Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
http://www.islamicnet.com/zakat-al-fitrah.htm
There are no "errors" with the "Fitrah". Your assumption is actually wrong about how things work when it comes to the "Fitrah". However it's not something "I" invented about what's crucial or not in Islam.. Every Muslim knows that.. There are things that are "Muhkamat" which are the most important things, and there are things that are "Mutashabihat" which are not important or not very clear for the people.. It's mentioned in the Quran itself..
Anyway, why is your assumption wrong? Because you think that the Quran "missed" the fact that most civilizations "didn't worship God" (which why you put it in bold, thinking it's a marvelous discovery that nobody heard about), when in fact the Quran itself talks a lot about this. If everybody was good, and following God, then why does God need to send prophets?! That's a pretty silly way to interpret this.
What's meant is that God has given everybody what's needed to believe in him, and it's the person himself who decides to be a disbeliever/do wrong things, mainly because of his desires..
It would be unfair if life is the end of it.. But if there is an afterlife, then justice can easily be done.
Why does god send prophets? Surely it would easier for him just to tell us all individually? That way, people will be certain that there is a god and that when they do something wrong, it will count for all of eternity. It would also prevent people from following the wrong religion due to social influences. It really is idiotic, god's a moron.
This made me giggle.What about the starving African children who the likes of mother Teresa convert to Catholicism before they die? Is it fair that Allah judges and punishes them for that?
Not only that but he doesn't do anything about those pesky false prophets except to warn us to watch out for them
Which false prophets?
Everybody will be judged according to his deeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mahdi_claimants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus
Not to mention the various non-Abrahamic religions you think are incorrect, unless you want to tell us Sikhism is correct?
How do you judge a newborn who dies minutes later? What possible deed could they do to get them into heaven?
Yes, that is clearly outlined in all religious blueprints..
So, being a non-Muslim won't send us to hell then?
And if you really believe that, why are you on the internet arguing with other relatively well off people with access to the internet when you could be devoting your life to helping children in impoverished areas of the world?
In a lot of them, it certainly is. But you are rather homophobic, I'm not going to apologize because you're an intolerant feckwit.
Some of you seem to have got the wrong impression about me debating here, which seems to have made some people really angry.
Believe it or not, I'm not here to convince anybody about anything.. I'm here just enjoying my free time, and trying to see what everybody thinks, basically for my own benefit. I wasn't even talking about Islam.. You started this thread that religions are "complete bollocks", so I wondered if you have any proof for that.. I tried to have an objective debate about that point, but some people here seem determined to "Fight! Fight! And ridiculing people is our only weapon!!"
Wrong again.
Here is what you said :
Zakat Al Fitr is something you pay regardless of whether you didn't fast during Ramadan. Fidya is actually what you pay in that case.
This is just ridiculous. Aren't you tired of finding excuses to your religion ? I have given you the Hadith where it is mentioned loud and clear, show me a source that says that "Fitrah" is something that Muslims do not agree with.
Have you actually understood my point ? There is a contradiction between what Islam claims and what happened in reality. No, people are not born with a natural tendency to believe in one God as Islam says. Monotheistic religions appeared later in the development of religions. The fact that God had to send prophets should tell you that he fecked up somewhere (weird for a self-declared perfect being...).
No, he fecked up when he gave us a brain.
Some of you seem to have got the wrong impression about me debating here, which seems to have made some people really angry.
Believe it or not, I'm not here to convince anybody about anything.. I'm here just enjoying my free time, and trying to see what everybody thinks, basically for my own benefit. I wasn't even talking about Islam.. You started this thread that religion are "complete bollocks", so I wondered if you have any proof for that.. I tried to have an objective debate about that point, but some people here seem determined to "Fight! Fight! And ridiculing people is our only weapon!!"
We're asking you questions about Islam, you don't have to answer to them. Do you believe non-Muslims are going to hell? If so, how can "judged by his deeds" hold true?
And it clearly is completely bollocks. It's not a coincidence that religions happen to hold the beliefs of the men who institutionalized them. Have you ever wondered why religions which were written by men see little wrong with heterosexual male sexuality and so much wrong non-hetero male sexuality? Do you think that men having multiple wives if the will of god or the will of them men who wrote the religions? Gender binary is a social phenomenon, any religion which subscribes to it is quite evidently dreamt up by macho men.
But not all, so regardless of what you think of me, your the feckwit generalising.
Which scale were you using then, out of curiosity?
I never said it's because of Sikhism, Sikhs testified in front of the Canadian parliament in favor of gay marriage. I'm just going to take every opportunity to call you the homophobic feckwit you are.
Either way it's something you pay related to Ramadan.
Excuses?! Because you make a false claim, and I show you why your claim is false doesn't make me "make excuses". Otherwise every answer for any question is an "excuse".
Yes, the natural tendency is to believe in one God.. Is that the only factor influencing the outcome? No. It's absurd to think that because people are born "good" they have to "stay" good.. There is an evil part in life that pushes people in another direction, and that's why God send prophets.
It's never said that people will be monotheistic. It's said that's how everybody is born.. Logic tells us that there has to be one God who created everything.. You choose to replace that answer with "I don't know", or whatever you like.
Oh and yes, this is not a crucial issue in Islam.. Show me a source where it says that it is one of basic and crucial things in Islam..
How is a new born able to discern?
I don't know. His soul could receive another body, I don't know.. That's God's job.. Not having all the answers doesn't make me wrong.. Don't forget, you don't have all the answers either.
Sure is.
A newborn still undergoes chemical reactions which lead either to pain or pleasure. An eternity in the depths of hell would still be suffering, regardless of whether or not is can conceptualize what suffering is. We have animal rights, not because they can discern what is good or bad, but because they still feel pain or pleasure.
Nothing, it's just an absurd term..
Yeah, so you were wrong, again.
You have shown absolutely feck all. Like in your thousand other posts in this thread.
So during millions and millions of years, people were born with a natural tendency to believe in one God and not ONE monotheistic religion came out of it ? Instead we had to wait for God to send us messengers in order to realize that there is only one God ? Absolutely ridiculous.
Logic doesn't tell us anything of that sort. Logic leads to science and science contradicts Abrahamic religions.
+ the hadith I showed you earlier
Err...
You obviously live in a black and white world silva, where its either love or hate. I genuinely pray for you brother and myself of course..
Yeah, so you were wrong, again.
You have shown absolutely feck all. Like in your thousand other posts in this thread.
So during millions and millions of years, people were born with a natural tendency to believe in one God and not ONE monotheistic religion came out of it ? Instead we had to wait for God to send us messengers in order to realize that there is only one God ? Absolutely ridiculous.
Logic doesn't tell us anything of that sort. Logic leads to science and science contradicts Abrahamic religions.
+ the hadith I showed you earlier
Are you neglecting the fact that you didn't even think that this is another term "Fitrah" in Islam?
Let me ask you a question that you have dodged three times (I think) already.. How was Abraham a Muslim?! Can you answer me?
Science doesn't contradict monotheism. Nor does logic. And we've already had this discussion.
Having a Hadith and a verse mentioning it doesn't make it "crucial" for Islam.. I think you just need to calm down a bit so it will be easier for you to understand things.. Breastfeeding a baby is also mentioned in the Quran and in many Hadiths, is breastfeeding crucial for Islam?!
Nothing like in that video. I am talking about YOU (your soul/consciousness/whatever). You came into this world (phase2). Phase 1 was in the womb.
Ah right, I had no idea that was a thing. Is phase 0 while you're still a sperm?
No need to pray for me, maybe you can pray others gay away?
Eh? How is a new born able to choose between right and wrong? They can't. Therefore how are they to be judged? They won't be. Follow?
For the 1 millionth time, "Fitrah" does not mean what you think it means. "Zakat Al Fitr" is what you had in mind and it is the "Zakat" part that relates it to money and not the "Al Fitr" part. Also stop your hypocrisy. You didn't even know what Fitrah meant 1 hour ago...Are you neglecting the fact that you didn't even think that this is another term "Fitrah" in Islam?
You have an astonishing lack of critical thinking. What makes you say that he was a Muslim ? Is there anything, besides the Quran, that points out that he was a Muslim ?
Yes we had this discussion, and we already established that it was pure bullshit.
Wait, are you saying that there is something mentioned in the Quran that should not be considered ? Because I don't give a damn if you consider it important, the fact is it was mentioned in the Quran and so said by Allah. Evidence points out that it is pure bullshit and absolute nonsense.
Perhaps... since you talk bollocks.