Sounds a bit like the God of the Gaps argument. Are you satisfied with the idea that you believe something that you can't actually prove, but believe it anyway because you would like it to be true ?
Religion, what's the point?
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Sounds a bit like the God of the Gaps argument. Are you satisfied with the idea that you believe something that you can't actually prove, but believe it anyway because you would like it to be true ?
Religious people claim with certainty that something they have absolutely no way of knowing or proving, exists. Atheists point out that there is no evidence to suggest that it's true, which is a factual statement. You could argue that that is stupid, to formulate a conviction based on no evidence. That opens up doors to all other kinds of things in life which religious people do not seem to apply the same logic to. They only apply it to the concept of god. They should at least admit that they have no idea and they simply hope it's true. That's all faith is, a hope that what they believe, turns out to be right.
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Actually that's a good summary. I'm inclined follow the conclusions of Pascal's wager. Honestly, I am aware that religion if a codified set of irrational beliefs, that God is an entity who I want to/ I hope exists. I know all that. Yet I believe, I just want to.
Did you ever see Hitchen's rebuttal of Pascals wager? It was quite entertaining in showing what a fallacy it is.
Never seen that, will have a read. Cheers.
Here is pretty much his rebuttal articulated by somebody else in a debate had by letter.
If you click the click through on religious hucksterism it'll take you to Hitchen's himself speaking about it, but the sentiments are pretty much the same. The wager itself makes a mockery of God and everything that he is supposed to be. An excellent point I think he made is where he asks somebody who tries their absolute best but just could not bring themselves to believe, who stood by their convictions and said it just was not in them to believe, vs somebody who lived a lie and faked his servility just as a safe bet. Who is the more honest, who is the more righteous?
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actually that's interesting. some good points. For instance this one. For me as a Christian ( I was born in Poland
the only God I regard is the “Christian God”. I know that for many people god/s is something else and we adore these deities in other ways.actually that's interesting. some good points. For instance this one. For me as a Christian ( I was born in Poland
There have been thousands of gods over the course of humanity. While the belief that your Christian God is the right one may be comforting, I do find it somewhat arrogant for people to believe based (often but not always) on nothing more than the culture around them growing up or their parents telling them they were a certain religion that they picked the right one, and that all the rest of humanity who chose to believe in Odin, Thor, Zeus, Apollo, Freya, Loki, Hades, Aphrodite to Muhammed were all wrong and the thousands of other gods that have existed at one time or another and that those people all wasted their time. The odds of your god being the right one are at least equal to any of the others and that's before you even begin to look at whether he exists in the first place and whether if he does exist, whether you are even following the correct denomination. It's a hope, that's all it is. A hope that you're right and a belief. I also snuck an edit in at the end, but I think you replied before I submitted it. There's a lot of discussion that can be had about religion, but Pascal's wager is a fallacy and can be debunked immediately for the moron that it makes god out to be.
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Fair enough. Strangely enough I grew up religious but never wanted to believe that God existed. I just believed that he did. Once I realized it was all fake, there was little desire to continue pretending to hope it was real.
what made you realize it was all fake?
Education, observation, and a bit more life experience. Watching humans around the world compartmentalize themselves through the identity of organized religion, the fact that there is zero proof but people continue to believe it. Its a bit like a virus of mass hallucination that has gripped our species for much of recorded history, although that grip appears to be loosening a bit now that people have access to more information. I'm convinced that in 100 years religion will be widely viewed as Astrology is today.
Music, art and love are very evident in the animal kingdom also, at a more primitively level but there none the less. Example being birds, they sing to attract a mate and communicate, they build elaborate nests and evolve beautiful plumage and a lot of species mate for life.
Although they could never understand our life experience they have in some ways a more complex experience then a lot of humans. We, like everything else on this rock are a product of nature, a result of millennia of evolution to our current form. In my opinion of there being a god, no, not for me. To get to any rational conclusion regarding a subtle force would mean a consideration in the DNA manipulation of an ancient species of human by an outside entity. Ancient religions I do believe have more to teach us about ourselves and origins than the Abrahamic religions, which in my view have polluted mankinds rational thinking.
It is these things that have convinced me that Christ is with me.
What has education done to convince you Christ is with you ?
He sat beside him in Geography.
I'm not hear just talking of getting a degree. I meant reading and understanding not just the faith I was brought up in but also other faiths and even those who do not believe in a God. More so even by talking and discussing with others.
Everyone on this thread for example has an inherent need to help others even if it is just their immediate family or close friends.
I think we all know God in different ways even if we don't know him, if you know what I mean.
And to address what someone said..what if there was no God...then your life would have been wasted? How can your life be wasted if you have helped others.
So the fact that some people are inherently good-natured and want to help those close them? That's god?
I think if we take the stance that though I believe..or do not believe, I want to understand why those who do not agree with me believe as they do, we will get to understand and get to common ground.
If we take the stance I am right and try and 'attack', the discussion will stop being one.
For me I do not claim to have all the answers and never will. I want to understand. For me I want to live the life that Christ has spoken about that will lead me to happiness.
If we take the stance I am right and try and 'attack', the discussion will stop being one.
For me I do not claim to have all the answers and never will. I want to understand. For me I want to live the life that Christ has spoken about that will lead me to happiness.
If a white dude knocked on your door with twelve other dudes preaching love and turning the other cheek telling you he is the second coming of Christ what would you say? Also, if they wanted to be invited in for a meal and some foot washing would you take a leap of faith?
Where would we be as a species if Abraham killed his son while tripping on mushrooms or because of a bacterial infection of the brain from living in a tent with a few dozen goats. The exact fecking same I bet. Or even better I say. Imagine society with out the trifecta of poison (Christianity, Judaism and Islam), my device wouldn't autocorrect the to a capital for a start.
I know that is not how Christ will return.
Don't ask how I think he will return. I do not know. But that is not how he will come. Honestly I am not focused on His return. I am focused on the now. There is much I can do Now. Every day
Only a very very small number of Christians live a life that would be acceptable to Horus, sorry, Christ.
I try to use the same modus operandi/method/process of thinking for all reasoning. An approach based on rational reasoning, critical thinking and evidence seem to produce the best results so I stick to it. It seems to me, that religious people have one set of reasoning for faith and another one for almost all other activities in life. I don´t see the logic behind this.
Rational cognitive thinking would be a start for you. The religion of Christ has been plagiarized very blatantly from other religions in those regions at that time. It was never an original story but has been used to consolidate power and commit acts of atrocity for hundreds of years. Even the four gospels have conflicting stories and timelines. If it was presented in a modern day court of law it would be thrown out and Jesus Christ would be considered nothing but a rumor.I know that is not how Christ will return.
Honestly I am not focused on His return. I am focused on the now. There is much I can do Now. Every day
One last thing I want to say, you don't know how he will return but you know it won't be that way, such a Christian thing to say. That is how hate and bigotry is justified, "I don't know how but I just do".
Living the life per Christ's teaching is not an absolute. It is a journey. I do not believe anyone can claim to have all the answers. Even until the last hour having travelled so much, we are so far...yet He knows this and does not condemn because we are human.
I used to ponder what Christ meant when he said "Be Perfect as My Father in Heaven is Perfect". I did not understand this. Because it is impossible for me to be sinless.
I think he meant Do not judge others. When I do not judge I am free.
Have you actually read the bible and listened to the church? Your particular god is about as judgemental and petty as it gets.
I think Christ has said all we need to know to find happiness.
It is a bit like taking the right bus...and I get home. All other buses...I will not.
EDIT: You can read the bible and go to church and come away fully not understanding.
Faith is so personal. I apologize for not being clear.
Before I read the bible or go to church, I ask He open my heart to what he wants me to hear.
See, that's kinda petty innit. Go a mile the wrong the way and you're in hell forever. So much for not being judgemental.
I honestly Believe we make the choice to go to Hell. The wrong bus.
Nothing is determined. Until the very end, we have a choice.
Like the Good Thief.
...And you still fail to see how this makes your god a completely judgemental arsehole?
I can kind of get why people would believe in some form of spirituality. Although not the Christian God as that just came from a fictional book.
And the bit in bold, that's exactly what we are. For instance of the dinosaurs didn't become extinct our equivalent would probably be super intelligent lizard people.
One telling question I've seen Dawkins put to a Christian is "if you were born in a Muslim country, you'd be a Muslim wouldn't you?" Inevitably even the most hard nosed believer must accept this as the truth which highlights how shallow the whole thing is to me.
Ask for ID - it should say Rabbi Yeshua Ben Josef (He wouldn't know what a Jesus Christ is, let alone assume it's his name)
Make sure the food is Kosher.
Altruism has been shown to be mutually beneficial in social animals as far as I'm aware (and therefore evolutionarily favourable). It provides the individual and the group with advantages over those groups and individuals that aren't helpful to each other. I don't think you can pin people being nice to each other on God.
What do you guys (anyone) think would happen if ground breaking evidence came to light that there is no God, evidence like City being a tinpot oil reliant club for instance? That's a hard cold fact
My personal view, is that at first there may be a cover up by the Church/ Governments etc Some of the religious population would cry 'NASA = SATAN = BOMB THE FECKERS'
But over time, Religious believers will decrease in numbers rapidly but like Donald Trump supporters, there will always be those that will continue to believe in God and the story of the Bible over cold hard facts hitting them in the face.
I obviously respect & believe in Christian values, how to treat people etc.
I think Religion will always be with us, regardless of the evidence that comes to light.
I imagine it'll decrease significantly as technology becomes more advanced.
One thing I hate though, you're having a discussion with a Christian and to back up their belief of god - quote the fecking bible.
Bible = man made. To put it into perspective theres just as much evidence to suggest Hogwarts is real as the Bible being the word of God.
If it took God 7 days to create Earth & what the feck happened to those Dinosaurs i don't see anything about them in the Bible?.
How long did it take God to create the Universe, planets 10000s bigger than Earth. Might be billions of planets for all we know.
Why did God create billions of random planets and why on Earth did he build those blackholes? Some of them have the mass of billions of Suns.
Also, if God isn't real how do we exist? We can't come from nothing right? Well by that logic, how does God exist.
My personal view, is that at first there may be a cover up by the Church/ Governments etc Some of the religious population would cry 'NASA = SATAN = BOMB THE FECKERS'
But over time, Religious believers will decrease in numbers rapidly but like Donald Trump supporters, there will always be those that will continue to believe in God and the story of the Bible over cold hard facts hitting them in the face.
I obviously respect & believe in Christian values, how to treat people etc.
I think Religion will always be with us, regardless of the evidence that comes to light.
I imagine it'll decrease significantly as technology becomes more advanced.
One thing I hate though, you're having a discussion with a Christian and to back up their belief of god - quote the fecking bible.
Bible = man made. To put it into perspective theres just as much evidence to suggest Hogwarts is real as the Bible being the word of God.
If it took God 7 days to create Earth & what the feck happened to those Dinosaurs i don't see anything about them in the Bible?.
How long did it take God to create the Universe, planets 10000s bigger than Earth. Might be billions of planets for all we know.
Why did God create billions of random planets and why on Earth did he build those blackholes? Some of them have the mass of billions of Suns.
Also, if God isn't real how do we exist? We can't come from nothing right? Well by that logic, how does God exist.
Jesus wept.
Your asking questions that defy human logic. And the arrogance of human logic logic is that it assumes it's the be all and end all.
Actually thats a large part of the reason i believe in a 'god'
Something would have had to have come from nothing at some point or else the universe has existed in perpetuity with a series of big bangs / big implosions.
I just find the idea of eternity ... hard to accept somehow.
My definition of god is pretty loose and vague though so ...
What do you guys (anyone) think would happen if ground breaking evidence came to light that there is no God, evidence like City being a tinpot oil reliant club for instance? That's a hard cold fact
My personal view, is that at first there may be a cover up by the Church/ Governments etc Some of the religious population would cry 'NASA = SATAN = BOMB THE FECKERS'
But over time, Religious believers will decrease in numbers rapidly but like Donald Trump supporters, there will always be those that will continue to believe in God and the story of the Bible over cold hard facts hitting them in the face.
I obviously respect & believe in Christian values, how to treat people etc.
I think Religion will always be with us, regardless of the evidence that comes to light.
I imagine it'll decrease significantly as technology becomes more advanced.
One thing I hate though, you're having a discussion with a Christian and to back up their belief of god - quote the fecking bible.
Bible = man made. To put it into perspective theres just as much evidence to suggest Hogwarts is real as the Bible being the word of God.
If it took God 7 days to create Earth & what the feck happened to those Dinosaurs i don't see anything about them in the Bible?.
How long did it take God to create the Universe, planets 10000s bigger than Earth. Might be billions of planets for all we know.
Why did God create billions of random planets and why on Earth did he build those blackholes? Some of them have the mass of billions of Suns.
Also, if God isn't real how do we exist? We can't come from nothing right? Well by that logic, how does God exist.
Religion is already decreasing rapidly. There is no such thing as Christian values, this is a fallacy that implies that I cannot for example feel their values unless I am a Christian. They preach human values, that the vast majority of humans don't need telling in order to hold. Morality pre dates Christianity.