That would completely defeat the point of religion though, wouldn't it? If you could prove a god existed you wouldn't need faith, which is what religion is all about.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
You're not running from this conversation, though.
You'd be surprised. I am very open with people so I simply ask if they'd like to discuss the gospel. If they say no, I don't chase them.
Even friends at my church describe me as a volcano but I've never had people make excuses to avoid conversation with me and I don't mind laughing at myself. I just speak honestly into all matters of faith and take Christ seriously, so those who do engage with me always know where they stand because I'd rather look somebody straight in the eye and say what is true of Christ than be a charmer or a people pleaser.
Why though? Why would/should an all knowing, all seeing, benevolent creator of the Universe and loving maker of us in his own image be ridiculously obsessed with putting us all through this weird test? What's the point of that? It's mental.
It's either very obviously the retroactive reasoning of man, or God is a massive cnut.
It is not our job, nor within our capability, to understand the Lord's ways, Mockney. They're mysterious...
Why? Why are they mysterious? And if it's not within our capability to understand His ways, then why does organized religion exist?
Obviously, it's because all religions are man made nonsense, designed to answer questions we don't or didn't know the answer to or to control the people. On the other hand, the existence of a god as creator is one plausible explanation for the existence of the universe.
They are mysterious cause we are imperfect. We don't need to understand, we need to follow faithfully.
God's "mission" isn't, ultimately, to get you to believe in him; it is to have a people set apart for himself who love him more than everything else and to sing praises to his glory for eternity. heaven is not just a nice place you go to when you die; it is a place of eternal fellowship with and eternal worship of the Son of God. Faith is not a test of man, it is a gift of God to man.
The Biblical concept of God testing a person's faith is not to find out whether a person knows God or not (God already knows that) but is a part of God's refining process, just like you refine gold by applying heat to remove all the impurities. What you don't understand is that God has to turn those who are dead in sin into those who are alive to him. It's not some weird test of what people believe, it's God's work in a person to make them a living vessel for the Holy Spirit and to conform them to the image of the Son of God. The result of God's work is faith in Christ. Tried and tested, baptised with water and with fire.
The Biblical narrative isn't about man but about God's salvation of man.
The Biblical concept of God testing a person's faith is not to find out whether a person knows God or not (God already knows that) but is a part of God's refining process, just like you refine gold by applying heat to remove all the impurities. What you don't understand is that God has to turn those who are dead in sin into those who are alive to him. It's not some weird test of what people believe, it's God's work in a person to make them a living vessel for the Holy Spirit and to conform them to the image of the Son of God. The result of God's work is faith in Christ. Tried and tested, baptised with water and with fire.
The Biblical narrative isn't about man but about God's salvation of man.
The concept of god its only plausible if god is completely meaningless. If the concept of god has any meaning it becomes implausible.
Who guards the guards?
HR department.
But if we aren't capable of understanding God's will, then how could be possibly know what exactly we're supposed to faithfully follow? We know it is a historical fact that the Bible was written by men, who presumably were neither capable of understanding His will. How could we know what part of the Bible is actually God's will, and what is put in by equally imperfect men?
No offense but that sounds shit. and twisted
I would require only two things of a god, sentience and unconditional existence. That doesn't make for a compelling object of worship, I'll grant you that.
We pray, listen and hope God guides us in the right direction.
You should take a look at the rest of his posts. He's an eloquent and seemingly perfectly intelligent person, but religious zeal enables him to write some utterly insane things.
I got a bit like that with David Moyes.
That explains exactly nothing. Are you admitting the bible is useless, as written by imperfect men? Are you also admitting organized religion (e.g. Christianity) is useless, as created and headed by imperfect men?
Hmm... I wonder who that makes van Gaal. Perhaps best not to think about it!
Don't recall doing so, no. Those who compiled the Bible did so under God's guidance. Those who head religion do the same.
Definitely taking the analogy in to alarming territory there.
Okay, but then God's will isn't mysterious at all. We've got people both in the past and in the present who have a direct line to God.
Because you view God as an earthly King and think he must, therefore, be proud or unloving. But I tell you, you couldn't be further from the truth. The best thing God can give any person is himself and God wants to give the very best to his people. He won't settle for less and it is right and proper that God receives all honour and all glory. It's why the elders in Revelation are described as throwing the crowns God has adorned them with at the feet of Christ. Everybody who enters into the Kingdom of God will feel this way and will praise him in this way.
I'm pretty sure Hitchens must have been looking at Herman Van Rompuy's posts when he thought of the phrase "heaven is a Celestial North Korea".
All honour and glory to the Dear Leader.
All honour and glory to the Dear Leader.
So he puts us on here, gives us free will and we've got the ability to either achieve eternal happiness or whatever or eternal damnation. Pretty high stakes. Then he doesn't give us any clues to his existence except some books but there are different books to choose from with different teachings and we're expected to pick the right one and interpret it correctly hoping that it wasn't corrupted by man at some point in its creation rendering the whole thing effectively pointless.
I'm just going to have to hope that the eternal damnation isn't quite as bad as it sounds.
I'm just going to have to hope that the eternal damnation isn't quite as bad as it sounds.
Is god not the son of god and the holy spirit all at the same time? So worship of god is worship of all three anyway. Also god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent yes? So he is all powerful so why does he need to be worshipped? He is omniscient and omnipresent so he knows all and time doesnt exist for him so effectively he has all these "chosen people," already with him so there is no need to try to convert anyone at all. I also don't find heaven an apetising place and I think you could make your life on earth a lot more like a type of heaven if we listened more to people rather than preached to them.
It's a mysterious line... God's messages tend to be rather vague and sparse in detail. We can but interpret them the best we can. Like when a partner is pissed off and won't tell you why, in as many words. You know there's a message there and if you really think you can figure it out but it's up to you to put the thought in or suffer the consequences.
New Pope's pretty down with non-believers, so I think we go to heaven anyway, providing we're nice.
My grandmother is quite religious (very uncommon in Norway), and she believes that as long as she prays for me I'll go to heaven whether I believe or not. It's win/win!
Of course, if she only had relatives who were also believers, she probably wouldn't think that. Funny how we let our beliefs be changed by circumstances.
Of course, if she only had relatives who were also believers, she probably wouldn't think that. Funny how we let our beliefs be changed by circumstances.
The bible clearly shows god can be vengeful so he must be proud no?
Sounds fair enough.
Don't want to push your luck, though. Try and avoid blowing up buses full of nuns, etc...
Christopher Hitchens knew what he was rejecting and was completely open and honest about it. I praise God that he knew what he was rejecting. Hitchens likens heaven to a celestial North Korea because he refused to kneel to God. In his mind, God couldn't be worthy of all praise and honour because he hated God. Hitchens wanted to live as a sinner, and free to sin. Rejecting God and choosing sin is what unregenerate man does because he has a will to sin and no will to serve God. That is why people go to hell. Not because God is unknown or mysterious.
He's jealous, Stick, not proud.
Genuine question to any religious history/language buffs we have here. Why do we call Jesus "Jesus", not Joshua? Is it a Roman/Greek thing?
The name Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, a transliteration of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iesous).
Jesus Christ is the Latin equivalent of Yeshua HaMashiach, which is the Hebrew.
Ah right. Does jealousy sound like an emotion an all powerful being should feel. In fact feelings are inaccurate things. Why would you bother having them at all. Oh and again the whole omnipresent, omniscient thing means that he knows everything before it happens for us anyway so why would you get jealous or annoyed? Bit like having read a book and written the script of the said book for a moving you get annoyed with the twist you knew was coming because you wrote it.....
You think they'd have done him the respect of sticking with Yeshua really.
God the Father is jealous for the glory of God the Son.
Psalm 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”