Religion, what's the point?

Aah, now there's a tough one.

For one, we're currently managing to feck up the biosphere of the only known planet to have ever originated life. For virtually the rest of the species on earth, our demise would be a good thing.

I always thought that if the only 'purpose' of the species is to pass on their genes to the next generation, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter if we're fecking up the planet or not. You're not suddenly attributing value to the existence of other species? ;)
 
I always thought that if the only 'purpose' of the species is to pass on their genes to the next generation, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter if we're fecking up the planet or not. You're not suddenly attributing value to the existence of other species? ;)

Suddenly? I've always attributed value to other species. Obviously, though, if we're not here there would be no-one to attribute value... There would only be nature doing its thing... At least until another species went the way of humans, if that were to be the course they took.

That is of course the second part of the issue... The lights would be on but nobody would be home on the planet earth, at least by human definition. At the same time, isn't that better than humans slowly eradicating what took evolution billions of years to construct? We could feasibly press the reset button for the whole thing, y'know.
 
Suddenly? I've always attributed value to other species. Obviously, though, if we're not here there would be no-one to attribute value... There would only be nature doing its thing... At least until another species went the way of humans, if that were to be the course they took.

That is of course the second part of the issue... The lights would be on but nobody would be home on the planet earth, at least by human definition. At the same time, isn't that better than humans slowly eradicating what took evolution billions of years to construct? We could feasibly press the reset button for the whole thing, y'know.

It's difficult to say what would be better because there was no toil and effort involved in the evolution of everything. Nature doesn't engage in self-reflection and isn't working towards anything. There's no objective measure, really. Waste is what we say is waste.

What do you mean by the reset button?
 
It's difficult to say what would be better because there was no toil and effort involved in the evolution of everything. Nature doesn't engage in self-reflection and isn't working towards anything. There's no objective measure, really. Waste is what we say is waste.

What do you mean by the reset button?

True... Even still, evolution managed to make humans that are capable of such reflection and improvement, and I know you'd claim a divine guiding hand, but many would say that by extension evolution and biology has demonstrated such capacity. That's hardly a discussion that'll be settled between people with radically different outlooks, though.

By reset button I mean, for example, nuclear winter or the ravages of climate change causing mass-extinction on such a scale that we'd be set back to having nothing but microbial/bacterial life, and the slow ascent towards complexity having to start anew.
 
True... Even still, evolution managed to make humans that are capable of such reflection and improvement, and I know you'd claim a divine guiding hand, but many would say that by extension evolution and biology has demonstrated such capacity. That's hardly a discussion that'll be settled between people with radically different outlooks, though.

By reset button I mean, for example, nuclear winter or the ravages of climate change causing mass-extinction on such a scale that we'd be set back to having nothing but microbial/bacterial life, and the slow ascent towards complexity having to start anew.

It's been a while since I studied cognitive evolution but I remember it being the most unconvincing part of the theory. We were literally talking about magic at some point.
 
It's been a while since I studied cognitive evolution but I remember it being the most unconvincing part of the theory. We were literally talking about magic at some point.

Consciousness kind of IS magic, at this point. The human brain is the most complex thing we know of in the universe, and we're using it to study it. The efficacy of scientific method notwithstanding, it's like trying to bite your own teeth or look at the back of your head. We don't even have a proper definition of consciousness. Little wonder we've not cracked it yet, but as has been proven before, just because it seems hard at one point doesn't mean that paradigmes will change and science will progress to the point that we do later on. The people saying "we'll figure it out" have a far better track record than the ones saying "God did it".
 
Strictly on the book no Christians are going to heaven while they stand idly by and let poor people starve. Mind you on that basis God should be evicted too.
 
It's been a while since I studied cognitive evolution but I remember it being the most unconvincing part of the theory. We were literally talking about magic at some point.

Why would it be unconvincing? Like any other trait that is carried by genes improved intelligence/cognitive abilities simply needs to convey a reproductive advantage to proliferate.
 
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Why would it be unconvincing? Like any other trait that is carried by genes improved intelligence/cognitive abilities simply needs to convey a reproductive advantage to proliferate.

I believe his qualm is more to do with how such a thing as consciousness comes about in the materialistic account of things.
 
If you believe the universe is fine tuned by a creator then you have to explain how you know there is only one universe because if there are many in a multi-verse then you can not know that it isn't chance. You also have to rule out the idea that there are reasons for the supposedly fine tuned values created by underlying physics we don't understand yet.

Fry attacks the indefensible position of most religions that god is benign and all powerful, Russell doesn't seem to understand the argument he is disagreeing with.
 
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I think the point of 'religion' is it enables people to make 'sense' of my life.
No longer do I need to search for 'meaning' as the 'wise' men such as Fry have answered all my questions.
And if I ever feel myself in a state of anxiety, and leaning towards's the 'spiritual' i just open this thread and everything once again makes sense.
 
I'm posting this in both the Religion and American politics thread as it crosses both thresholds.

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/ca...applied-pressure-to-adopt/Content?oid=3725371

Casting out demons: why Justin Harris got rid of kids he applied pressure to adopt
Rep. Justin Harris blames DHS for the fallout related to his adoption of three young girls, but sources familiar with the situation contradict his story and paint a troubling picture of the adoption process and the girls' time in the Harris household.
 
This kind of nonsense baffles my mind. Your god just sent a powerful storm that wrecked havoc all over the town and killed one man.

The quotes at the bottom of the page are fantastic. Especially the fact that telephone polls resemble crosses (crucifixes) whether in ground or snapped by storms.

http://q13fox.com/2015/03/25/god-is-with-us-a-symbol-of-hope-found-among-tornado-debris-in-oklahoma/
You should know by now where the priorities of Abrahamic God lie. Sending obscure hints of his existence in first world countries while ignoring the parts of the world that really need help.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/12/uk-one-of-worlds-least-religious-countries-survey-finds
The UK is among the least religious countries in the world, according to a new survey. In a global ranking of 65 countries, the UK came six places from last, with 30% of the population calling themselves religious.

While 53% of people said they were not religious, only 13% said they were a convinced atheist and the remainder did not know how to define themselves.

This compares with 94% of people in Thailand and 93% of people in Armenia, Bangladesh, Georgia and Morocco who said they were religious.

At the bottom of the list was China where only 6% of people said they were religious while 61% said they were convinced atheists.

This was followed by Japan, where just 13% of people were religious, Sweden with 19%, Czech Republic with 23%, and the Netherlands and Hong Kong with 26%.

Jean-Marc Leger, president of Win/Gallup International, said globally an average of two-thirds of people still consider themselves religious. “Religion continues to dominate our everyday lives and we see that the total number of people who consider themselves to be religious is actually relatively high,” he said.

“Furthermore, with the trend of an increasingly religious youth globally, we can assume that the number of people who consider themselves religious will only continue to increase.”

Overall, those under 34 tend to be more religious than other age groups, as do those without a formal education, but in general religious people are a majority in all educational levels.

The poll questioned 63,898 people – about 1,000 in each country – at the end of last year.
 
If you believe the universe is fine tuned by a creator

This argument makes my brain want to exit left. If the universe wasn't as it is we wouldn't be here to butcher logic so freely.

Humans can think that Earth suits them so much that God must have made it for them simply because conditions allowed life to start and evolve. There is no such intelligent life on Mars to think anything. A universe unlike the one we have would be like mars.
 
This kind of nonsense baffles my mind. Your god just sent a powerful storm that wrecked havoc all over the town and killed one man.

The quotes at the bottom of the page are fantastic. Especially the fact that telephone polls resemble crosses (crucifixes) whether in ground or snapped by storms.

http://q13fox.com/2015/03/25/god-is-with-us-a-symbol-of-hope-found-among-tornado-debris-in-oklahoma/
One of thousanss of functional item that look like a tall cross now looks like a shorter cross after being snapped out of the ground by a tornado.

A sure sign of god :rolleyes:
 
Religion and sexual licentiousness are opposite sides of the same coin; most religions seem to be propelled by guilt and pleasure curtailment, especially that of others. The imaginary fella sees everything. Both religion and rollicking sex are the best of craic when confined to consenting adults.
 
This argument makes my brain want to exit left. If the universe wasn't as it is we wouldn't be here to butcher logic so freely.

Humans can think that Earth suits them so much that God must have made it for them simply because conditions allowed life to start and evolve. There is no such intelligent life on Mars to think anything. A universe unlike the one we have would be like mars.

Speaking of, do you think Mars ever had life, be it intelligent or not?
 
It will be interesting to find out.

If there is life there now I'd suspect that it will be deep underground and unicellular as conditions now are very inhospitable. Simply discovering that life evolved independently so close to another instance of life arising on Earth would be a hugely important find. It would suggest that the universe was teeming with life (relatively).

If there was life there (but now gone) I doubt it had time to evolve to anywhere near the complexity we see on early but even of it simply made the leap from unicellular to some sort of multicellular life then this would also be hugely important as it would suggest that once life has a risen that the jump from unicellular to multicellular isn't difficult/unusual. This would not only suggest that the universe was full of life but that "ghigher" forms of life were likley.

All this informs our view of the Fermi Paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox which will help us know if we are really unusual or screwed (all advanced civilisations self destruct or get destroyed by ????).
 
All atheists here should check out Salon, a left-wing online news site. There's done great anti-religion stuff on it you can find every day.

The Holy Book is referred to the "magic book" and much more. Great reading! And they smash conservatives of all stripes for bonus points.
 
All atheists here should check out Salon, a left-wing online news site. There's done great anti-religion stuff on it you can find every day.

The Holy Book is referred to the "magic book" and much more. Great reading! And they smash conservatives of all stripes for bonus points.
So last century.
 
I miss Herman.

Question for the board: What is the link between Buddhism and science? Was having a discussion online with someone who made a comment alluding to it. I classified such links as pseudoscience and he asked me to "have an open mind". Was he spouting bollocks as I suspected, or is there a genuine link?
 
I miss Herman.

Question for the board: What is the link between Buddhism and science? Was having a discussion online with someone who made a comment alluding to it. I classified such links as pseudoscience and he asked me to "have an open mind". Was he spouting bollocks as I suspected, or is there a genuine link?

Deepak Chopra ?
 
All atheists here should check out Salon, a left-wing online news site. There's done great anti-religion stuff on it you can find every day.

The Holy Book is referred to the "magic book" and much more. Great reading! And they smash conservatives of all stripes for bonus points.

Go on then Gannicus - what's your inevitable argument in favor of why Religion is the way forward ?
 
Suppose science isn't totally right about everything and wrong about a lot and doesn't even get to the basic stuff, and suppose the worlds religions are not totally wrong, and its a draw after extra time? What then? Penalties? Too much chance and not enough skill? A golden goal?
 
Deepak Chopra ?

He represents a new age pick and mix, don't make him a representative of Buddhism ;P

Carl Sagan interviewed the Dalai Lama once... one question was what to do if Buddhist teaching goes against scientific fact. The Dalai Lama said that one discards that Buddhist teaching in that case.

Suppose science isn't totally right about everything and wrong about a lot and doesn't even get to the basic stuff, and suppose the worlds religions are not totally wrong, and its a draw after extra time? What then? Penalties? Too much chance and not enough skill? A golden goal?

You're going to have to explain what the footballing parts of those metaphors are meant to represent, I'm a bit dim, I fear :S