Religion, what's the point?

This argument:

"There is only one side of this argument that teaches impressionable children that their teachings are infallible and that to disobey results in eternal damnation. It logically follows that atheists who reject religion are thus more knowledgable and have better reasons for their beliefs than the religious who mock atheism."

Are you going to squirm around yet still and offer more context for why you made an invalid argument?

:lol: I'm not squirming, I'm right here.

Atheists become atheists for a reason. People born and raised in religion are religious because they were taught to be.

This isn't to say that people born and raised religious don't also truly believe or that atheists always have valid reasons for their choice but there remains the obvious distinction that atheists aren't taken to Sunday school to have messages drilled into them from a young age and they aren't instructed to hold beads while making wishes and saying sorry.
 
I think there are a lot of negative things said about religion in this thread, a lot are probably correct as well. But, I do think there are a lot of positive things to be said about religion, such as how it can give somebody faith and a sense of prupose. From my experience most religious people do not intend to cause any harm or impose things on other people. So I think we should be more careful when passing are judgements about religion, keep an open mind. And this is coming from a staunch athiest!
 
:lol: I'm not squirming, I'm right here.

Atheists become atheists for a reason. People born and raised in religion are religious because they were taught to be.

This isn't to say that people born and raised religious don't also truly believe or that atheists always have valid reasons for their choice but there remains the obvious distinction that atheists aren't taken to Sunday school to have messages drilled into them from a young age and they aren't instructed to hold beads while making wishes and saying sorry.

You're still arguing for the premise. I already stated that even if the premise was true your conclusion is still unjustified. Why can't you just do the intellectually honest thing and acknowledge that? It doesn't make you stupid to realise a mistake, quite the opposite; only fools persist in their folly.
 
You're still arguing for the premise. I already stated that even if the premise was true your conclusion is still unjustified. Why can't you just do the intellectually honest thing and acknowledge that? It doesn't make you stupid to realise a mistake, quite the opposite; only fools persist in their folly.

Yeah why can't I just agree with you and admit you are right!


Probably because I don't believe you are?
 
No because that's precisely what Satan attempted on Jesus in the wilderness.

You don't think Satan has learned any new tricks in 2000 years? Especially since this failure was so publicized.

Either Satan is trying new tricks on the believing or he is so unsophisticated that you no longer need to worry about Him. Sleep tight.
 
You don't think Satan has learned any new tricks in 2000 years? Especially since this failure was so publicized.

Either Satan is trying new tricks on the believing or he is so unsophisticated that you no longer need to worry about Him. Sleep tight.

He doesn't have any trouble getting you with the same one over and over again.
 
And the Church, but an eternity with Christ in the presence of the Father, yes. It's not possible to understand what that means without knowing Christ first. So I can understand why you aren't immediately captivated by the idea.

Well since you know christ can you not tell me what it means?
 
Well since you know christ can you not tell me what it means?

I don't mean to be personal, Grinner. Do you have a wife, or a child or perhaps even some very close friends and family who you really love more than anything else in the world? Imagine if I asked you to describe to me what that's like? Imagine if I asked you to describe to me what intimacy with a woman is like. You could tell me about what happens and the parts of the body, etc, but I wouldn't know anything of the intimacy.

Christ is like nothing I can compare him to. that's the closest I can get for you.
 
I don't mean to be personal, Grinner. Do you have a wife, or a child or perhaps even some very close friends and family who you really love more than anything else in the world? Imagine if I asked you to describe to me what that's like? Imagine if I asked you to describe to me what intimacy with a woman is like. You could tell me about what happens and the parts of the body, etc, but I wouldn't know anything of the intimacy.

Christ is like nothing I can compare him to. that's the closest I can get for you.

But I get pissed off at my wife and we argue sometimes.
 
You're missing the point completely. The Second World War had nothing to do with religion, obviously. But it did have to do with a lot of complicated socio-economic and political issues, and not just "it would have happened for another reason anyway," which is a really lazy argument. Contrary to what you think, things have real life causes that can't just be substituted for one another.

As for your friends who try to "fully understand the transcripts", don't you think suicide bombers genuinely tried to fully understand the transcripts, and arrived at something different than your friends? Furthermore, I can guarantee you that your friends have wildly different takes on scripture than the original Christians from the first centuries CE. One would think the early Christians would have a better idea due to how much closer they were to Jesus in time.

In response to your first paragraph, you have pretty much proved what I was trying to say. Yes saying it "would have happened for another reason anyway" is lazy and I apologize for that but what I am trying to get across here is that there are many other reasons for war and conflict other than religion. If religion never existed and the common reason for most wars was due to politics, would people demand to get rid of government and politics as it's the reason for the majority of world conflict? Probably not. I don't think Religion is the problem but rather the people who use religion to rationalize whatever extremist view they have.

For the second paragraph, please do not assume I am Christian or the friends I was referring to here are Christians. I am an Islam revert. Suicide bombers are in most cases people that have been brainwashed by someone who uses passages out of context for his own agenda. From when I was taught the Quran, my teacher persistently referred to the quote that roughly translates to "If you kill one innocent human being, except in self-defence, then it is like you have killed all of humanity and you will forever burn in hell". For me, that advocates peace rather than terrorism but an extremist can easily look at this and think "those fecking Americans hate us let's kill them in self-defence". Now by looking at this, is the problem what is written in the Quran or is the problem with the person that interpreted it?

The Qur'an repeatedly states that defensive war (fighting to protect yourself against invading enemies) is the only kind of combat sanctioned (2:190 - 191). In various other examples, it teaches that the use of force should be a final resort (2:192, 4:90); that normal relations between people, nations and states, whether Muslim or not, should be peaceful (49:13); that necessary wars must be limited in time and space (2:190); that utmost effort must be applied at all times to advance the cause of peace (10:25); that whatever means are undertaken to work for peace during a conflict (such as mediation and arbitration) must be attempted over and over again until resolution is achieved (8:61); that freedom of religion must be granted to every one (2:256), and so on.

There is a lot of peace in religion but these things are ignored. A lot of people say that the Quran teaches it's followers to preach with the sword but the word "sword" isn't even in the Quran.

As for the bolded part, again you are are being presumptuous. Me and the friends I was talking about follow the teachings of prophet Muhammad and the first three generation of followers, as to stay close to his teachings, because in time, many things have been altered through culture.
 
From when I was taught the Quran, my teacher persistently referred to the quote that roughly translates to "If you kill one innocent human being, except in self-defence, then it is like you have killed all of humanity and you will forever burn in hell". For me, that advocates peace rather than terrorism but an extremist can easily look at this and think "those fecking Americans hate us let's kill them in self-defence". Now by looking at this, is the problem what is written in the Quran or is the problem with the person that interpreted it?

The problem with that quote is that one would not need to kill an innocent person in self defence. Killing in self defence implies that one has already been wronged (i.e. threatened). The sub clause need not be there.