For all we know Bayern might not even want to pay €25m, they've not made a formal offer and it's not unthinkable that if they did, it'd be significantly lower than that.
Robert Lewandowski
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Players should forbid (if possible) their agents to talk to medias.At least to talk to them as openly as Lewandowski's agent did because it absolutely helps no one that these stories go out.A good agent is one to look out for his client in the most silent and efficient way possible.
This cretin Kucharski shouldn't be allowed to speak to anyone in his life, not press, not clubs, not players, not even his wife or random people on the street. He's a disgrace.
Is he worse than Kia Goorbachan?
Nah, Kia was worse than him to be fair. Kucharski's just an idiot who's trying to make a name for himself by all means necessary, Kia was evil.
Kia has toned down a bit over the last couple of years after the Teveth transfer. Looks like he has made enough money now to shut his gob.
The only ones coming out of this with any credibility are Dortmund. I hope they stick to their guns over this transfer to prove a point to players all over Europe. Player power has gone mad!
They offered Lewandowski a 2-year extension until 2016 with €4m a year and a €30m release clause last year but his camp declined saying that Dortmund aren't big enough for Lewandowski. He's now going to play another season on less than €1.5m a year looking like a cnut.
I think they increased their offer to ~€6m at the beginning of the season.
Possibly but he wasn't interested in renewing at that point either. I remember that a few months after he had joined Dortmund both he and his agent started to talk about how Lewandowski is going to play for a much bigger club in the future - possibly even Bayern or Manchester United. It pissed me off from the start because you don't join a club that has attendances of 80k week in week out and then tell them that they're too small for you.
The way they've constantly made it all about them in the Polish media is frankly pathetic, Błaszczykowski and Piszczek could easily move to another league and probably earn a lot more than they do at Dortmund but they've both been very professional and thankful towards Klopp who nurtured them for the last 3 years and improved both significantly. Lewandowski has no gratitude or respect towards Dortmund, he feels he's much better than that.
I bring it up because that is the truth. Clubs look at finances and long term prospects. That is why Arsenal, a much bigger club than yours, has to sell its players at the right price when they demand a move. Even a club as big as ours had to sell Ronaldo to Real, even when Sir Alex in the past said, “we won’t sell the mob a virus”. It doesn't take solid finances to turn bad. The goal is to tighten them when you have the opportunity.
Just because you think it’s nonsense and post some drivel, doesn’t make it nonsense. That is the harsh truth. €20m-€25m is around 1/7th of the total revenue of your club last season. You think that’s peanuts?
That is why you invest the money wisely and buy depth. Not hold on to the player for another year and let them leave for free next season to make a statement.
IMO, rather than risk having an unhappy player in the squad and lose out on the money, the long term thing will be to use the money to buy another striker who wants to play for the badge.
It is relevant because they are a growing club and the past is a window to the future. I would be deligthed if their boses do well in the market and buy depth. The Lewandoski money will help them towards that and I am sure they are wise enough not to hold an unhappy player. The only thing they might avoid is to sell him to Bayern.
A sustained challenge from Dortmund will good for the Bundesliga, which has been a one team league in the past.
It is rational for them not to sell him to Bayern but if anyone else comes in I have no doubt that they’ll let him go. The recent statements from Zorc have only mentioned Bayern as the only club to whom they won’t sell him this summer.
I mentioned the same in the last line of post #1995.
That is a very good thought in theory. However, unless serious structural changes are brought in one team trying to prove a point with one player is not going to change anything.
How are Arsenal a much bigger club than Dortmund? Smaller stadium, less trophies, worse team, less successful recently.
Really?
If you are serious, you'll have to wait till tomorrow for my answer. I have done enough essay writing for the day.
In the meantime, you can always use google and help yourself.
If you are serious, you'll have to wait till tomorrow for my answer. I have done enough essay writing for the day.
In the meantime, you can always use google and help yourself.
Apart from them playing in the amazing Premier League that apparently shits all over every other league that ever existed, they don't really have much going for them compared to Dortmund, unless we measure the club by the money they make in which case I believe even that's going to be pretty close for this year.
Arsenal for some reason (stadium?!) seem to be forced to generate a massive transfer surplus, thus actually needing the money from sales. That's not the case for Dortmund anymore, they can (net) spend. Lewandowski would be sold for half his value, Ronaldo was sold for the highest transfer fee ever, not exactly comparable.
I told you: the club has to pay taxes and they have an opportunity cost of around €5m because the next striker will probably earn around €6-7m. So if Bayern offers them €20m they have to pay taxes and then lose another €5m because of wages, reducing their net gain to something below €15m which is peanuts for a striker like Lewandowski in my opionion. The market does not offer them a suitable replacement either, so they'd be forced to overpay or buy a player they don't really want, further lowering the gain of that transfer.
The money is a secondary issue here. What will make or break a deal is the question if they find a suitable player to replace him.
Lewandowski had a similar situation with Lech before he left for Germany. Didn't stop him from playing a good season. Moreover it's up to the officials to judge his character in that regard.
'Investing the money wisely' would mean what? Signing Dzeko and completely ruin the wage structure? Signing Benteke for €30m or more? Signing Martinez for €40m? Signing some unknown player and hope it turns out well?
And what does the past tell you about Dortmund when you look out that window? Dortmund's development has been a huge surprise every year. They have established a certain basis by now, but their future offers a lot of possibilities. 5 years ago they were a midtable side with a lot of debts hanging over their head, now they probably have a sustained turnover of close to €200m as long as they don't feck up in an incredible way.
So it is rational if they don't want to sell to for lets say €25m to Bayern, but if they don't want to sell him for the same amount to a different club it's stupid, because apparently they need the money and keeping an unhappy player? Also they explicitly mentioned Bayern because according to Lewandowski that's the only club he wants to go to and according to one of his agents he already has an agreement in place with them.
I'd say let's offer him a good contract and Dortmund the 25m € they want under the condition that he fires his agents because I don't want these idiots anywhere near our club.
Maybe Dortmund would even accept 20m € for him just for not having to sell him to Bayern.
Maybe Dortmund would even accept 20m € for him just for not having to sell him to Bayern.
Shinjisan is having a mare in this thread. If you can't recognise/appreciate what someone with a different viewpoint is saying, you might as well shut up. You need to open your mind mate. Stop getting caught up in the 'truth'.
a question no one who is keen on Lewandowski has answered, is just how will we fit him in?
We tend to play one main striker, so do you think we'd rotate VP and him, or play VP deeper?
And then where do Rooney or Kagawa fit in?
We tend to play one main striker, so do you think we'd rotate VP and him, or play VP deeper?
And then where do Rooney or Kagawa fit in?
We won't, that's why we aren't buying him.
If Fergie has taught us anything it's that you never can have enough quality strikers.
I don't think for a second we're getting him, but someone would be on their way out if he came. This is one time it would be one striker too many. I'm sure David Moyes is ridiculously excited about the fact that he's finally going to have quality players in each position to rotate but keeping Lewandowski, Rooney, RvP, Hernandez, Kagawa and Welbeck all happy would be mission impossible.
Hans off! Bayern president Uli Hoeness chats to Lewandowski after the European Cup Final - as Manchester United chief exec David Gill looks on
This picture is awesome!
Is that SAF behind Gill trying to get a peek?
Yes it is. Gill looks like Sir Alex's minder there - nobody's getting near the Boss.
What a picture. Tells the whole story.Great picture.
I took the liberty of combining the whole thing as the multi-quotes were getting messy. Hopefully, I addressed all your points in the post below.
Also, contrary to what the village idiot says in a couple of posts above, I hope you understand that this is a discussion and I am not trying to prove a point to you.
I think there are a few wrong premises in your posts above.
(1) BVB does not have a sustained turnover of €200m. In fact, they have never even crossed the €200m mark till date.
(2) You are not looking at the tax deduction the right way. A club is taxed on the actual profits made not on every individual transfer. If BVB utilize the money from his sale towards the club than they won’t be paying taxes as you mentioned.
(3) I have never read Lewandoski mention that Bayern is his only club of choice. In the interviews and quotes I have read, he has always avoided the questions on his transfer speculation.
(4) You are assuming that a player with one year left on his contract, and one who wants to leave, is somehow undervalued at around €25m. IMO, that figure is neither his half value nor peanuts. I am sure most will agree.
BVB’s revnues at the end of the last 4 seasons are as follows:
(1) 2008-2009: €105m (Finished 6th in the league)
(2) 2009-2010: <€109.4m (Aston Villa was the 20th place club with €109.4m) (5th in the league)
(3) 2010-2011: €138.5m (First time they won the league since 2001)
(4) 2011-2012: €189.1m (Won the league & Champions League qualification)
I wouldn't call that a sustained turnover of €200m. Those are the revenue figures of a growing club, tied to their recent success. In the same period Liverpool without winning much and only one champions league qualification had revenues of €217m, €225.3m, €203.3m, €233.2m. Which is a sustained revenue stream.
You are right when you say that five years back they were a mid-table side and since then success has been phenomenal. However the thing to look at is how was the success built. It was built on the back of players from the academy excelling, cheap buys in the market turning out to be excellent and a brilliant manager who brought out the best in them. All things falling in place at the same time. They didn't spend a lot in the market and only had to pay modest wages. A couple of years ago they could take a punt of on a Japanese player from the J-league for €300k or a Polish lad from Lech Poznan, paying them decent wages.
Things have changed now, have you considered the increased expenses due to the all new contracts that are being handed out to the likes of Subotic, Hummels, Gundogan, Piszczek etc.? What about the new players coming in? Will they come on the same wages as BVB were paying earlier? Can they afford to take punts on players as they did the last few years or will they have to go for more established players now? Will the next batch from the academy be as talented as Gotze, Sahin, Rues etc.? Can they compete with Bayen now by taking more risks with players when Bayern can spend close to €40m on Martinez, Gotze etc. every window without breaking a sweat? They obviously will need increased depth in the squad. How will that affect the operating expenses? What about new personnel to explore marketing potential of this new success? Will you have a Kagawa or Gotze to sell every year to boost the revenues?
Maintaining success is harder than getting there in the first place. They’ll have to make prudent decisions both commercially and financially, on and off the pitch. Selling an unhappy player when you can get a decent sum from his sale is far more canny then trying to make a statement. At least in my book. You can obviously beg to differ.
Exactly what I was about to ask, it has to be him.
It looks like him. I think it is him.
Must be SAF since he was the one who presented the MOTM trophy to Robben a little later.
There revenue will extend the 200 million EUR line by far this season because of increased commercial deals and the income they had with the Champions League. I would even say it is more close to 250 million than to 200.
But yes, they have to deal with the usual problems the other big clubs have to more than ever. If you want to improve your personal there is no cheap solutions. The expectations are high and their is no time to let young and inexperienced players grow. Actually - the second string of young players they tried last season did not work - Leitner gets loaned to Stuttgart, Bittencourt will probably leave to Hannover, Schieber is just a failure.
On the market they remark that the "established" talents get hunted by all the big clubs - who all pay decent wages...
But yes, they have to deal with the usual problems the other big clubs have to more than ever. If you want to improve your personal there is no cheap solutions. The expectations are high and their is no time to let young and inexperienced players grow. Actually - the second string of young players they tried last season did not work - Leitner gets loaned to Stuttgart, Bittencourt will probably leave to Hannover, Schieber is just a failure.
On the market they remark that the "established" talents get hunted by all the big clubs - who all pay decent wages...
So Bild reporting that Lewnadowski got a wage raise from 1.5m € pa to 4.5m € pa to keep him happy staying at Dortmund next season.
Sounds like a bullshit deal to if you ask me, why throw money at a player that you know will leave at the end of the season anyway for free?
Lewandowski and his advisors put their money on the wrong horse and now they have to live with the consequences, would be idiotic to reward them for their stupidity.
Sounds like a bullshit deal to if you ask me, why throw money at a player that you know will leave at the end of the season anyway for free?
Lewandowski and his advisors put their money on the wrong horse and now they have to live with the consequences, would be idiotic to reward them for their stupidity.
Shinjisan, just reference me by name. No need to couch it under "village idiot"
What is the wrong consequence for Lewandoski or his advisor? If true, they get paid more and pick their choice of club next season without the hassle of a transfer fee. Will make up for the money in the next contract.
Stupid, if true. Win win for Lewandoski and his agent.
Stupid, if true. Win win for Lewandoski and his agent.
They won't make up a difference of €7m in wages he could have got during the last two years if he'd signed a new improved deal, if he goes to Bayern next Summer he'll probably get a €5m - €6m a year deal he'd have got this year. They don't care much about anything else than money so missing out on €3m or €4m will be very depressing for them.
Arsenal haven't won less trophies than Dortmund.
Citeh have now apparently thrown their hat into the ring,as expected.
Dortmund have won less league titles but they've won the biggest trophy there is - Champions League (1997). And in recent times (last 20 years) they've won league just as many times if not more.
Source? And don't say "twitter"..
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