid to bench, but not our captain.
 
To quote LVG "Carrick is also a captain" He has already backtracked on Rooney being undroppable which people like to forget
 
He benched his captain Mark Van Bommel at Bayern.

Rooney is only safe if he performs.
 
Iron Stove said:
He benched his captain Mark Van Bommel at Bayern.

Rooney is only safe if he performs.
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Aye, his status within the club might give him a wee bit of leeway, but if he continually performs underpar (which he hopefully won’t), then LVG will drop him.
 
Depends on the alternatives with regards to Rooney. When sir Alex had the alternatives he benched Rooney much to everyone's shock. Lvg can't bench him if we don't gave a suitable replacement, whether he's playing well or not. I don't think, if Lvg had a striker and a number 10 in red hot form, would keep playing an out of form Rooney.
 
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