According to this he's played 2 games as a defensive mid and 2 games as a centre mid in the CL. That's where he played for Portugal a few days ago too. Certainly not remotely comparable to Robben, van Persie, Scholes, Giggs or Bale. Regardless of where he specifically plays in midfield, the point was there are lots of great midfielders that weren't famed for their technique at a young age and even at their peak. People like to define positions in really specific ways these days so perhaps you don't agree, but I'd call Davids a defensive midfielder. Davids' physique, tenacity, urgency and drive significantly overshadowed his technique and he played in the same areas as Renato Sanches. That's not to say that Davids was technically weak or that Renato Sanches is the next Davids, but your initial point about technique was designed in a way that Renato Sanches would always look inferior...which is kinda weird. I don't think he looks that great but I don't know why anyone would want to compare him to Giggs besides creating an irrelevant point of criticism.
Renato Sanches
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
- Start date
- Status
According to this he's played 2 games as a defensive mid and 2 games as a centre mid in the CL. That's where he played for Portugal a few days ago too. Certainly not remotely comparable to Robben, van Persie, Scholes, Giggs or Bale. Regardless of where he specifically plays in midfield, the point was there are lots of great midfielders that weren't famed for their technique at a young age and even at their peak. People like to define positions in really specific ways these days so perhaps you don't agree, but I'd call Davids a defensive midfielder. Davids' physique, tenacity, urgency and drive significantly overshadowed his technique and he played in the same areas as Renato Sanches. That's not to say that Davids was technically weak or that Renato Sanches is the next Davids, but your initial point about technique was designed in a way that Renato Sanches would always look inferior...which is kinda weird. I don't think he looks that great but I don't know why anyone would want to compare him to Giggs besides creating an irrelevant point of criticism.
http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/03/21/scout-report-renato-sanches-benficas-energetic-midfielder/
These guys give a more detailed review of Sanchez which resonates with what majority of the posters that have watched him. He is pure athleticism but that's it!
These guys give a more detailed review of Sanchez which resonates with what majority of the posters that have watched him. He is pure athleticism but that's it!
I'd still take Redondo/Busquets/De Rossi/Martinez over Makélélé/Mascherano/Emerson/Albelda/etc. Technique isn't that vague a concept imo, but I agree that obviously it is most important to be effective regardless.
Maybe my memory is completely fecked up, but Edgar Davids was spotless technically. Sanches really looks like Khedira.
Edit: Here you can see a 20 years old Davids
This is almost identical to the Lukaku thread until around mid January.
Technique this, physical advatages start to diminish and exposes weakness that...now look.
Technique this, physical advatages start to diminish and exposes weakness that...now look.
Spotless technically? I don't agree at all and I don't think that's an accurate representation of a typical Davids performance. This gives a much more complete overview of him at his peak and while he wasn't poor, I wouldn't describe it as spotless either. Speak would probably point out him running into players and losing the ball, "loose" touches, jumping weirdly and misplacing a few simple passes.
If you compare him to Seedorf, never mind Bergkamp, it seems a bit of a stretch to describe him as technically flawless. Not technically limited by any stretch of course.
No way did anyone ever see Bale turning into the monster that he did. From a LB to an attacking player that could score rockets, dribble from his own half and convince Real Madrid to pay a world record fee for him?
Could you see Ronaldo honing in his finishing to a level where he can score more goals than games played?
Exactly, I don't know what Davids people remember but the one I remember had some serious tekkers, I mean serious tekkers. It's lazy comparison just because of the hair and skin tone. And he's nothing like Seedorf either
. Maybe they will try for Taribo West next!In the context of a 90s DM he was spotless and when you compare him to Sanches there is a world between them.
I recall watching Davids freestyle back in the 90s. He was amazing.
Compared to Redondo his technique was at least a couple of levels below. Davids probably had more flair, in fairness, but when it comes to the most basic form of technique he just didn't have that level of close control, touch or passing. Not even close. I don't care much about Sanches but my point was more general about the technical requirements of a defensive midfielder being miles apart from the technical requirements of a playmaker, winger or striker, which I'm sure we can both agree on. Everything else is just nitpicking.
There are plenty of teams doing very well in the Premier league this season with midfielders who are not technical superstars. Pace, physicality, energy and tenacity are all more valuable in England than around Europe, especially in the middle.
But, only if the team plays that way. Sanches would be utterly useless in an LVG side, because LVG takes all of the pace out of the game. There's no point in having huge athleticism if everything is designed to be played at walking pace. I think it's one of the reasons Schneiderlein has struggled - he thrived at Southampton playing in a very combative team, which had lots of transitions and for want of a better word, chaos. Leicester are pretty good at that too, obviously.
So if we do sign him, I expect it to be for a different manager. I can't imagine what LVG would do with him.
But, only if the team plays that way. Sanches would be utterly useless in an LVG side, because LVG takes all of the pace out of the game. There's no point in having huge athleticism if everything is designed to be played at walking pace. I think it's one of the reasons Schneiderlein has struggled - he thrived at Southampton playing in a very combative team, which had lots of transitions and for want of a better word, chaos. Leicester are pretty good at that too, obviously.
So if we do sign him, I expect it to be for a different manager. I can't imagine what LVG would do with him.
I'm not even talking about the level they reached. Nobody saw Ronaldo scoring more than a goal a game.
I'm talking about the skills they show. bale has always had a great long range shot. I just took a look at his Southampton goals, and he scored four or five free kicks for Southampton in one season. Plus a few other long-rangers/free kicks for Wales. Soon after joining Tottenham, he scored a typical Bale goal on the break, he scored another free kick, and one where he took it round the keeper (in the same way we've seen him do many times)
He honed that long-range shooting ability he already had, and honed that ability to knock the ball past people at speed.
Obviously he's surpassed most people's expectations, but he was scoring from range as a 16/17/18 year old.
As for Ronaldo, he showed aerial threat and a great leap from day one (one of his first goals was a header.) He had an amazing ability to shoot with little back lift. Quick feet and dribbling. I think he'd have scored loads from day one, if he'd been more as a forward and less as a winger. He also used to strike the ball with dip and venom as a youngster, so it's no surprise. He's still not the most clinical finisher around, despite his goals.
Typically, the goals a player scores in his prime will be the same style as the ones they scored as a youngster. They score using the same skills they've always used.
Sometimes they lose a skill (Rooney didn't score many dribbled goals like before, even in his best seasons) but it's rare that players suddenly just develop a skill from an average level.
Last edited:
The way I see it, you scout a player with a role in mind. You don't look at a player and try to find the perfect specimen, so we agree on the fact that Sanches not being a technical beast isn't a deal breaker. Now the real problem is that his five months of professional football are too small to make an accurate projection, him being mainly a physical beast is a problem because in the PL he will face other physical beast.
And in general, if we have the ambition to be a top team and depending on their roles our players need to be either technical and intelligent, physical and intelligent, technical and physical or technical, physical and intelligent, we can't sign a player who only has one of those attributes.
A player whose effectiveness depends strongly on the system should never be signed to start off with. You then end up with clowns on internet forums writing essays on why the manager is a fool for not getting the best out of so and so when he's sooooo good technically. Bah.
It is very vague. Why is Mascherano considered technically inferior to De Rossi? He's able to do everything he should be doing without looking an inch of out of place. Let me put it this way. Many think Scholes is the better playing technically (whatever the feck that means) but give me Roy Keane over him every single day of the week.
The difference in the arguments from what I can see isn't solid technique vs great technique, it's that Sanches technique is poor and in any position that is a hindrance to being a top player. His hype is based off his physical attributes which are impressive no doubt, but he is so raw that he isn't worth the kind of first team money being touted and there are better young CM's out there that need less refining.
Our midfield is screaming for an injection of brute power, and this kid seems to have bags of it. His technique is average, but I think it could be enough to play a defensive/supportive role. My doubts around this signing are mainly about the price, because we don't know the exact numbers but I'm hearing Benfica sharpening the axes.
If we could sign him for a reasonable fee I'd give it a try, he looks a determined guy and seems to have a strong mentality, it's not just physical strength. But I don't find reasonable to pay +35/40 M., just to eat miles and play it simple. I'm sure there's more defined and experienced players out there who can perform that role for half of that money. I'd keep an eye on him for the future, but nothing more by the moment.
If we could sign him for a reasonable fee I'd give it a try, he looks a determined guy and seems to have a strong mentality, it's not just physical strength. But I don't find reasonable to pay +35/40 M., just to eat miles and play it simple. I'm sure there's more defined and experienced players out there who can perform that role for half of that money. I'd keep an eye on him for the future, but nothing more by the moment.
He has improved from last season but still hasn't returned to the form he displayed under Leonardo Jardim´s management. At least at club level. In last years U21 Euro, he was the player of the tournament and put up an incredible performance against Germany and owned England's midfield (which isn't saying much though due to the lack of quality of England's performers). He has been average with the occasional good performance. Tbf to him, he played with an injury during the U21 Euro and then in pre season he got seriously injured missing some months. Lack of pre season/plus the injury had some influence in his physical condition during our campaign. He renewed his contract recently. He still atracts alot of interest. He won't be going to Russia. In fact i'd bet he will end up in England.
Thanks.
Ah, thank you! Phew!
Everyone needs to shut up. This is the real reason we are going to buy him. He will help us buy ronaldo using his magnificent hair.
Everyone needs to shut up. This is the real reason we are going to buy him. He will help us buy ronaldo using his magnificent hair.
Probably asking him how often he washes his hair.
As technically deficient as he may or may not be, we genuinely need some physicality and energy in midfield. His type of player is required.
At the prices being touted I'd rather we look elsewhere especially after considering some of the money we've wasted at LVG's urging. We need to hire a new manager and proceed on his advice regarding this and any other transfer.
Quaresma can't talk, look at his hair! Nah, but Renato does have the coolest hair... ever!
If we are after that type of player I think Kante offers everything Sanches does but is better on the ball and also PL tested.
Agreed. Like I said my point wasn't really related to Sanches it just happened to be in that discussion. This guy might be good but he doesn't look that impressive at the moment.
Haha so many so called 'experts' this is literally exactly like the martial signing. This is what Utd is all about, signing top talents, some work some don't but if you don't want that from the club go support city.
I said to the caf that Martial was the real deal, I don't see any portuguese fans say that Sanches is the real deal, the reality is that Sanches started his career in November that alone should stop the hype.
Because we have an inordinate amount of professional scouts who post on here obviously.
The amount on here screaming about Martials price was priceless.
United is about spending £40M on a player who has spent 5 months playing senior football? That's news to me. Plenty on here knew about Martial and rated his potential, this revisionism to try and justify Sanches is weak. People are posting off watching him play, Benfica's games are not exactly hard to come by.
Hmm.. Struggle to appreciate posts like this to be honest. It's natural for people to discuss players we're linked with (whether the initial impression is overwhelmingly positive or otherwise is beside the point). That's what a public forum is for - and calls for 'supporting City' just because there are concerns (particularly in terms of quality, relative to the purported fee) do sound a bit daft/ hyperbolic; as do comments starting with 'haha' and suchlike, and sly allusions to 'expert' status. Martial seems to be the new albatross for every expensive youngster working out well, instead of an anomaly - which he was/is.
Martial and Guardiola, it worked once ergo it'll work every time!
For one we have no idea what the so called price might be so anyone talking about it is premature. Moan about it if/when it happens not before based on bullshit papers. You can say all you like about people rating martial before but that's revisionism tbh, I remember reading that forum and the majority of people in there we moaning about the price in the exact same way as this. Some people in here ( including myself) have never seen sanches play so how can you judge him?. Why not start from a position of positivity that our scouts got martial right and they might be correct here as well? Oh yeh I remember everyone at our club is incompetent and we are becoming Liverpool....
Hmm I struggle to appreciate posts like this to be honest, because none of us here are paid scouts and the ones that are are paid to make better evaluations than we ever could. So those who say dont buy this player or that deserve the same criticism they levy on those that are paid to scout this player or that.
I've seen people saying sanches is the real deal just like I've seen with martial, but in the exact same way there were more people moaning about the price and that is the exact same here. I can completely understand the opinion of those that watch him for full games every week as they see him in all contexts but there are plenty in here forming opinions based on clips and preconceived ideas about technique. I have no idea if he's the correct player (I'm not a bloody scout) but I for one actually trust one of the biggest clubs in the world to have better scouts than the caf. Sure you don't get everyone right but why not give them the benefit of the doubt and start form a position of excitement and positivity. That's what it means to me when Utd sign a young played regardless of price because you can see them develop into world class players of our own.
Exactly this thankyou. Too many 'experts' talking about things they don't even begin to understand.
What makes you think that United scouts think that he is in Martial's bracket? It could be him, it could be Guedes, it could be a strong interest for the future, it could be simple curiosity.
- Status