Renato Sanches joins Bayern

[starman]

So they spent around £27m as a base fee with potentially £35m in bonus, over 6 years?

Thats a pretty good deal if they end up paying all that. Theres bound to a be a few champions leagues in there.

 

[mav_9me]

I'm not sure that's efficiency. Bit of a gamble if anything.

Having said that Bayern swooping in like this is impressive for sure.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Why the hell are some of our 'fans' attacking Di Marzio on Twitter just because Sanches went to Bayern? Jesus, some of our fans are absolute pillocks at times.

He was impressed with The Allianz Arena it appears. Why? Because it can change colour? I can understand why he went there. They cannot help but win something and they know who their manager next season will be. Wonder what put him off us?

 

[Bojan11]

Great post.

Although i'm upset we lost out on him (if we were indeed ever in for him) his growth at Bayern will be almost expected, whereas we have different expectations and pressure due to our recent decline.

Nonetheless, Bayern continue to be the team to emulate & aspire towards.

Martial and Shaw say otherwise.

Why would he get better coaching at Bayern? He will get to play with better teamsand under better manager if LVG stays. But Shaw and Martial haven't looked bad under LVG.

 

[siw2007]

Wow, this came out of nowhere. I don't know how much our interest was concrete but I was certain we would eventually get him. I am a little disappointed we didn't get to watch him with us next year but I get why the club were perhaps a little reluctant with the fee, but it goes to show that if you really want a player then you have got to be really decisive and I think that's what tipped it in Bayern's favour.

 

[Sly]

So they spent around £27m as a base fee with potentially £35m in bonus, over 6 years?

Thats a pretty good deal if they end up paying all that. Theres bound to a be a few champions leagues in there.

The main bulk of these bonus objectives it's Renato Sanches winning the FIFA World Player of the year and him being picked for the UEFA team of the year. Not easy objectives to achieve but i guess if he does end up achieving those Bayern will have to pay decent ammounts.

 

[R'hllor]

I don't really get this though. Are you saying we weren't efficient in previous seasons ? There were rumours (not even rumours, van Gaal said it himself) that memphis was bound for PSG. 24 Hours later, he signs for us. The Moment it was known Falcao was available, we concluded a loan deal which included a lengthy and stringent medical just to make sure the Player was physically fit again inside 24-48 hours. Once we failed in our bids for Neymar, we wrapped up a deal for Martial again inside 24-36 hours.

When we really want a player that badly, we are pretty much the king of efficiency in my opinion.

Way too much of an over-reaction here.

Ehm no? Just saying that this deal between Sanchez and Bayern isnt an example of Bayern`s efficiency,where we should learn something from them etc.

 

[simonhch]

Let's face it, only a matter of time until we wake up to the "Mourinho signs for xyz" headlines, and we rue more dithering by the club.

 

[Ferguson]

Look on the bright side. Got this one sorted early rather than draggin' it out like Thiago Alcantera

 

[Van Piorsing]

Look on the bright side. Got this one sorted early rather than draggin' it out like Thiago Alcantera

Indeed. Another bright thing is that we have even more confirmations that not many things changed since Thiago's move.

 

[Loon]

I have no real idea, but I always get the impression Bayern are a much better run outfit than us.

 

[Sly]

Let's face it, only a matter of time until we wake up to the "Mourinho signs for xyz" headlines, and we rue more dithering by the club.

There are some rumours/reports here in Portugal of problems between Mourinho/United, Mendes/United because of this deal. If you get in the wrong end with Mendes expect a busy summer De Gea wise.

 

[RedRover]

Only if you are completely sure that they are going to make it, or if you can get them on cheap. Spending that much money on them is bad, in any other circumstance.

If the 80m price is true, then you can add an extra bit and get Pogba, who is already a top player. Or you can even tempt Madrid for Kroos, who IMO is exactly what we need. Even 45m euros seems to much for me.

What Bayern does is a bit irrelevant IMO. They have this reputation of being the perfectly managed team (and they are very well managed), but they make a ton of errors like any other club. Maybe Sanches will work, maybe not, and I actually have no idea on that, but I can understand United's position for not wanting to spend all these money in a gamble, especially after all the money that we spent, we are still in a mess.

This summer window IMO should be all about quick fixes, and so proven players. Go for the likes of Griezmann, Ibra, Godin, Koke, Kroos and similar, and hope to get some of them. We have already a very good bunch of kids who can become top players, so for the moment we need to complement it with already top players (something that we are severely lacking on), because we cannot afford an another season or two like the last three seasons.

You can never be sure if any player (established or otherwise) will make it, nor can you be sure he won't walk in front of a bus the week after you sign him or get irreversibly crocked in a pre-season game. Identifying talented you players is clearly not something that comes without risks - and something that any top club (especially the likes of United who seemingly pride themselves on giving young players a chance) should be well capable of doing.

What Bayern are doing is perfectly relevant when they're signing players we're seemingly very interested in (and have spent months scouting) if it's occurred by virtue of their rolling in and getting the deal done in double quick time while United have been sat on their backsides.

And talking about sums of money is irrelevant - we're supposed to be rolling in money of you believe what the club says. If we believed he's a quality player, for now or the future, then transfers that require us to pay lucrative sums if and when they meet various clauses should hold no fear - especially since we did just that for Martial.

It seems very much to me that there's a good chance that the actual situation is that we've been blind-sided by a more impressive and more professional outfit who know how to get deals over the line.

As it stands the talk of those players you mention is nothing but wishful thinking. Why would they want to leave top quality CL sides and indeed turn down other top quality sides even if they do) to come and play here under Van Gaal? Unless there are big changes here we've got no chance of signing players like that.

 

[Devil may care]

Maybe we wanted joao Mario instead?

Hopefully, he's better developed and more versatile.

 

[Norris]

Ehm no? Just saying that this deal between Sanchez and Bayern isnt an example of Bayern`s efficiency,where we should learn something from them etc.

Then fine. I absolutely agree with you on that.

 

[RedRover]

There are some rumours/reports here in Portugal of problems between Mourinho/United, Mendes/United because of this deal. If you get in the wrong end with Mendes expect a busy summer De Gea wise.

We'll struggle to keep De Gea anyway. You can see why he'd want to move to Madrid - a huge club and close to his family. If the release clause is there then why wouldn't they activate it and why wouldn't he want to go?

 

[JustAFan]

Ehm no? Just saying that this deal between Sanchez and Bayern isnt an example of Bayern`s efficiency,where we should learn something from them etc.

Do we know for sure when they started negotiations?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What is worrying me about this, isn't that this boy didn't sign, but because of the criticism that Woodward is getting he will spend the summer going after a big name, that will not join us. Instead of going after what we actually need. Just to prove to everyone that he is the big I am.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We'll struggle to keep De Gea anyway. You can see why he'd want to move to Madrid - a huge club and close to his family. If the release clause is there then why wouldn't they activate it and why wouldn't he want to go?

Then we are in trouble, because would you trust LvG chosing a goalkeeper? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.
Just realised I am a doom-monger.

 

[Attila]

What is worrying me about this, isn't that this boy didn't sign, but because of the criticism that Woodward is getting he will spend the summer going after a big name, that will not join us. Instead of going after what we actually need. Just to prove to everyone that he is the big I am.

I think the manager decides the transfer targets not Woodward

 

[worldinmotion66]

I think this kid is the real deal, think pace and energy is becoming more and more important in central midfield and now Bayern have two incredible engines in there. I'm sure he will learn a lot from Vidal.

Can't blame us for the hesitation though, it's a lot of money and we still have a whole summer of big decisions ahead. You can't really sanction a big outlay like that without knowing if you have CL football, and the player would probably have wanted to wait for that outcome also.

 

[Sly]

We'll struggle to keep De Gea anyway. You can see why he'd want to move to Madrid - a huge club and close to his family. If the release clause is there then why wouldn't they activate it and why wouldn't he want to go?

Aye you are right mate. But Navas will put up a MoM performance in the Champions League final and Real Madrid will give up on him for United benefit One can hope

 

[Stacks]

They really are a beautifully run club. Taking care of business, no fuss, no bull.

How many Academy players do they field these days?

 

[Revan]

You can never be sure if any player (established or otherwise) will make it, nor can you be sure he won't walk in front of a bus the week after you sign him or get irreversibly crocked in a pre-season game. Identifying talented you players is clearly not something that comes without risks - and something that any top club (especially the likes of United who seemingly pride themselves on giving young players a chance) should be well capable of doing.

You cannot be sure, but you can be very close to being sure. For example, De Bruyne was as a sure signing as you can get, while someone like Martial/Memphis is more risky. It is quite a simple concept.

What Bayern are doing is perfectly relevant when they're signing players we're seemingly very interested in (and have spent months scouting) if it's occurred by virtue of their rolling in and getting the deal done in double quick time while United have been sat on their backsides.

Or an example of media knowing feck all and inventing stories about United (something that happens regularly with Portuguese players). Or us not being convinced with him. Or us being able to pay 30m, but not 80m for an 18 years old player. Or him wanting to go to Bayern. Or our new manager not wanting him.

And talking about sums of money is irrelevant - we're supposed to be rolling in money of you be;lieve what the club says. If we believed he's a quality player, for now or the future, then transfers that require us to pay lucrative sums if and when they meet various clauses should hold no fear - especially since we did just that for Martial.

It isn't irrelevant at all. We have a limited sum of money that comes from revenue. We have to fix other positions which might be more urgent. Assuming that we will spend a lot of money on an attacker, right winger and a defender, we maybe didn't have 80m or so, to spend in an 18 years old midfielder who has played for half a season. Bayern on the other hand don't have to fix their attack, so probably they had more money to spend on him than us.

It seems very much to me that there's a good chance that the actual situation is that we've been blind-sided by a more impressive and more professional outfit who know how to get deals over the line.

As it stands the talk of those players you mention is nothing but wishful thinking. Why would they want to leave top quality CL sides and indeed turn down other top quality sides even if they do) to come and play here under Van Gaal? UNness there are big changes here we've got no chance of signing players like that.

It could be a lot of things, but us being idiots and getting blind-sided isn't one of those things. Since Moyes was sacked, we have been very efficient in transfers. We signed a lot of players while no-one in the media was having a clue that we were doing so, and we did some complicated transfers for a relatively short time. If we were convinced that Sanches is that great/worthy of the money Benfica was asking, I think that we would have done this signing a couple of months ago (providing that Bayern really went to sign him just a couple of days ago, which IMO is total bullshit).

Moral of the story: chill out.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I must admit, I'm pretty sad about this. Sanches will be a top player in a few years, we'll be looking at him in a similar way to Pogba. I reckon he'll be better though.

 

[NJM78]

I think the reactions by many who wanted him are just due to the state we are in playing and the manager is not exactly filling us with real hope right now, especially when it is reported that we have scouted a player over 20 times and tweets from the likes of Di Marzio saying he was really close to signing for us and then today saying that Bayern came in really late and didn't feck about kind of shows us again in a negative light.
I think if we were playing and being managed like a Bayern for example and we missed out on a player we'd all be like, whatever there are more players out there plus we already have a world class squad to challenge for all honors but I just think a lot of us are a bit sick and tired of the shite being played by a squad devoid of any real world class talent (apart form De Gea) and a manager being so useless that we are actually regressing points and goals wise this season.
In all honesty we look miles off being an elite club in Europe again at present so being a tad over reactive to what seems like the club being a bit shit again is fine by me but then again I would not be wholly surprised if we miss out on 5th, lose the cup final and still keep van Gaal.....Mr Pessimistic right here

 

[siw2007]

I think this kid is the real deal, think pace and energy is becoming more and more important in central midfield and now Bayern have two incredible engines in there. I'm sure he will learn a lot from Vidal.

Can't blame us for the hesitation though, it's a lot of money and we still have a whole summer of big decisions ahead. You can't really sanction a big outlay like that without knowing if you have CL football, and the player would probably have wanted to wait for that outcome also.

Yeah I totally agree with this.

Also, you can't just stockpile young talent for the sake of it. We already have Fosu-Mensah who can be that powerful engine in the middle for us in the future.

I bet next year there will be another handful of young talent who will be linked with us. and then we can miss out on them too

 

[chicha14]

Firstly, who said we were ever really in for him?
Secondly, he has had one good season in Portugal and is 18 years old?

 

[Speak]

Delighted. Do not need and not as much potential as being talked about on here. Dodged a bullet.

Agreed.

 

[Donut]

I'm glad we're not spending 80 million on a player whose main attributes are physical prowess rather than technical skills.

And for people who are saying the add-ons mean that the player has turned successful, that's not necessarily true... I don't know what Sanches' are, but probably comparable to Martial's, and Martial's aren't even close to what would mean he's a huge success. We were always going to pay pretty much all of them, and I'd imagine it is similar to the Sanches deal, 60-70 million will be paid unless he turns out to be a huge bum.

It's just too much to pay for a physical specimen like him, this kind of money should really get us more than just potential.

 

[JPRouve]

How many Academy players do they field these days?

Three.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think the manager decides the transfer targets not Woodward

That hasn't exactly reassured me either.

 

[Xivon]

How many Academy players do they field these days?

We are already adressing the problem by building a new academy, we aren't blind. I think Alaba was the last one who made it, we will see how talents like Dorsch or Benko turn out.

 

[Damien]

Has any English club made a big international signing for the upcoming window so far? Think there's also the not-so-small matter of the EU Referendum coming up. If "Leave" wins, it would have been difficult to get Sanches a work permit if we were interested in him. He's only played less than a season so far and is 18.

Sanches to Bayern is Mendes' dream. He's got fingers in pies in a lot of big clubs except for in Germany. Probably rubbing his hands that a player of his is there.

 

[Attila]

Has any English club made a big international signing for the upcoming window so far? Think there's also the not-so-small matter of the EU Referendum coming up. If "Leave" wins, it would have been difficult to get Sanches a work permit if we were interested in him. He's only played less than a season so far and is 18.

Sanches to Bayern is Mendes' dream. He's got fingers in pies in a lot of big clubs except for in Germany. Probably rubbing his hands that a player of his is there.

If leave wins would all the changes not take a couple of years to implement? Would have thought it would still be the same process for a work permit for this window

 

[R'hllor]

Do we know for sure when they started negotiations?

Who the hell knows,people talk about this "they swoop in" move like its some kind of magic.

 

[ravi2]

How many Academy players do they field these days?

I couldnt care less how many academy players they field. They are winners and the club is magnificently run.

 

[sun_tzu]

Has any English club made a big international signing for the upcoming window so far? Think there's also the not-so-small matter of the EU Referendum coming up. If "Leave" wins, it would have been difficult to get Sanches a work permit if we were interested in him. He's only played less than a season so far and is 18.

Sanches to Bayern is Mendes' dream. He's got fingers in pies in a lot of big clubs except for in Germany. Probably rubbing his hands that a player of his is there.

Existing rules stay in place for 2 years... also rules for non EU players were relaxed with regards to exceptional talent... the fact he has played in Europe and the wages / salary would have secured enough points alone.
http://www.danielgeey.com/the-foreigner-debate-the-fas-new-work-permit-regulations-explained/

The appeals process is a points based system under which the panel will award points depending on the circumstances of the transfer. If a player scores four points or more, the panel may recommend that the application is granted. Nonetheless, the panel can still reject the application even if four or more points are scored.

Criteria Points
The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is in the top 25% of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows 3 points

The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is between the 50th and 75th % of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows 2 points

The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club is in the top 25% of the top 30 earners at the club 3 points

The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are between the 50th and 75th % of all the top 30 earners at the club 2 points

The player’s current club is in a Top League[3] and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes 1 point

The player’s current club has played in the group stages or onwards of the Champions League, Europa League or the Copa Libertadores within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes 1 point

If the player does not meet the above points based system review, there is a secondary examination under which if the player scores 5 points or more, the panel may recommend that an application is granted. Points can be scored if, for example, the player has played in the final qualification rounds of the Champions League, Europa League or the Copa Libertadores within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes. The review at this stage is more flexible meaning that the panel can take into account the circumstances if no transfer fee is payable (perhaps because the player has reached the end of his contract) or if the player satisfies some but not all of the automatic criteria.

If the player fails to score 5 points or more, there is one final review stage during which further arguments can be made if there are extenuating circumstances that are beyond the control of the player or national association (for example, a long term injury or suspension that has prevented the player from appearing in the last year).

that said I think exchange rates may play a factor for people... I have seen forecasts of parity (one euro to one pound) if we leave all the way to 1.50 euros per £ (id we stay) which is of course potentially a big saving
70 million euros could be £70 million or £46 million which is of course a bloody huge difference...
I suspect we will stay and that is probably priced into current rates to a certain extent but at least a short term rise in the value of the £ is likely if that is the case that we stay... and that could save clubs a fortune

 

[Esquire]

I don't know what the club is doing but I'm willing to wait and see what happens instead of losing my shit before the window is even officially open.

Just because this one was played out in the media it doesn't mean he was our only target. You'd think Sanches is the best footballer in the world, the way some are going on. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised - some were doing exactly the same when Pedro signed for Chelsea in the summer.

I generally agree with you but Bayern is one of the best run clubs in the world. If you compare their transfer dealings over the past few years, getting Pep after leaving Barca, getting Carlo in right away when Pep was leaving, all these things when stacked up against Woodward's performance then it's plain that we have been listless at best. The fact that Bayern is paying so much for Sanches should say something about (i) the high potential of this player (by all accounts we scouted him 24 times) and (ii) how we seem to get pipped to players by Bayern again. To be fair, Sanchez may not have really wanted to come here when Bayern came calling. But all in all, I don't think this reflects well on Woodward, no matter how some people are spinning it now.

 

[ghagua]

I have no real idea, but I always get the impression Bayern are a much better run outfit than us.

They are.

 

[starman]

The main bulk of these bonus objectives it's Renato Sanches winning the FIFA World Player of the year and him being picked for the UEFA team of the year. Not easy objectives to achieve but i guess if he does end up achieving those Bayern will have to pay decent ammounts.

Yeah, and if he does achieve those things they will have one of the best players in world. So 60m with a massive resell value potential makes the fee look like nothing.
Even 27m for a solid midfielder for 6 years, they could sell on and make back most if not all of their money back is still worth the risk. Who knows what the prices will be in 2021..