Religion, what's the point?

No. and no. Atheism is the lack of a belief so can we please stop saying that it is?

If what you were saying were true, it would also be the lack of belief in scientific theories seeking to disprove the existence of God. You can't have it both ways

That makes no sense whatsoever.. :confused:

You are really trying to make atheists and science into some evil tools that are out to stop god.. No scientific theory was built to disprove the existance of god. Science doesn't give a s*** about god. Science is trying to find answers to questions about the world we live in and just because every single answer so far hasn't given any evidence for a god doesn't mean it's "seeking to disprove god".
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Also, atheists don't seek anything and we don't have any motives regarding anything that concerns religion. You put a lot of words in our mouths there and it seems as if you are painting us all with the same brush as well which is a pretty shitty thing to do.

It's correct.

No, it really isn't. But seeing that you quoted the bible when describing what an atheist feels and believes then whatever I say is probably just white noise to you.

Still, no god has an effect on my life or my thoughts whatsoever, because I don't believe that gods exist and I could just as well replace the word god with Santa claus or Spiderman. i.e I don't feel any accountability towards Spiderman because I don't believe that he exists.

This describes atheism. You are very confused.

I know it does. Exactly in the same way that I described atheism before. :confused:
I don't believe in gods - atheism is a lack of belief.. what exactly am I confused about?
 
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Atheism is a belief that God does not exist in any form whatsoever. What you are describing as atheism is agnosticism.



God cannot be proven or disproved using physical observable evidence. Atheists seek scientific evidence that they believe appears to rule out any historical involvement of a deity in our universe. The more evidence they are persuaded by, the more confident they feel. What is unknown about the atheists individually is the motive for their lack of interest. God is irrelevant? Religion is counterproductive? Religion messed me up? Accountability to a God is an uncomfortable thought?
Who knows what the motive is. Usually i find that Atheists will use any reason for an specific argument, because the simple fact is, they don't like the idea that God could exist, and that's really what they're seeking to brush off.

To balance this type of thinking out we could also debate what is it that the religious need from god. Why do they put aside all reason and take on faith alone this particular belief in contradiction to the rationality they show in other areas. What is unknown is the individual theist's motivation. The thought that we are truly alone is also an uncomfortable one and the insatiable need to be forgiven begs the question what have they done that is so terrible only god can forgive their sins.


If we are playing the game of second guessing motivation then play it from both ends.
 
Quite the contrary, I think new atheists are trying to redefine the word 'atheism' to relieve themselves from the burden of providing evidence for the claim 'there is no God'. The definition of the word is quite clear in any dictionary of philosophy.

There is no burden of proof for atheists. You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.
 
The "a" in Atheism means without or lack of.

That's just the etymological definition, in a broad sense is right but as any 'ism' it goes beyond that definition. It's a well defined stance about religion, or the lack of one and a more intermidiate point would be just to be labeled as an agnostic.
 
There is no burden of proof for atheists. You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.
Awful lot of people trying to convince themselves otherwise on here.

It seems to me that every 5 pages or so we come in a circulatory pattern with the same people desperate to prove there's no evidence for Gods existence. The odd fresh meat coming along to politely try to agree with you. It's not about Proof.

The title of the thread is really 'What is the point of Religion'. Nearly two thousand years ago Christianity overturned the Roman way of life, conquest and colonisation. Since that period it was used to keep the peasant and middle classes subservient and again, to colonise. I'd guess that since the end of the First World War and with every new development of science Christianity has become less relevant to larger numbers of people however it was never meant to be about mass control of the people by the people and yet it has done good along with bad immeasurably. The cause of wars but by people for selfish gain and corruption and the cause of countless communities and societies, organisations attempting to help mitigate the results of that corruption. None of the writers in the Bible intended their work to be compiled and used for evil I'd say and yet it is in some humans natures to attempt to rule and some to be ruled even though God and Jesus talked about Free Choice but we haven't been able to help ourselves overcome our traits.

Now, we are at a point in time when we have never had so much Free Choice in our personal beliefs although it has become less than necessary to use Religion to motivate us in our conquests for what someone else has or to deny them what they want, our leaders no longer need Religion to get their way, its much easier now. They only need to talk about things like patriotism, fascism, communism, terrorism. In reality it is one set of peoples want their way of life to remain and one, their way of life to improve. Somebody always needs keeping in their place.

So back to what is the point now we have Religion all to ourselves? Science is all, death is the end, we have no hope except eventual immortality for our descendants, to live on another planet because by the time it may be possible it will be a race to still have the necessary resources. Without belief we are still heading somehow for what had been prophesied in the Bible. Religion by the way is growing, despite this thread, but it is growing most in the third world, Christianity and Islam. To me it seems in the western world we have lost hope while trusting that science will answer all our questions, science that seems to come ever closer to proving that something unseen and all powerful exists.

The point about believing in God isn't about Proof, it is about helping our fellow man, all our fellow men, not just the ones we choose to have rather then the ones we choose to have not. God says I give you free will, choice, but to come to me I ask you to love your fellow man, all of them, that is the point.
 
What on Earth has that to do with my question Grinner. What do you mean flounce? I certainly don't look to insult anyone or their beliefs or non-belief before pissing off or trying to evade the question.

Will you use the name of Allah who is the same as the christian God when asking your question?

Why do I need to say Allah if it's the same bloke?
 
Maybe because I'm not Arabic.
You don't have to be do you? Surely this is a thread about all religion not just christianity so I'm asking you why not that I want you to actually put the words God, and is, and a cnut together necessarily but if you were to surely you are saying it as much of the Muslim God as you are of the Christian God who are one in the same and I wanted to know if you were brave enough to. Or why you would avoid it perhaps. It's really not a trick question.
 
You don't have to be do you? Surely this is a thread about all religion not just christianity so I'm asking you why not that I want you to actually put the words God, and is, and a cnut together necessarily but if you were to surely you are saying it as much of the Muslim God as you are of the Christian God who are one in the same and I wanted to know if you were brave enough to. Or why you would avoid it perhaps. It's really not a trick question.

eh?

It was Mockney who did that. Not me.

I don't think God, Allah, Zeus or whomever is a cnut because they don't exist. But if they did then they'd be right cnuts.
 
eh?

It was Mockney who did that. Not me.

I don't think God, Allah, Zeus or whomever is a cnut because they don't exist. But if they did then they'd be right cnuts.
I don't know why you keep saying "Eh?", it is quite clear.

So if God, Allah, or Zeus do not exist then why is the answer important to you? Why would you care what God/Allah would do to Mockney if you don't believe he exists? Surely you wouldn't believe in any consequences do you?
 
I don't know why you keep saying "Eh?", it is quite clear.

So if God, Allah, or Zeus do not exist then why is the answer important to you? Why would you care what God/Allah would do to Mockney if you don't believe he exists? Surely you wouldn't believe in any consequences do you?

What on earth are you going on about?

Go back and read my post again and then see if you want to continue your silly questions.
 
What on earth are you going on about?

Go back and read my post again and then see if you want to continue your silly questions.
lol, so you don't understand why you are asking a silly question about something you do not believe exists, and I'll continue to ask you questions silly or not so long as I am able and you seem scared of answering.

Let's put it another way since it seems so silly. Why are you interested in a supposed punishment that you do not believe can exist and while we are at it why is it that people seem to so easily believe it is perfectly okay to insult God but not Allah on this discussion? Surely you are not unable to put forward an idea.
 
Haven't we established that god is allah?
So why does no-one including you use the name Allah when insulting him? Or are saying that when people insult God during this discussion at the same time it is implicit that they are insulting Allah?
 
lol, so you don't understand why you are asking a silly question about something you do not believe exists, and I'll continue to ask you questions silly or not so long as I am able and you seem scared of answering.

Let's put it another way since it seems so silly. Why are you interested in a supposed punishment that you do not believe can exist and while we are at it why is it that people seem to so easily believe it is perfectly okay to insult God but not Allah on this discussion? Surely you are not unable to put forward an idea.

The reason most of us say god, rather than Allah is because, I'd imagine, we've been brought up Christian or at least in Christian dominated environments. But if they are one and the same, does it matter. Isn't Allah just the Arabic word for god? Wouldn't Yahweh be a more accurate 'name'?

It's like asking why we don't call chips 'Pommes frites'.
 
So why does no-one including you use the name Allah when insulting him? Or are saying that when people insult God during this discussion at the same time it is implicit that they are insulting Allah?

Because we're not Arabic.

Do you go about speaking in tongues in your daily life, or just stick to English? Shouldn't you be equally distressed if somebody says allah is a cnut?
 
The reason most of us say god, rather than Allah is because, I'd imagine, we've been brought up Christian or at least in Christian dominated environments. But if they are one and the same, does it matter. Isn't Allah just the Arabic word for god? Wouldn't Yahweh be a more accurate 'name'?

It's like asking why we don't call chips 'Pommes frites'.
And yet this is a discussion about Religion and not specifically Christianity.

But I guess I will ask you, do you believe that it is implicit that when someone on here insults God they are insulting Allah?
 
Because we're not Arabic.

Do you go about speaking in tongues in your daily life, or just stick to English? Shouldn't you be equally distressed if somebody says allah is a cnut?
Fair enough but you avoided answering the second question. Are people insulting Allah when they insult God on this discussion?
 
You're on a very weird obsession here.
It's just a line of questioning much the same as many have asked when they want to know what people think and yet you are avoiding the answer. Maybe I'm obsessed, does that mean that you cannot answer?
 
What the feck am I not answering?
Whether you believe that people are insulting Allah when they insult God during this discussion? Is that really so hard for you to answer or understand?
 
It appears to be too difficult or perhaps frightening.
 
Jesus fecking christ.

According to you lot god is allah and allah is god, so any comment on god applies to god in whatever language you speak. How is that not clear? Allah is Arabic for god, isn't it?
 
Jesus fecking christ.

According to you lot god is allah and allah is god, so any comment on god applies to god in whatever language you speak. How is that not clear? Allah is Arabic for god, isn't it?
Still avoiding the question. Seems odd but we'll have to take it.

To summarise for you. When people insult God they are also insulting Allah because he is God.

We have plenty of people from Muslim backgrounds on here yet I have seen no-one insult Allah, it is interesting. We've got people here brought up in all faiths but it would seem to me that Christianity is considered fair game whilst people never seem to appreciate that they are also insulting the Muslim God, one in the same.

There there Grins, not so hard after all.
 
And yet this is a discussion about Religion and not specifically Christianity.

But I guess I will ask you, do you believe that it is implicit that when someone on here insults God they are insulting Allah?

No, it's not specifically about Christianity, but as you said, the Christian god and Allah are the same god. So for me, if I chose to insult something I didn't believe in, then yes, of course I'd be insulting both god and Allah. Again, it's just the Arabic word. Your question is like asking if people agree that if they are eating chips
they are actually eating Pomme frites'.
 
No, it's not specifically about Christianity, but as you said, the Christian god and Allah are the same god. So for me, if I chose to insult something I didn't believe in, then yes, of course I'd be insulting both god and Allah. Again, it's just the Arabic word. Your question is like asking if people agree that if they are eating chips
they are actually eating Pomme frites'.
Then why not give the word God a rest and have a pop at Allah for a change, it's a name not a second language.
 
Still avoiding the question. Seems odd but we'll have to take it.

To summarise for you. When people insult God they are also insulting Allah because he is God.

We have plenty of people from Muslim backgrounds on here yet I have seen no-one insult Allah, it is interesting. We've got people here brought up in all faiths but it would seem to me that Christianity is considered fair game whilst people never seem to appreciate that they are also insulting the Muslim God, one in the same.

There there Grins, not so hard after all.

So exactly what I said in the post above yours? You need another cup of coffee or something.

I'm going to bed and tomorrow I'll be skiing all day. I'm not frightened to answer your questions, just busy.

Peace be upon you.
 
So exactly what I said in the post above yours? You need another cup of coffee or something.

I'm going to bed and tomorrow I'll be skiing all day. I'm not frightened to answer your questions, just busy.

Peace be upon you.
Sorry to have been so trying. I'd had more faith in your being able to get to the point a bit quicker but as you say, you are tired. Sleep tight.
 
Then why not give the word God a rest and have a pop at Allah for a change, it's a name not a second language.

It's not a name though. It's the Arabic word for the abrahamic god. It's the same guy. If I'm making my arguments in Arabic, I'll use Allah. Deal?
 
It's not a name though. It's the Arabic word for the abrahamic god. It's the same guy. If I'm making my arguments in Arabic, I'll use Allah. Deal?
It's a name, one that you appear to understand and if we all know it is the same word for God it just appears odd to me that no one ever seems to use it but I'm glad to have so much consensus on here for a change, at least we seem to be in agreement that when you insult the Christians you are also insulting the Muslims.

Many thanks all.
 
It's a name, one that you appear to understand and if we all know it is the same word for God it just appears odd to me that no one ever seems to use it but I'm glad to have so much consensus on here for a change, at least we seem to be in agreement that when you insult the Christians you are also insulting the Muslims.

Many thanks all.

Why did you leave out the Jews? :(
 
Why did you leave out the Jews? :(
I think the jews have enough of a bad time as it is but by all means when you insult Allah and God you are also insulting the jewish name for him, Jehovah amongst others.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I feel that despite the earlier difficulty we are really getting somewhere.