It was all his plan. Strange plan for us to comprehend, of course, but he knows what's best.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
So basically, god was designed by Damon Lindelof.
That reference is Lost on me. coat
The bad is there for us to appreciate the good or know the difference. If everything was a bed of roses don't you think it'll all be taken for granted ?
That's bollocks. You don't need the color green to know what red is.
Yeah because you know what green is...what if you never knew what it should be ? What would you have it to compare to ? What if you lived a life where everything is perfect and you've never experienced hurt or pain would you know the difference ?
Why do I need to know the difference?
Because then we'll all be puppets with a pre ordained plan of how everything should be. We were granted free agency to choose what we want to be, what type of life we want to live. Evil wasn't created by God it's allowed to exist and it's a consequence of the choices people make. They can choose whether to do right or wrong but they have no control of the outcome or consequences. Sometimes the choices we make have good outcomes and sometimes it results in a lot of pain to ourselves or others.
The bad is there for us to take responsibly for our actions. Also how can we resist temptation if it doesn't exist ? Take a child for example if you don't teach them what danger or wrong is they'll never know if they're not exposed to it. If you have a child won't you teach them the difference between good and bad ? Is it not necessary for them to know the difference ? Take communist government as another example of where everything is controlled, not such a good idea. I think everyone prefers a right to decide their own path in life. How can you choose if there's only one way with no fork in the road ? What if you couldn't choose to believe in God or not and it was the only way ?
This isn't something like Mass Effect where everyone starts with the same set of options and has to make the same set of more or less good/evil choices, so we can tot up our godometer. A kid born into a shitty neighbourhood where there's no real chance of getting educated and having a future, ending up as a criminal hasn't been obviously exercising free will. But this is all taken into account by the godster I spose, there'll be some sort of sliding scale. The kid'll have an even better time in heaven after he gets stabbed.
God created everything in the universe. Cept evil, natch. God certainly has a good PR team.
God created everything in the universe. Cept evil, natch. God certainly has a good PR team.
You seem to be under the impression that human suffering is caused by other humans and their supposed free will, when the worst of human suffering is caused by diseases, parasites, droughts and there are also natural events like volcanoes, tsunamis and hurricanes which devastate entire areas. If the Judeo-Christian god exists, then how can these things exist? And don't mention god's fecking plan, because any plan which relies on children getting cancer is inexcusable.
I don't think children getting cancer is a helpful thing to bring in to this debate. I find it unlikely that any of us could speak about such without emotion affecting our words.
If god exist, why can't we criticize his almighty feck ups?
We can, I just think that example doesn't encourage healthy debate. The others you mentioned, which cause just as much hurt, I feel are easier to debate (as irrational as that is).
I've said it before; if god exists then the guy is an absolute cnut of the highest order and bollocks to worshipping the arrogant, twisted, psychopathic arsehole.
Of course, he doesn't exist, and you have to be rather stupid to believe otherwise, but if he does then we should certainly find a way to kill the prick.
Of course, he doesn't exist, and you have to be rather stupid to believe otherwise, but if he does then we should certainly find a way to kill the prick.
If you read a history of magic, superstition and religion, it's so obvious how religion is just a sophisticated version of primitive attempts to control nature and reduce man's fear of his vulnerability to famine and other disasters.
So one minute it's free will, but when that's shown as bollocks, the next one God is just letting things get nasty "to see what happens".
Interesting God to believe in that one...especially since he's supposed to be omnipotent and thus would know what's going to happen.
Maybe he's using us as a big game of populous or something?
Interesting God to believe in that one...especially since he's supposed to be omnipotent and thus would know what's going to happen.
Maybe he's using us as a big game of populous or something?
There's a nuke attached to a rocket with 'cpt. Bruce Willis' written on the side somewhere.
The idiosyncrasies are not, they're just daft. The ability to debunk all of the Abrahamic texts with a primitive grasp of modern physics, biology, astronomy, history, archeology and more to the point that thousands of years later we're resorting to vague and inconsistent metaphorical explanations for them, is.
People arguing for the existence of God always argue from a Deist standpoint. Because a Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc one doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Unless you're color blind. That god, such a prankster.
The theist's answer to the question of evil is absolutely pathetic. It's childish, cowardly and lazy. It states that God allows evil because it is down to our own free will, or it is necessary for us to appreciate the good. The first point can be shot down immediately with the response that much suffering and pain exists as a result of factors beyond what can be put down to free will - natural disasters, parasites, genetic diseases etc. The second can be shown to be nonsense because it is contradictory to the theist's claim that god is the creator and master of the laws of physics. The way religious people deal with this is by either ignoring it or claiming that 'God works in mysterious ways'. There is no other way for them to deal with it.
What's the problem with that?
How about the fact that it carries no more weight than claiming that the Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways?
It's also hypocritical, religions can't claim to know all about god while telling us god works in mysterious ways.
How is that an issue?
I don't think many do claim to know all about God. Just what God and his messengers have told them.
It's a religious apologetic response. Pure delusion. It's calling on faith when reality is smacking one in the face.
"God does not exist"
You have between 100 and 1000 words to put together an argument in disagreement with the above statement. Please provide tangible evidence throughout.
This should get to the bottom of it.
You have between 100 and 1000 words to put together an argument in disagreement with the above statement. Please provide tangible evidence throughout.
This should get to the bottom of it.
Religion does tend to require faith.
How is that a point in its favor?
The vast majority of religious people attribute lots of characteristics to god, you're thinking of deists not theists.
I didn't say it was.
What characteristics are the vast majority attributing to God that aren't based upon what they believe he's told them?
I think the point was that it's like discussing something with a brick wall, as now seems to be the case. Not much point in looking for common ground when the other party believes that gods are in the machine.
I'd describe faith as non evidence based belief in something. I think optimism, and indeed pessimism, are forms of faith. So yes, Glaston's confidence I'd say is faith.
The fact that you've actually typed that and still think of it as a good thing is baffling. It's the exact opposite to how we should be teaching our children to think. If you had faith in most other areas of life you'd be called a mad man. If I said I had faith I would walk off the top of a building and that invisible stairs would be there to guide me to the ground and ended up plummeting to my death people would be questioning my mental health.
You believe in a man in the sky (you have referred to him as him so I assume you believe this), who has an interest in how we live our lives. Out of the billions of planets, around the billions of stars in the billions upon billions of galaxies, you believe that the man on the sky cares about this one, planet earth and not only cares about it but cares for each and every person on it. Not only that, but the only "evidence" to support your belief is "what he has told us and what his messengers have told us". Funny how he was all chat thousands of years ago, but keeps his mouth shut now.
You'd think with twitter and facebook, he'd find it so much easier right?
In any case, I don't think the mental health of anyone who follows religion should ever be in question (well, I should say most), I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to believe in a higher power and have that crutch to lean on when times get tough or indeed be happy in that when they are good. No, what gets me is the following and basing your life on a book. A book of stories written centuries ago BY MAN, which is subject to all the things that can be deemed negative in our nature, and when life was a hell of a lot different. What I believe is the religious texts of any religion are originally about control, not about faith.
I was merely speaking from an Abrahamic perspective. I'm not religous, myself. I'd like to be, as I find the comfort and strength it can give people hugely enviable. Sadly, one cannot force one's self to believe.
Faith is illogical but I don't think that makes it a bad thing. I think a lot of good is born of faith (far more than bad) so it seems irrelevant to me whether it's sensible or not. I care passionately which bunch of men I've never met score more goals than the other bunch of men I've never met. This isn't a remotely logical thing but I get quite a lot out of it, so I don't mind.
Yeah, it's faith but it's not reality, it's not true. Spurs aren't gonna win the league and believers aren't gonna go to heaven. It's a con or delusion.
Con is a strange word to choose. I'm not sure you can con someone into believing something you believe yourself.