I get what you are saying, im mature enough to admit that you are probably right. As for now im a happy Christian
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
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I get what you are saying, im mature enough to admit that you are probably right. As for now im a happy Christian
@Sunny Jim From your posts it seems like you are simply a person who thrives with a portion of spirituality in your life. I think that's a common trait for many people, atheist or not. If the Christian god fulfils that role, then so be it. As long as you don't want the lives of other people to be determined by cruel ruels in an ancient book, most atheists won't have a problem with it. I'm as god-rejecting as they come, but I've long since realized that some people really are better off believing in a sort of god, however unspecific that may be.
Well the Jesus that asks me for change outside the shops eats Big Macs. I would also ask him why he is the a white man born in Palestine.
The very first time in human history were a young innocent child was slaughtered proves that there is no all seeing Jerry Garcia in the clouds controlling everything on this random rock amongst trillions of other random rocks.What do you guys (anyone) think would happen if ground breaking evidence came to light that there is no God, evidence like City being a tinpot oil reliant club for instance? That's a hard cold fact
My personal view, is that at first there may be a cover up by the Church/ Governments etc Some of the religious population would cry 'NASA = SATAN = BOMB THE FECKERS'
But over time, Religious believers will decrease in numbers rapidly but like Donald Trump supporters, there will always be those that will continue to believe in God and the story of the Bible over cold hard facts hitting them in the face.
I obviously respect & believe in Christian values, how to treat people etc.
I think Religion will always be with us, regardless of the evidence that comes to light.
I imagine it'll decrease significantly as technology becomes more advanced.
One thing I hate though, you're having a discussion with a Christian and to back up their belief of god - quote the fecking bible.
Bible = man made. To put it into perspective theres just as much evidence to suggest Hogwarts is real as the Bible being the word of God.
If it took God 7 days to create Earth & what the feck happened to those Dinosaurs i don't see anything about them in the Bible?.
How long did it take God to create the Universe, planets 10000s bigger than Earth. Might be billions of planets for all we know.
Why did God create billions of random planets and why on Earth did he build those blackholes? Some of them have the mass of billions of Suns.
Also, if God isn't real how do we exist? We can't come from nothing right? Well by that logic, how does God exist.
Only a handful out of billions of people can understand the concept of time outside of our own atmosphere so the stories told by the Abrahamic religions that contain a lot of details now debunked by science should be enough for you to have serious doubts.
If you really want to have an informed position read up or watch the history told in the Hindi religion, or the origin stories by native Americans/Aztecs/Mayans/incas. Australian Aboriginal people orally pass down there history so it is serious stuff. Open your mind my friend and explore these ancient people, you will have you're mind blown.
We seem to have had a very similar journey to where we are today in regards to religion.
I was brought up in church but always had doubts about the factual nature of the stories we were told. Then went to a church affiliated university where we took in depth bible classes and that's where it really became evident for me.
I'd not consider myself atheist now. I'm definitely not a fan of organized religion. More agnostic deism I guess. I think there is something else, but I have no idea what or how to describe it and doubt anyone ever will know. I'm still trying to figure it all out.
Yeah i've read a bunch of ... I dunno, spiritual ... stuff? I imagine I'll continue looking into bits and pieces every so often.
Debunking the speculations of thousand year old philosophers doesn't mean much to me though.
I still find the concept of eternity difficult to accept. Something about it that just doesn't ... compute (?) for me
We have a fairly solid idea of how this universe started but what was there before it is anyone's guess.
If the universe basically exploded into life from nothingness i'd consider that a god like event that warrants a degree of ... awe (?)
I'm not into the whole worship thing or the judgemental dude who smites stuff.
I think were too irrelevant to give a shit about
But i do believe in something 'bigger' than us i guess.
I had a relationship with Jesus but he assured me it was only sexual.
I worked on this a while back but never posted (to FB)... it's not finished tbh, still in draft form, and I may never actually post. My family and friends know my belief but I don't act militant about it, or interject when I see religious posts. Herego...
My path to atheism. I'm not afraid to admit my belief, or lack thereof.
I once saw a Facebook post from a former coworker, "You don't believe in God. How could you not believe in God?"
I chose not to comment. My comment would do nothing positive in regards to the post. It would only draw negative comments from believers, typical pointing of the fingers by Christians, and perhaps a few supportive comments from nonbelievers. My journey to atheism came about as my own intellect and enlightenment developed. It also helped reading scriptures with an open mind and not a closed off mind that relies on faith when normal human questioning (instinct) occurs. Cognitive dissonance plays a large role in our beliefs, more on that later.
I grew up in the suburbs of Fort Worth, TX. One thing that most Texans share is a religious foundation. I attended church often in my childhood days, mostly through parental inference (parental in this circumstance means grandparents; I was raised most of my life by my grandparents). Raised Baptist but often questioning things that simply bewildered a young child. Stuff like talking snakes, man living inside a whale, unicorns, a great flood, thousands of animals on a boat with only a few humans, a dead man raised up, a planet less than 10,000 years old. The kind of things that through education we are taught to question, to seek evidence. Yet in the religious world we are to not question scripture but rely on faith. I was often left without answers.
Faith. Faith is basically a belief without evidence to support. I would often wonder why God didn't just show up. Why weren't miracles of biblical proportions still in existence today. Why did this God that led millions of Jewish slaves out of Egypt turn his back on millions of Jews in Nazi Germany (btw, there is zero evidence of Jewish slaves in Egypt as Exodus reports; lots of evidence of Jewish prisoners in Nazi Germany). Why would this God allow kids to starve to death, and other kids to be murdered and/or raped by adults? A god as arrogant and vain as the one depicted in the Old Testament would certainly ensure his/her/its presence is known to all. Anyone that reads scriptures with an open mind, not as a religious apologist, would see this view.
I stuck with my faith through the years but things began to change as I aged into my 20s. I noticed a far less need for the social network that church offered in my youth. I felt an independence in myself that I could achieve things in life, not rely on prayer to achieve, and made friends through various channels. The questioning of religion from my youth would spring in my head here and there but I simply continued on as a believer but not as a regular practitioner of faith or church goer. Technically, I did as the oft-quoted Bible instructed, to pray in private, and not make a public spectacle of it (which seemingly is the way most religious are, blasting their beliefs in public and judging all others).
September 11, 2001, began a change in my belief system. We were attacked by a very small pocket of radicals that had their ideology, and their interpretations of their religious scripture led them to believe they were acting in the name of their god. Funny enough, it's not limited to that group of radicals - plenty of Christians have often acted in accord to their own ideology, all religions have. "Which god is right?" became the new question. A question that can be answered easily today - none. There is no god. There are no gods.
A loving god simply would not allow madness on this scale to exist. A loving god would not allow famine, genocide, pillage, rape, and so much more. My travels across the US and the rise of the internet that allowed people from different cultures to interact, had exposed me to various beliefs, various answers to questions that were never answered by the supposed "wise" elders of the clergy and family in youth. But still I carried on in the months following 9/11 with a loose belief of god. No more devout belief. Very little faith. I was more agnostic than anything else. I couldn't prove nor disprove the existence of a possible creator.
Finally, December 26, 2004, Boxing Day. This would be my awakening so to speak. A tsunami struck the Indian Ocean and rocked many islands and countries in the surrounding area. We had little warning. The waves came in at speeds of an airliner. Over 200,000 people would perish that day. Children, animals, people of all nationalities, of all races, and of all religions died. Businesses were destroyed, cities and towns as well. Some of the most religious people in the world died that day. People that believed fully in a god that loved him or her. Where was this god? No where to be found, per usual. I guess he was too busy helping politicians con constituents, crooks steal more money from the unsuspecting, murders and genocides, and on and on and on. Free will, the greatest religious apology on record, is often the response to evil, bad deeds, and whatnot. It's an admission of, "Good point. Hmm. I can't explain that either." So we blame the bad things on Satan, the poor sod.
My faith had now been replaced by a new belief, or lack of belief is more apt - atheism. God is simply a creation of man, created in primitive eras when man couldn't explain the sun, the moon, the stars, the rain, the droughts, the famine, and death. Humans have this innate need to know beginning and end, we know we are not immortal, and thus the afterlife is created to satisfy our empathy, our desire to reunite with deceased loved ones. to satiate our fear of death. Polytheism dominated for centuries then came monotheism. And soon enough a god was credited will all the good but what/who was responsible for the bad? Enter the creation of the devil, or Satan. Then came the Romans circa 100 CE. If you truly want to understand why the Christianity we know today exists, do some (open minded) research on the Romans influence between 100-400 CE, and pay close attention to Constantine, amongst other Roman emperors.
---(cont)---
My path to atheism. I'm not afraid to admit my belief, or lack thereof.
I once saw a Facebook post from a former coworker, "You don't believe in God. How could you not believe in God?"
I chose not to comment. My comment would do nothing positive in regards to the post. It would only draw negative comments from believers, typical pointing of the fingers by Christians, and perhaps a few supportive comments from nonbelievers. My journey to atheism came about as my own intellect and enlightenment developed. It also helped reading scriptures with an open mind and not a closed off mind that relies on faith when normal human questioning (instinct) occurs. Cognitive dissonance plays a large role in our beliefs, more on that later.
I grew up in the suburbs of Fort Worth, TX. One thing that most Texans share is a religious foundation. I attended church often in my childhood days, mostly through parental inference (parental in this circumstance means grandparents; I was raised most of my life by my grandparents). Raised Baptist but often questioning things that simply bewildered a young child. Stuff like talking snakes, man living inside a whale, unicorns, a great flood, thousands of animals on a boat with only a few humans, a dead man raised up, a planet less than 10,000 years old. The kind of things that through education we are taught to question, to seek evidence. Yet in the religious world we are to not question scripture but rely on faith. I was often left without answers.
Faith. Faith is basically a belief without evidence to support. I would often wonder why God didn't just show up. Why weren't miracles of biblical proportions still in existence today. Why did this God that led millions of Jewish slaves out of Egypt turn his back on millions of Jews in Nazi Germany (btw, there is zero evidence of Jewish slaves in Egypt as Exodus reports; lots of evidence of Jewish prisoners in Nazi Germany). Why would this God allow kids to starve to death, and other kids to be murdered and/or raped by adults? A god as arrogant and vain as the one depicted in the Old Testament would certainly ensure his/her/its presence is known to all. Anyone that reads scriptures with an open mind, not as a religious apologist, would see this view.
I stuck with my faith through the years but things began to change as I aged into my 20s. I noticed a far less need for the social network that church offered in my youth. I felt an independence in myself that I could achieve things in life, not rely on prayer to achieve, and made friends through various channels. The questioning of religion from my youth would spring in my head here and there but I simply continued on as a believer but not as a regular practitioner of faith or church goer. Technically, I did as the oft-quoted Bible instructed, to pray in private, and not make a public spectacle of it (which seemingly is the way most religious are, blasting their beliefs in public and judging all others).
September 11, 2001, began a change in my belief system. We were attacked by a very small pocket of radicals that had their ideology, and their interpretations of their religious scripture led them to believe they were acting in the name of their god. Funny enough, it's not limited to that group of radicals - plenty of Christians have often acted in accord to their own ideology, all religions have. "Which god is right?" became the new question. A question that can be answered easily today - none. There is no god. There are no gods.
A loving god simply would not allow madness on this scale to exist. A loving god would not allow famine, genocide, pillage, rape, and so much more. My travels across the US and the rise of the internet that allowed people from different cultures to interact, had exposed me to various beliefs, various answers to questions that were never answered by the supposed "wise" elders of the clergy and family in youth. But still I carried on in the months following 9/11 with a loose belief of god. No more devout belief. Very little faith. I was more agnostic than anything else. I couldn't prove nor disprove the existence of a possible creator.
Finally, December 26, 2004, Boxing Day. This would be my awakening so to speak. A tsunami struck the Indian Ocean and rocked many islands and countries in the surrounding area. We had little warning. The waves came in at speeds of an airliner. Over 200,000 people would perish that day. Children, animals, people of all nationalities, of all races, and of all religions died. Businesses were destroyed, cities and towns as well. Some of the most religious people in the world died that day. People that believed fully in a god that loved him or her. Where was this god? No where to be found, per usual. I guess he was too busy helping politicians con constituents, crooks steal more money from the unsuspecting, murders and genocides, and on and on and on. Free will, the greatest religious apology on record, is often the response to evil, bad deeds, and whatnot. It's an admission of, "Good point. Hmm. I can't explain that either." So we blame the bad things on Satan, the poor sod.
My faith had now been replaced by a new belief, or lack of belief is more apt - atheism. God is simply a creation of man, created in primitive eras when man couldn't explain the sun, the moon, the stars, the rain, the droughts, the famine, and death. Humans have this innate need to know beginning and end, we know we are not immortal, and thus the afterlife is created to satisfy our empathy, our desire to reunite with deceased loved ones. to satiate our fear of death. Polytheism dominated for centuries then came monotheism. And soon enough a god was credited will all the good but what/who was responsible for the bad? Enter the creation of the devil, or Satan. Then came the Romans circa 100 CE. If you truly want to understand why the Christianity we know today exists, do some (open minded) research on the Romans influence between 100-400 CE, and pay close attention to Constantine, amongst other Roman emperors.
---(cont)---
Cognitive dissonance plays a massive role in how our individual belief system is sustained over the years. Cognitive dissonance is defined: A conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistencies between one's beliefs and one's actions or other beliefs. Religion often takes a core hold within a person's mind, and thus can be hard for many to push away. Cognitive dissonance forces a person to stave off words, thoughts, even evidence, that instinctively makes us question internally, or you choose to accept the inconsistency and venture into it, possibly leading you to new discoveries or beliefs.
We all question things in life, and you would be lying if you claim to have never questioned your religion or any other religions. That's your instinct - your cognitive dissonance keeps you stuck to what you've always believed, or want to believe. Conspiracy theorists have a similar problem with cognitive dissonance; they believe in outlandish conspiracies despite mountains of evidence that defeats their beliefs. I managed to get over my cognitive dissonance shaped by religious indoctrination and formulate my own ideas, often aided by intense research and debates, while slowly eliminating things that were indoctrinated and instilled through my formative years (childhood, youth).
I have developed an internal locus of control as a result of mental growth. This is a great control to experience - you realize you are in control of your own being more often than not. No more pessimism about life, people, work, etc. You can make it or break it. We can't control weather (well, conspiracy loons think so) but we can control our self. It's fantastic to no longer live in fear of death and the afterlife, one that is often preached of a potential eternity in hell, by a "loving god" nonetheless. Goddamn, life is good, and I for one will live it without oppressive dogma.
I don't have hostility towards religious persons, although I simply do not see how adults believe in fairytales, but indoctrination roots itself deep into the mind and is difficult to eliminate. However, I will not condone religious influence in our law and education. Creationism is not real, and if taught in a classroom should be taught as pseudoscience alongside mythology. And atheism is not a religion, just like bald is not a hair color.
I don't follow a scripture, or a set of rules set about by an ancient text, or meet up with others to worship. I simply follow my human instinct to hold empathy and show compassion for others, while also doing what I need to survive. I don't need a religion to be righteous and to enforce my own morality, and religious persons are no more moral than non-religious persons. This is one of the fallacies created by organized religion, the moral superiority complex, but I digress. More than 95% of incarcerated persons in the US claim to be religious, some of them quit devout. Oh but the apologist claims, "They're not true Christians!" Bullshit. Read the Bible. Notice the amount of genocides, rapes, murders, jealousy, greed, etc. that occurs throughout. Look at history in how Christianity has slaughtered thousands (as have other religions).
I'll end this with a Cherokee Proverb...
There is a battle of two wolves insides us all. One is evil. It is anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, lies, inferiority and ego. The other is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy and truth.
The wolf that wins? The one you feed.
Religious persons have been some of the worst wolves in recorded history. And no one has the right to state, "They're not true (insert religion)!" You aren't inside their hearts and minds, and you are commanded to, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." A sin is a sin, right? The hypocrisy of it all.
Scott
We all question things in life, and you would be lying if you claim to have never questioned your religion or any other religions. That's your instinct - your cognitive dissonance keeps you stuck to what you've always believed, or want to believe. Conspiracy theorists have a similar problem with cognitive dissonance; they believe in outlandish conspiracies despite mountains of evidence that defeats their beliefs. I managed to get over my cognitive dissonance shaped by religious indoctrination and formulate my own ideas, often aided by intense research and debates, while slowly eliminating things that were indoctrinated and instilled through my formative years (childhood, youth).
I have developed an internal locus of control as a result of mental growth. This is a great control to experience - you realize you are in control of your own being more often than not. No more pessimism about life, people, work, etc. You can make it or break it. We can't control weather (well, conspiracy loons think so) but we can control our self. It's fantastic to no longer live in fear of death and the afterlife, one that is often preached of a potential eternity in hell, by a "loving god" nonetheless. Goddamn, life is good, and I for one will live it without oppressive dogma.
I don't have hostility towards religious persons, although I simply do not see how adults believe in fairytales, but indoctrination roots itself deep into the mind and is difficult to eliminate. However, I will not condone religious influence in our law and education. Creationism is not real, and if taught in a classroom should be taught as pseudoscience alongside mythology. And atheism is not a religion, just like bald is not a hair color.
I don't follow a scripture, or a set of rules set about by an ancient text, or meet up with others to worship. I simply follow my human instinct to hold empathy and show compassion for others, while also doing what I need to survive. I don't need a religion to be righteous and to enforce my own morality, and religious persons are no more moral than non-religious persons. This is one of the fallacies created by organized religion, the moral superiority complex, but I digress. More than 95% of incarcerated persons in the US claim to be religious, some of them quit devout. Oh but the apologist claims, "They're not true Christians!" Bullshit. Read the Bible. Notice the amount of genocides, rapes, murders, jealousy, greed, etc. that occurs throughout. Look at history in how Christianity has slaughtered thousands (as have other religions).
I'll end this with a Cherokee Proverb...
There is a battle of two wolves insides us all. One is evil. It is anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, lies, inferiority and ego. The other is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy and truth.
The wolf that wins? The one you feed.
Religious persons have been some of the worst wolves in recorded history. And no one has the right to state, "They're not true (insert religion)!" You aren't inside their hearts and minds, and you are commanded to, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." A sin is a sin, right? The hypocrisy of it all.
Scott
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TL;DR - Scott's an atheist
Except on matchdays when MUFC is my religion.
What a cnut, expecting folk to read summat that long.
I think you must have been talking to other believers or at least only listening to believers who were telling you what you wanted to hear.
So does my dog. Your point being?
I really don't. Know god or know what you meant.
Religion has very little to so with simply helping others and you can help others just as much without religious beliefs. In fact the most sefless moral people I know are all atheists (barring one cool vicar).
Religious people tend to only help those that are in their club or those that they are trying to get into their club.
So, am I going to Heaven or Hell?
A few years ago I stopped a girl that was slashing her wrists and taking pills.
Years before that, I did a shit in Stockport multi-storey car park and then dropped it over the edge near some people.
A few years ago I stopped a girl that was slashing her wrists and taking pills.
Years before that, I did a shit in Stockport multi-storey car park and then dropped it over the edge near some people.
Atheist cnut... ahem.
Don't you work in some high-end physics lab?
Would that were true, but I see no evidence that there is a natural or inevitable progression towards the death of religion for a whole variety of societal and psychological reasons.
I shall sacrifice a lamb to Apollo tonight, so that he may make your prediction true.
Hell. You should have taken the girl to the town square, got some of your friends and all thrown stones at her. That's how you get into heaven.
Neither exist. I'm not sure if that is good or bad for you.
you are wrong.
Certainly not in the poorer, less educated parts of the world but definitely the case in the west where people have more access to information where they can deconflict and juxtapose information through technology.
You say you can't accept eternity yet surely your God would have to be eternal?
We'll never get to the point where religion goes extinct, though. There is a deep desire for transcendency in a large number of people, which is completely unaffected by education and information.
God as a means to understand the world will die, God in whatever local flavor to offer solace and a perspective for an eternal existance won't ever.
Not so sure about that.
My impression about secularisation: Christianity in Europe, mainly yes. Christianity in the US, no (but it's contested). Islam in the West, a definitive no; the re-Islamisation is in full stride and intensifying. Judaism seems to have gotten more religious, too. Various sects, esoteric and superstitious beliefs are massively on the rise since the last third of the 20th century.
I have the general impression of a simultaneity of an ongoing secularisation and a strong & growing religious renaissance in the West since 40-50 years.
Nope .... not sure why you think that?
I think there was a beginning at some point
How do you exempt God from this idea?
Then you could just as easily say the beginning was the big bang?
Sure pretty much
Or a big bowl of space pasta
Oh come on, there's usually some preaching that goes with christian charity.
The organisation I have worked with was interested in preventing children primarily from starving to death. Places like Africa, Philipines, Nicaragua and Haiiti.
Doubt there was anything attached to the help they were giving. That it was not a condition I'm sure. In Africa for example the majority are Muslims. Doubt they are only going to Christian communities.
Don't be fusilli.
Christianity in the US is definitely plummeted off a cliff. Just look at the social norms of today compared with 30 years ago.
I've said before that if religion was gone I'd doubt people would help each other as much. It's the only reason I think religion is any good.
I'm sure it will sooner or later. The more knowledge we accrue and the less compartmentalized our social systems are, the less religion will be de-legitimized as a relevant or acceptable concept. Just because it has been around since the early days, does not mean it's an eternal construct. In fact we are currently in the early days of 100 or so year process of a general divestment from religion towards ideas that are beneficial to all humans, not shallow identity plays from the past.