http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...aka-village/story-roqGPLozzYLgsX3BjVi2RI.html
Karnataka village’s shame: Dalits ‘repent for sins’ in age-old ritual
Karnataka village’s shame: Dalits ‘repent for sins’ in age-old ritual
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
Tunisia sentences British DJ for Muslim prayer remix
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39522342
He's been sentenced to a year in prison (unlikely to serve it because he's already out of the country), because he played a track with the Muslim call to prayer in it at a festival in Tunisia. Perhaps pretty silly of him (maybe he thought it'd go down well?), but even more ridiculous to further damage the reputation of a religion under fire more than any other, no?
I'm pretty left on most things and although I don't necessarily agree with religion in general, have no problem telling anyone giving Muslims stick where to go, but this is surely a sign of a regressive faith in what is otherwise a reasonably forward moving country (I thought?).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39522342
He's been sentenced to a year in prison (unlikely to serve it because he's already out of the country), because he played a track with the Muslim call to prayer in it at a festival in Tunisia. Perhaps pretty silly of him (maybe he thought it'd go down well?), but even more ridiculous to further damage the reputation of a religion under fire more than any other, no?
I'm pretty left on most things and although I don't necessarily agree with religion in general, have no problem telling anyone giving Muslims stick where to go, but this is surely a sign of a regressive faith in what is otherwise a reasonably forward moving country (I thought?).
Sweden are now moving closer to a ban for all confessional elements in all swedish schools for it is every child's right to not be indoctrinated with religious crap in their learning environment. Not a day too soon.
Oops...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-pastor:homepage/story&utm_term=.9873762b389d
This pastor called gays ‘sinners’ after Pulse shooting. Now he’s convicted of child molestation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-pastor:homepage/story&utm_term=.9873762b389d
This pastor called gays ‘sinners’ after Pulse shooting. Now he’s convicted of child molestation.
Points to consider, in order, for anyone who has faith in any God:
1. The universe is about 13.8 billion years old, based on sound evidence that is... universally accepted in the scientific community.
2. It is widely accepted and documented that the earth is 4.5 billion years.
3. There have been roughly five large scale extinction events on earth, while primitive "life" appeared on the scene 4.3 billion years ago in the form of zircon crystals.
4. After such important time periods as the Cambrian Explosion, the Permian Extinction (also known as "The Great Dying", was responsible for the extinction of roughly 90-95% of all life on earth 252 million years ago) , and the KT extinction event which brought dominance from amphibians, to reptiles to finally mammals.
5. The rise of the great apes a few million years ago, which saw our distant relatives not only evolve into upright creatures, but also become omnivorous, mobile enough to leave the plains of Africa and spread out to Asia and Europe.
6. After further evolution, many additional species come and go but constantly evolve until we are left with about four, 40000 years ago. Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Homo floresiensis ("Flores Man"; nicknamed "hobbit").
7. After years of cross-breeding, particularly between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals the only surviving human species is us.
I'd like to say that leads us to today, but it doesn't. We are constantly evolving. We always have, and always will... or we will die out. We might die out anyway, but that's beside the point.
So, some questions
According to Genesis we are made in the image of Him. Which version of us, exactly? Because on a micro-biological level, nothing stays the same. Ever. Things always change.
a) If God made us, why did he take 13.8 billion years to do so?
b) If we are made in the image of God, which one of "we" counts, exactly?
c) Europeans, and in fact most of humanity outside of native Africans possess roughly 2-3% Neanderthal DNA. Does this make those of us with mixed with other species' DNA less important in God's eyes?
d) If you consider God to be the Christian Creator of all, and an all-powerful presence, why is his only "evidence" the Bible? A book riddled not only with contradictions, but also flatout demonstrably inaccuracies? Wouldn't an all powerful God be able to provide something a bit more accurate than what we have today?
e) Do other species of human that have since gone extinct have souls?
1. The universe is about 13.8 billion years old, based on sound evidence that is... universally accepted in the scientific community.
2. It is widely accepted and documented that the earth is 4.5 billion years.
3. There have been roughly five large scale extinction events on earth, while primitive "life" appeared on the scene 4.3 billion years ago in the form of zircon crystals.
4. After such important time periods as the Cambrian Explosion, the Permian Extinction (also known as "The Great Dying", was responsible for the extinction of roughly 90-95% of all life on earth 252 million years ago) , and the KT extinction event which brought dominance from amphibians, to reptiles to finally mammals.
5. The rise of the great apes a few million years ago, which saw our distant relatives not only evolve into upright creatures, but also become omnivorous, mobile enough to leave the plains of Africa and spread out to Asia and Europe.
6. After further evolution, many additional species come and go but constantly evolve until we are left with about four, 40000 years ago. Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Homo floresiensis ("Flores Man"; nicknamed "hobbit").
7. After years of cross-breeding, particularly between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals the only surviving human species is us.
I'd like to say that leads us to today, but it doesn't. We are constantly evolving. We always have, and always will... or we will die out. We might die out anyway, but that's beside the point.
So, some questions
According to Genesis we are made in the image of Him. Which version of us, exactly? Because on a micro-biological level, nothing stays the same. Ever. Things always change.
a) If God made us, why did he take 13.8 billion years to do so?
b) If we are made in the image of God, which one of "we" counts, exactly?
c) Europeans, and in fact most of humanity outside of native Africans possess roughly 2-3% Neanderthal DNA. Does this make those of us with mixed with other species' DNA less important in God's eyes?
d) If you consider God to be the Christian Creator of all, and an all-powerful presence, why is his only "evidence" the Bible? A book riddled not only with contradictions, but also flatout demonstrably inaccuracies? Wouldn't an all powerful God be able to provide something a bit more accurate than what we have today?
e) Do other species of human that have since gone extinct have souls?
What an ironic word.
i couldn't resist
I don't pretend to speak on behalf of other theists on this site, but I doubt any of them would be impressed with your regurgitation of basic science. All the points you raise I'm sure have been considered and incorporated into their understanding of the world. Your objections appear to be brought up by every 'newly-enlightened atheist' who seems to think their reasoning process delivers a knock-out blow to all 'idiotic Christians.' On the contrary, this topic has been discussed ad infinitum by those interested in the Ultimate Question and intelligent people have found their way to both sides of the debate. If you're interested in lengthy responses to the points you raise, I'd direct you to William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith, or, for a lighter read, Dinesh D'Souza's What's So Great About Christianity or C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity.
if you can find any thing that i said that somehow referred to christians as being "idiotic", please feel free to point out what exactly i said that could be construed as offensive. because if i did, i apologise for it.
i took the time to write my questions which are fairly basic, and shouldn't require someone to essentially say "go read a philospher's book to find your answers". i'm genuinely interested in hearing people's own responses.
as for you not being impressed with my basic level understanding of science, i think you might be surprised to find out that most people do not know what i just outlined.
" ...The same survey found that 34% of Americans reject evolution entirely, saying humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time." - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/10/darwin-day/
i'm not being facetious, but if you do know the basic principles of cosmic history, and you still have faith in a particular religion, i would genuinely be interested in hearing how you reconcile it. furthermore, there is absolutely no need to be defensive with me, as i have zero intention of offending anyone. there is a pretty good chance that i come from the strictest of religious backgrounds of almost anyone on this message board.
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Happy to echo your sentiments on this one. I wouldn't call your OP a 'regurgitation of basic science', either. I think it helps set things up for a genuine insight in to, as you said, how people of faith reconcile the two.
How we give theories with so many glaringly obvious inaccuracies from over 2000 years ago any credence at all given the rate at which we currently learn new things is amazing.
Was she joking? Surely nobody actually believes such fairy stories?
Religion should be nowhere near schools and any teacher who can't keep their own beliefs out of their teaching should be sacked.
My son got thrown out of a religion lesson they accidentally forced him to go to (against our express written instructions) when he was about 10 for asking "If god made everything who made god?". It was a genuine question mas he had never heard the idea that some big bearded invisible bloke was in charge of everything and he was genuinely puzzled as it made no sense to him.
The same school called me to say they might have to suspend him for making some religious kid cry. It turned out that the "victim" had been telling my son on a more than daily basis that he was going to burn in hell for all eternity for not believing. After months of this my son finally reacted and said "Go away. You do know that is is all just a made up story don't you?". After my visit we got a written apology. To say that I was unimpressed is an understatement.
My son got thrown out of a religion lesson they accidentally forced him to go to (against our express written instructions) when he was about 10 for asking "If god made everything who made god?". It was a genuine question mas he had never heard the idea that some big bearded invisible bloke was in charge of everything and he was genuinely puzzled as it made no sense to him.
The same school called me to say they might have to suspend him for making some religious kid cry. It turned out that the "victim" had been telling my son on a more than daily basis that he was going to burn in hell for all eternity for not believing. After months of this my son finally reacted and said "Go away. You do know that is is all just a made up story don't you?". After my visit we got a written apology. To say that I was unimpressed is an understatement.
No, as crazy as it sounds, she believes that story.
You'll love this... we have a bible class that serves as an elective credit. We are a public school. We offer no other classes on any other religious texts.
Me-ow
If God is all powerful, why doesn't he stop his sales reps from bum raping children?
Mysterious ways n' shit.
I actually agree that religion as it is taught now shouldn't be a part of the curriculum, unless they are explicitly a faith founded school. However, I do think there needs to be some of religious education to dispel ignorance. Whether people like or not, we are a multi-faith society in the UK and that's not likely to change anytime soon.
Instead of teaching religion in the context of the origin of the universe, morality, purpose of life etc. Religious education should be geared towards teaching what religion is, and having tolerance of other's beliefs and avoiding prejudices. Naturally this involves learning a bit of each religion so you actually understand what they believe (& including atheism). But it should be done in an objective and educational manner, instead of teaching children the way life works based on a particular religion. Religion at is taught now should be part of extra-curricular activities and after school clubs.
Instead of teaching religion in the context of the origin of the universe, morality, purpose of life etc. Religious education should be geared towards teaching what religion is, and having tolerance of other's beliefs and avoiding prejudices. Naturally this involves learning a bit of each religion so you actually understand what they believe (& including atheism). But it should be done in an objective and educational manner, instead of teaching children the way life works based on a particular religion. Religion at is taught now should be part of extra-curricular activities and after school clubs.
Yea, I'm a believer in people from all religious and ethnic backrounds being protected from discrimination, while at the same time controlling religions and ideologies with fair laws in secular ethics. Obviously that isn't about to fly in the Islamic countries anytime soon, but in time maybe their attitudes can become more liberal.
This is how world religions are handled in the South Carolina high school social studies curriculum.
Kids end up learning almost as much about their own religion as they do about the other ones we cover.
Everything happens for a reason is the retort I often hear/read.
Well, tell that to the 8-year being sodomized by his uncle.
Sounds like nonsense many of my family members would throw out.
I've heard this is how religion is taught in Japan as well. Christianity, Islam, etc are taught the way we teach Roman myths. They're depicted as old stories that aren't true.
Right now the current theological debate between me and the rest of the social studies department (the previously quoted is the cause of this debate) is centered on how Jesus could be born before 4 BC in Matthew but in 6 AD in Luke. They're really scratching their heads over this one.
All came up because the previously mentioned colleague decided she could pinpoint my falling out with organized religion as something to be blamed on a bad experience at church, a falling out with a pastor, or a general distaste of religion in my family in general. When she found out that I never had a bad church experience, am still friends with my former pastors, and my family regularly attends church service, she asked "well then WHY do you not believe?!?!"... to which I finally said, "because I actually read the book, have you?" (she hadn't - which raises a whole other train of thought in my head towards these people who believe the Bible is the most important thing ever printed, but yet have never actually read it).
She got the department in on the questioning, so I've started giving them a list of historical facts that the Bible simply gets completely wrong. I'm not even bothering with scientific stuff, but as history people, they're really perplexed as to how their "infallible word of God" can get simple history so very wrong.
I teach Christianity right alongside Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Judaism (I just don't have time for any more than that). I don't tell them what to or not to believe, but I make it a personal mission to point out numerous and varied forms of ignorance surrounding the various faiths that are commonly held in the local culture to at least attempt to undo the dozen plus years of indoctrination they've been subjected to by growing up in the southeast United States.
I think you've covered the major religions there! But yes I think that approach is the best. Kids should be encouraged to make up their own minds, although obviously they will naturally drift towards a certain direction based on their upbringing and parent's beliefs. Hopefully more and more educational systems adopt this approach, especially here in the UK.
Have you read about Bahá'í Faith ?
Indeed, they will. My hope is that while they will do that, they'll at least have some sort of respect for the other faiths out there.
I'm amazed that it isn't part of the U.K. curriculum!
Yes I have! I've actually been to their House of Justice, Shrine of the Bab, and the surrounding gardens on Mt. Carmel in Haifa. Such a beautiful place.
I'd love to teach about it, but time constraints limit me to the biggest ones/the ones they'll come into contact with the most.
I think Schools teaching religion is far less of a problem than the parents brainwashing children at home.
It's really something to hear some of the brainwashing come out when teaching about religions. The looks on kids mind blown faces sometimes is priceless
I never knew you were a teacher. I apologize for mocking you in the us election thread the day trump won.
I thought you were some ex military guy.
No worries man!
It's late on Friday night. I'm tired after a very hard week. And things like this make me despair for the future of humanity.
How is that even possible?
The human mind has an impressive ability to compartmentalise.
Ffs Ireland:
Stephen Fry faces blasphemy probe after God comments
Police in the Republic of Ireland have launched an investigation after a viewer claimed comments made by Stephen Fry on a TV show were blasphemous.
Officers are understood to be examining whether the British comedian committed a criminal offence under the Defamation Act when he appeared on RTE in 2015.
Fry had asked why he should "respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world.... full of injustice".
He later said he was not "offensive towards any particular religion".
According to a report in the Irish Independent newspaper, no publicised cases of blasphemy have been brought before the courts since the law was introduced in 2009 and a source said it was "highly unlikely" that a prosecution against Fry would take place.
25,000 euros fine
Appearing on The Meaning of Life, hosted by Gay Byrne, in February 2015, Fry had been asked what he might say to God at the gates of heaven.
Fry said: "How dare you create a world in which there is such misery? It's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?"
He went on to say that Greek gods "didn't present themselves as being all seeing, all wise, all beneficent", adding "the god who created this universe, if it was created by god, is quite clearly a maniac, an utter maniac, totally selfish".
The Irish Independent reported a member of the public made a complaint to police in Ennis in the same month the programme was broadcast. He was recently contacted by a detective to say they were looking into his complaint.
The viewer was not said to be offended himself but believed Fry's comments qualified as blasphemy under the law, which carries a maximum penalty of a fine of 25,000 euros (£22,000).
The law prohibits people from publishing or uttering "matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion".
The government said at the time it was needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs.
'Absolutely astonished'
Fry's representatives have been contacted for a comment.
Speaking to the BBC in 2015, Fry said he had been "absolutely astonished" by some of the reaction on social media to what he had said on the show.
He said: "I don't think I mentioned once any particular religion and I certainly didn't intend, and in fact I know I didn't say anything offensive towards any particular religion."
A police spokeswoman told the BBC: "We are not commenting on an ongoing investigation."
Stephen Fry faces blasphemy probe after God comments
Police in the Republic of Ireland have launched an investigation after a viewer claimed comments made by Stephen Fry on a TV show were blasphemous.
Officers are understood to be examining whether the British comedian committed a criminal offence under the Defamation Act when he appeared on RTE in 2015.
Fry had asked why he should "respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world.... full of injustice".
He later said he was not "offensive towards any particular religion".
According to a report in the Irish Independent newspaper, no publicised cases of blasphemy have been brought before the courts since the law was introduced in 2009 and a source said it was "highly unlikely" that a prosecution against Fry would take place.
25,000 euros fine
Appearing on The Meaning of Life, hosted by Gay Byrne, in February 2015, Fry had been asked what he might say to God at the gates of heaven.
Fry said: "How dare you create a world in which there is such misery? It's not our fault? It's not right. It's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?"
He went on to say that Greek gods "didn't present themselves as being all seeing, all wise, all beneficent", adding "the god who created this universe, if it was created by god, is quite clearly a maniac, an utter maniac, totally selfish".
The Irish Independent reported a member of the public made a complaint to police in Ennis in the same month the programme was broadcast. He was recently contacted by a detective to say they were looking into his complaint.
The viewer was not said to be offended himself but believed Fry's comments qualified as blasphemy under the law, which carries a maximum penalty of a fine of 25,000 euros (£22,000).
The law prohibits people from publishing or uttering "matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion".
The government said at the time it was needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs.
'Absolutely astonished'
Fry's representatives have been contacted for a comment.
Speaking to the BBC in 2015, Fry said he had been "absolutely astonished" by some of the reaction on social media to what he had said on the show.
He said: "I don't think I mentioned once any particular religion and I certainly didn't intend, and in fact I know I didn't say anything offensive towards any particular religion."
A police spokeswoman told the BBC: "We are not commenting on an ongoing investigation."
I didn't know there were such laws in modern Ireland ?
As the article states, it was only introduced recently (2009). Absolute joke.
It requires "outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion" to be considered a criminal offence, and the person who made the claim wasn't even offended. Guess there's nothing to it.