Roberto De Zerbi

In terms of Potter, I do think that Chelsea was and still is the most difficult ‘big’ Premier League job for a youngish manager to walk into.

I do think he noticeably improved the team and took on them on from the Hughton, with both better results and more aesthetically pleasing football to watch, although of course during that period they often dominated games but lacked end product.

In terms of Brighton, the only really major error that Tony Bloom has made so far has been appointing Sami Hyypia right?
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
In terms of Potter, I do think that Chelsea was and still is the most difficult ‘big’ Premier League job for a youngish manager to walk into.

I do think he noticeably improved the team and took on them on from the Hughton, with both better results and more aesthetically pleasing football to watch, although of course during that period they often dominated games but lacked end product.

In terms of Brighton, the only really major error that Tony Bloom has made so far has been appointing Sami Hyypia right?
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Football Management is alot about man management. A young aspiring manager might have the tactical brain but seldom has the swagger and the CV to command respect from a big club with big players.

Moyes is a great example of that, everything he sets seems to be undermined by the players, for better for worse.

A Young Fergie without his pedigree would have been laughed of the park for selling Ince and the rest favouring the class of 92
 
It's very hard to quantify how much of an impact a manager has compared to structure etc.

There's no doubt Brighton are a fantastically run club these days, and I don't doubt the role that Bloom and the backroom staff and structure play.

At the same time I think some people are underestimating the difference a top coach / manager can make as well.

I look at Klopp at Liverpool. Do people think the genius there was Edwards and the transfer committee, or Klopp getting the best out of all those players? A very good coach / manager can turn the perception of a club on its head, from a club buying the likes of Balotelli, Sakho, Lambert, Markovic, Benteke etc deemed utter failures to a club signing Robertson, Mane, Wijnaldum deemed massive successes.

I think we are about to see a similar thing happening at Spurs, although I certainly don't think they will ever reach Liverpool heights, but I think Spurs would be a lot happier with 4th or 5th under the positivity of Ange than the same result under the negativity under Conte.

If the structure is there, then that's great, there's a tone already set at the club. If not, then the manager has to come in and set the tone, almost lift that club, lift that support, and carry it with them, like Klopp did. As much as Utd fans might not want to hear it, I'm just not sure ETH has ever had the personality to do that, and these days, players buy into personalities as much as anything else. Tactics are all well and good, but if your players aren't willing to run through brick walls for you, then if you come across another team that will, you'll get found out. Dutch fans in here warned everyone that ETH is a good coach, but 1 thing that was levelled at him in Holland was his accent / sort of monotone voice and the way he portrayed himself in interviews.

Sometimes that's all it takes for a manager. I look at the stick Emery took for 'Good Ebening', and a very highly rated coach is then demeaned, made a bit of a laughing stock in the media, that filters through to the players and it starts to unravel.

Now, whether De Zebri has that personality that could come in and lift Utd like I mentioned before, I'm not sure, but I think I'd bet on him more than ETH at this stage. I'd certainly take him at Arsenal in a heartbeat if Arteta doesn't work out. By the way, I also think Potter is a very good coach who was set up to fail at Chelsea. My main criticism of him is that he thought it was a good idea to take that job in the first place. Again though, I'm unsure if he could lift a club the way a Klopp can.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Seeing a lot of this on here and maybe it’s a defence mechanism for United fans because we want to believe that no top manager here can succeed with the glazers but this downplaying of De Zerbis impact is startling.
Brightons three league positions before De Zerbi - 15th/16th/9th. Goals scored 39/40/42.

De Zerbi first season 6th and 72 goals scored.
This myth that Brighton have been like this for years is a nonsense. They were never this good under Potter. He’s moved them away from a 532 to a 4231. They control games a lot more and are a lot more incisive in the final third. They play a lot less square balls under De Zerbi and take far more risks. They’ve improved significantly going forward and this was done without De Zerbi even signing a forward.
Between 2018 and 2021, Brighton were winning 9 games a season. They won 18 last season.

I’m sure @The Boy can elaborate further.
Its just insane though that Ten Hag was basically dubbed a miracle worker for finishing 3rd and winning a league cup last year when the same United team had finished 2nd/3rd two years earlier and haven’t been outside the top 6 in a decade. De Zerbi takes relegation flurters into the Top 6 in one season and gets them 30 more goals in the process and it’s downplayed because apparently Brighton have always been like this and potter was amazing. Da feck?
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I remember the fantasy premier league in the years Brighton had Maupay up top. They struggled so much with scoring.
it's impressive how that's changed with the manager change, who significantly built on the success that came before him. And yet mainstays of the team still remain, dunk, gross, solly.
they might very well be competing for UCL places this year.
 
Ludens the Red said:
De Zerbi first season 6th and 72 goals scored.
This myth that Brighton have been like this for years is a nonsense. They were never this good under Potter. He’s moved them away from a 532 to a 4231. They control games a lot more and are a lot more incisive in the final third. They play a lot less square balls under De Zerbi and take far more risks. They’ve improved significantly going forward and this was done without De Zerbi even signing a forward.
Between 2018 and 2021, Brighton were winning 9 games a season. They won 18 last season.

I’m sure @The Boy can elaborate further.
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No need to elaborate further, you've summed it up well.

Potter was extremely influential changing our style from the Hughton days, we moved from low block survival football to a far more expansive and progressive style. It was Potter that drilled the squad in keeping possession, but the change was a slow progress as you can see from our league positions. De Zerbi has built on that with steroids, the change in players like March is unbelievable and our attacking threat has gone from creating lots of chances but not taking them, to being utterly ruthless in fron of goal.

The players he has bought through as well have made a huge difference, it was De Zerbi that bought through Mitoma for instance and that was before Trossard left. He's been lucky with Ferguson as he has been raved about since we signed him amongst Brighton fans, but it's De Zerbi that has trusted him and given him a leading role.

Players like Dunk have spoken about how De Zerbi has changed his understanding of football, it's reminiscent of how the Arsenal players talked about Wenger when he first turned up at Highbury. This is De Zerbi's team and success but built on Potter's very strong foundations.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
De Zerbi is doing excellent for Brighton so far as a head coach, however without a good club structure he probably will struggle in United as well. ETH was excellent for Ajax just not too long ago.
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De Zerbi would be crushed under the pressure of managing at Utd, including the lack of a system that helps the manager succeed like other modern teams have (Brighton included). It can’t be a coincidence that manager after manager has failed here and ETH is going the same way, a list that includes Mourinho and LVG. We’re still under the Fergie mentality that one man can do it all, modern managers just aren’t built like that and there’s too much dynamics within teams now to leave everything to the manager.
 
redNATION said:
De Zerbi would be crushed under the pressure of managing at Utd, including the lack of a system that helps the manager succeed like other modern teams have (Brighton included). It can’t be a coincidence that manager after manager has failed here and ETH is going the same way, a list that includes Mourinho and LVG. We’re still under the Fergie mentality that one man can do it all, modern managers just aren’t built like that and there’s too much dynamics within teams now to leave everything to the manager.
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It's also possible that our managerial appointments so far have been poor.

Past-it managers in Mourinho and LVG and clearly non-elite managers in Moyes and Ole.

I think ETH is the first manager who's the required level and near his managerial prime. But evidently he fecked off Rangnick, so maybe he's not that smart either.
 
This thread has being top of the boards for days now. Its actualy laughable.

RDZ would absolutely struggle to command the absolute mess that is Manchester United. The pressure isnt anywhere near the same with Brighton, who are owner by a die hard local Brightonian.

People calling for him to replace ETH are so shortsighted.
 
MackRobinson said:
I would hire their head of recruitment or chief scout before even looking at their coach. Two years ago, Potter was the flavor of the month, and now it's the man who replaced him. Not saying it's impossible (Klopp/Tuchel) but there should be caution.
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The crazy thing is that they have had 3 different DoFs in the last 3 years or so. So even the DoF there is just a small part of the structure.

While like De Zerbi, I don’t have much doubt that their DoF is brilliant, the real difference makers are their CEO and their owner.
 
Lincm said:
I remember the fantasy premier league in the years Brighton had Maupay up top. They struggled so much with scoring.
it's impressive how that's changed with the manager change, who significantly built on the success that came before him. And yet mainstays of the team still remain, dunk, gross, solly.
they might very well be competing for UCL places this year.
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Yeah exactly, they’ve still had some utter shite in there and they’ve still got lots remaining from even Hughtons team.
This idea that Brighton have been smashing recruitment for years is a absolute nonsense. Its only really been recently that the full fruits have been seen. If you go a bit further back you’ll see some mediocre expensive signings like Izquierdo, Propper, Locadia, Andone, Jakanbaash clogging up their squad. Do the cafe think buying and shifting all that shite was part of the plan and ongoing running of the club?


The Boy said:
No need to elaborate further, you've summed it up well.

Potter was extremely influential changing our style from the Hughton days, we moved from low block survival football to a far more expansive and progressive style. It was Potter that drilled the squad in keeping possession, but the change was a slow progress as you can see from our league positions. De Zerbi has built on that with steroids, the change in players like March is unbelievable and our attacking threat has gone from creating lots of chances but not taking them, to being utterly ruthless in fron of goal.

The players he has bought through as well have made a huge difference, it was De Zerbi that bought through Mitoma for instance and that was before Trossard left. He's been lucky with Ferguson as he has been raved about since we signed him amongst Brighton fans, but it's De Zerbi that has trusted him and given him a leading role.

Players like Dunk have spoken about how De Zerbi has changed his understanding of football, it's reminiscent of how the Arsenal players talked about Wenger when he first turned up at Highbury. This is De Zerbi's team and success but built on Potter's very strong foundations.
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Yeah De Zerbi has knocked it out the ball park. I think United fans on here just see things far too much from the prism of United.
Potter did well and was a good manager and the recruitment has gone well (recently) but yeah De Zerbi is another level of coach and you’re just a much better team now.
 
What are people actually saying here? Everyone knows that the "system" and 'structure" at United are poor and the pressure is high. Does that then mean that no one should expect any serious results of a United manager until the structural deficiencies are addressed? If you can always point to some nebulous "structure", then the manager should be absolved, no?

Not to mention that no one actually knows with any real detail what actually goes on behind the scenes at these clubs. The only reason Brighton's structure is the talk of the town these days is because of the markedly improved results on the pitch. There is a bit of circularity here because there are very few other ways to assess how well run a club actually is in footballing terms except by reference to the results on the pitch, so the effectiveness of the structure can be self affirming if the results are good (unless you are Barca). Commercially, United still seems to be running like a juggernaut, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

People are creating an impossibly narrow window to navigate here for who could qualify to manage United. Pound-for-pound, De Zerbi is probably the most over-achieving manager in the league. What would he need to be deemed "worthy" in people's eyes? To win the league? Qualify for Champions League? Simply have more seasons of a similar, European-qualifying level of success? Right now he is swimming against the grain and punching above his weight. At the top of the table each successive improvement becomes increasingly harder, and therefore more impressive.

What profile of manager would people actually have? Someone with a confident disposition, but also proven. Someone with a sufficiently impressive resume of achievements that they command the respect of the dressing room, but not so old and set in their ways that they lack flexibility to adapt to the club, modern players and the tactical shifts of the league. Someone who has garnered good results, but good results independent of a good structure. Someone who can handle the pressure of a big job like United, but also someone willing to take over a mess of a situation.

Honestly who is this magical, unicorn, frankincense-farting managerial creature? I would like to meet him.
 
redNATION said:
De Zerbi would be crushed under the pressure of managing at Utd, including the lack of a system that helps the manager succeed like other modern teams have (Brighton included). It can’t be a coincidence that manager after manager has failed here and ETH is going the same way, a list that includes Mourinho and LVG. We’re still under the Fergie mentality that one man can do it all, modern managers just aren’t built like that and there’s too much dynamics within teams now to leave everything to the manager.
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In my opinion the so called "manager" job in EPL should rename as head coach, and just focus on managing the first team. The era of SAF and Wenger being THE football manager is gone. EPL clubs should follow the same structure like Bayern and Real Madrid.
 
It is amazing how Brighton manage to consistently play good football no matter who is in the starting 11, there should be no excuses from eth or fans when we are missing one or two main starting 11 players and don't perform well or get a result when Brighton can manage to turn up at old Trafford with a whole host of changes to their starting 11 from the previous game and still not miss a beat in implementing the style of play to a high standard.

You can put Brighton success down to how well run they are as a club but Brighton were definitely a level or two below under potter in terms of their status amongst the other side in the premier league, they have turned in to genuine contenders for europa/champions league spots now
 
This is what happens when you beat football. There’s nothing left to achieve.
 
Imagine the meltdown the caf would have if EtH lost the first group game to AEK in the Europa league. People really need to stop putting managers on a pedestal not named Pep
 
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Love the flip flopping. When they win he's brilliant but when they lose he's crap :lol:.
 
BoulderDevil said:
Imagine the meltdown the caf would have if EtH lost the first group game to AEK in the Europa league. People really need to stop putting managers on a pedestal not named Pep
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Well it wouldn't be ETH, it'd be the players. Why do football fans always point at the manager nowadays and tactics? Its players who play the games, not coaches.
 
I liked him until sections of our fan base started calling for us to sack EtH and replace him with de Zerbi, now i love to see them lose as an, A HA to those fans (which is really sad...)
 
Mb194dc said:
Brighton had two one on ones, surprised their xG is so low.
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Maybe xG recognises that one on ones are some of the most difficult situations in football. Especially the ones where you have a lot of time. You give a footballer more time to think, 99 times of a 100 he'll come up with something stupid.
 
Lee565 said:
It is amazing how Brighton manage to consistently play good football no matter who is in the starting 11, there should be no excuses from eth or fans when we are missing one or two main starting 11 players and don't perform well or get a result when Brighton can manage to turn up at old Trafford with a whole host of changes to their starting 11 from the previous game and still not miss a beat in implementing the style of play to a high standard.
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They’d spent the three seasons before RDZ transforming the style of football under Potter as manager and various other coaching and recruitment staff. He’s still done a brilliant job obviously, but ETH came into a situation where the club had had various tactical approaches. Whereas RDZ could build on what had preceded him.
 
De Zerbi's quirks would show up more at a big club. Today going away to Aston Villa and picking two small and slight CMs in a midfield 2 and then are 3-0 down before half-time. Some odd selections.
 
Revan said:
He is everything that United fans pretend EtH is.

Young (as in 44 vs 53), plays good attacking football (unlike us), tactically astute (unlike us) and seems to have built a well-coached team (unlike us).

If Pep leaves City, I can see City quickly getting him.
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Brighton fans pretend he is Emery.
 
Fecking typical. Won against us, lost 6-1 after that and against Villa out of all clubs. What a load of shite.
 
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