RedCafe's top 20 Manchester United players of all-time results

Mockney said:
Bobby Charlton, 760 games (2nd highest at the club) 249 goals (highest at the club + the only midfielder in the top 7) 4 billion assists (I made that one up) Ballon D'or Winner. World Cup Winner. Highest scorer for England too (+ the only midfielder in the top 10)

I'm going to keep saying it until someone acknowledges it. You don't need to have seen him to gage it with those stats.
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I would have certainly had him in the Top 3, no question. Toss up with Best and probably more deserving of No. 1.

Midfielders never win these things though, you need the GPG factor for that and lately people look for whether it breaches 1 as a testament of true player quality :smirk:
 
I agree with Mockney. Charlton should go down as our greatest. He's got the mix of ability, legacy and longevity that your greatest ever should have in my opinion.
 
Bobby Charlton, 760 games (2nd highest at the club) 249 goals (highest at the club + the only midfielder in the top 7) 4 billion assists (I made that one up) Ballon D'or Winner. World Cup Winner. Highest scorer for England too (+ the only midfielder in the top 10)

I'm going to keep saying it until someone acknowledges it. You don't need to have seen him to gage it with those stats.
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I agree.
 
Liam147 said:
If we're judging it solely on who had the most talent, who was the best player at any given moment, I'd probably say Ronaldo, but for me he didn't do it for long enough. On the other hand you have Giggs, who's done it for two decades, but wasn't as good.
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If it was talent then Best would win hands down, assuming you are factoring in talent that wasn't quite fulfilled. If Best had worked on his talent as hard as Ronaldo has he would be up there with Pele and Maradona, just a shame he was such a drinker.
 
Mockney said:
Bobby Charlton, 760 games (2nd highest at the club) 249 goals (highest at the club + the only midfielder in the top 7) 4 billion assists (I made that one up) Ballon D'or Winner. World Cup Winner. Highest scorer for England too (+ the only midfielder in the top 10)

I'm going to keep saying it until someone acknowledges it. You don't need to have seen him to gage it with those stats.
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Yep. It pisses me off the whole 'I won't pick them because I haven't seen them' As soon as I found out I could I went looking for videos and matches of our legends, surely it should be natural to want to see people who have played for your club and may be the best in it's history? It seems some people couldn't give two shits.

You don't need to have watched someone for 100s of games to gauge how good they are.
 
Is it not a bit disingenuous to call Charlton a midfielder? I thought he generally played as an inside-forward, and played on the wing just as often as he played as a midfielder? Not that that takes away from his record in anyway, nor does it change Mockney's point...just curious how the older ones would see him. Was he like a Lampard who burst forward from deep, a #10 who drifted all over like Cantona or a supporting forward like Rooney?
 
antohan said:
Midfielders never win these things though, you need the GPG factor for that and lately people look for whether it breaches 1 as a testament of true player quality :smirk:
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Great Piece of Gash? Goal Poaching Git? Goat Pig Guy?

Yeah it's generally the eye catching flash gits who take the glory. But his record is exceptional without even paying heed to his position. Still All-time top scorer for club & country nearly half a century later is an amazing feat either way. That he did it from Midfield (albiet very offensive midfield) is bangerang.

Imagine the hype around Gerrard or Lampard if they even appraoched that? As it is Stevie is 30 goals and 7 caps off (and about 200 off Liverpool's top) and Frank is 23 goals and 13 caps off. Call me pessimistic, but I dont think they can make that up.

Frank is only 13 goals off Chelsea's though. He could do that. But, you know, it's Chelsea.

Cheesy said:
I agree with Mockney. Charlton should go down as our greatest. He's got the mix of ability, legacy and longevity that your greatest ever should have in my opinion.
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Yep. He ticks all the boxes. The longevity of Giggs & Scholes plus an insanely consistent influence & best player in Europe mantle.

Brwned said:
Is it not a bit disingenuous to call Charlton a midfielder?
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Ish, yeah. But he was still more withdrawn than most of the luminaries beneath him on those lists (certainly Law & Lineker, who are his closest competitors on them) Well, I imagine anyway. I'm educated guessing more than definitively stating.

Fwiw I think Rooney will probably break the England one, and possibly the United one. Then we'd have something to think about.
 
paceme said:
Yep. It pisses me off the whole 'I won't pick them because I haven't seen them' As soon as I found out I could I went looking for videos and matches of our legends, surely it should be natural to want to see people who have played for your club and may be the best in it's history? It seems some people couldn't give two shits.

You don't need to have watched someone for 100s of games to gauge how good they are.
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I have to say, I can't quite assess the likes of Taylor and Edwards, very little footage available. Didn't want to penalise them or go for a "have seen many many times" selection... so just sat on the fence and didn't post anything at all :lol:
 
antohan said:
Best also got the Ballon d'Or without needing his teammates and John Terry to bail him out in Moscow
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worst post of the year surely?

theres just so much wrong with it its incredible, and i agree ronaldo shouldnt be number one maybe not even tip 5 but this is so stupid its beyond belief. I just dont understand how someone can type it and it not even register what theyre saying might make so little sense. anyway,maybe this is one of those whoosh moments as i havent read the thread entirely,this just caught my eye. hopefully it was said as a joke.
 
antohan said:
I have to say, I can't quite assess the likes of Taylor and Edwards, very little footage available. Didn't want to penalise them or go for a "have seen many many times" selection... so just sat on the fence and didn't post anything at all :lol:
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It's just after that generation that you can watch, from the 60s onward there is stuff lurking about.
 
I guess I go back to the question I posed in the voting thread. Did anyone who saw Best play live not place him first (or second if they were old enough to recall Edwards as well).

To me, Best really was all that - up there with Maradona, ahead of Cruyff and the like - and indeed ahead of Charlton and Law. Globally, he was denied the recognition that a WC could have brought but watching him, you knew you were seeing an extraordinary player. Almost a once in a lifetime player.

Almost, because if Ronaldo had stuck around for longer then perhaps he could have matched him and almost, because I remain an optimist that I'll see another one.
 
Mockney said:
Great Piece of Gash? Goal Poaching Git? Goat Pig Guy?
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Goals Per Game. We may as well start watching basketball.

Fwiw I think Rooney will probably break the England one, and possibly the United one. Then we'd have something to think about.
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It is one thing that strikes you, he was part of the same successful period but has stayed longer, his goalscoring record is better and he should almost certainly breach the current ones. I wonder how much the whole wanting out episode has affected perceptions of him though.

He doesn't have the talent relative to Ronaldo or charisma relative to Cantona but he does bear the mark of those deserving to be a Best Ever: when the chips are down, who do people look out for? Who is the heartbeat that gives everyone confidence the tide can be turned?

That to me is what separates boys from men in that category. Scholes enters a midfield in disarray and instantly fixes it. Giggs has done his fair share of wonderful game-changing interventions (the 4-3 against City even more so than THAT goal). Keano in Turin :drool: among many many others.

Ronaldo? Don't remember him taking one of those tough games by the scruff of the neck and turning it around, all I remember are his forlorn stares into the sky and complaints about various injustices. His Clásico performances lately seem to indicate he may get there though.
 
SER19 said:
worst post of the year surely?

theres just so much wrong with it its incredible, and i agree ronaldo shouldnt be number one maybe not even tip 5 but this is so stupid its beyond belief. I just dont understand how someone can type it and it not even register what theyre saying might make so little sense. anyway,maybe this is one of those whoosh moments as i havent read the thread entirely,this just caught my eye. hopefully it was said as a joke.
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More a case of deliberately trying to elicit a reaction to discuss a relevant point. When the chips are down there are several past United players I would want on the pitch ahead of Ronaldo, surely that is something that matters when picking your Best Ever.
 
paceme said:
It's just after that generation that you can watch, from the 60s onward there is stuff lurking about.
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Yeah, but I felt I was really screwing some club legends by ignoring the 50s. I had no problem narrowing the scope with the All-Time World but for the club, with the history around those two in particular... Shame really.
 
antohan said:
More a case of deliberately trying to elicit a reaction to discuss a relevant point. When the chips are down there are several past United players I would want on the pitch ahead of Ronaldo, surely that is something that matters when picking your Best Ever.
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i agree with this, picking an all time united eleven i would probably fit him in somewhere though.. the original statement is incredibly harsh on him. he was absolutely amazing that season (and the one before it and most of the one after it). so many times we needed something and it was him that produced. then it comes to the final and sure enough,right place right time, wonderful header. anyone can miss a penalty. like i said not top 5 for me but certainly that season was one of the best individual seasons ever and the fact that he was part of a quality team shouldnt take from it. also the original statement is harsh on bests team mates crerand,charlton,aston,law and so on.
 
I started watching United at the taill end of Bests reign so i'm not a kid but i believe there have been a lot of nostalgia votes or votes swinging towards peoples own favourite player.

Giggs is the longest and most decorated servant to United but imo Ronaldo is the most talented player to ever pull on a United shirt.

He still has plenty of time to go and it's only the presence of possibly the greatest player ever (Messi) that has stopped him scooping the worlds best player acolade more than he has.

Ronaldo is not my favourite United player ever, i have many over him but imo he is the most talented player we have had. The voting was correct.
 
INF-AMOS said:
I started watching United at the taill end of Bests reign so i'm not a kid but i believe there have been a lot of nostalgia votes or votes swinging towards peoples own favourite player.

Giggs is the longest and most decorated servant to United but imo Ronaldo is the most talented player to ever pull on a United shirt.

He still has plenty of time to go and it's only the presence of possibly the greatest player ever (Messi) that has stopped him scooping the worlds best player acolade more than he has.

Ronaldo is not my favourite United player ever, i have many over him but imo he is the most talented player we have had. The voting was correct.
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How's that relevant to this discussion though? Ronaldo doesn't play for us anymore, so it doesn't matter how much time he has to go, unless he plays here again, which is unlikely, then he could score 900 each season and it would be irrelevant.
 
INF-AMOS said:
I started watching United at the taill end of Bests reign so i'm not a kid but i believe there have been a lot of nostalgia votes or votes swinging towards peoples own favourite player.

Giggs is the longest and most decorated servant to United but imo Ronaldo is the most talented player to ever pull on a United shirt.

He still has plenty of time to go and it's only the presence of possibly the greatest player ever (Messi) that has stopped him scooping the worlds best player acolade more than he has.

Ronaldo is not my favourite United player ever, i have many over him but imo he is the most talented player we have had. The voting was correct.
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You do realize he doesn't play for us anymore right?
 
ERICSAGOD said:
The whole problem with this poll, is that depending what age you are will affect the way you vote.

I mean Duncan Edwards, who Bobby Charlton always says was the greatest footballer he ever saw is in 10th place!!!???

Not even a mention for the incredible Tommy Taylor, possibly the most underated player in here.

189 appearances for United and 131 goals, 19 appearances for England and 16 goals. Chew on those figures Ronaldo!!!
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In your opinion would he have the same stats in football today?
 
Bottom line. Those who think Ronaldo is the greatest united player are fecking retarded. He was arguably the most talented of Fergusons reign. But I would rank him waaaay down the list in so far as contributions to the team. He was only really great for 2 and a half seasons, and then he left for Madrid, in a less than dignified manner.
 
Randall Flagg said:
In your opinion would he have the same stats in football today?
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The reason I posted Tommy Taylor's stats was in reply to the stats posted showing how great a player Ronaldo supposedly was.

It was also to question how a great goalscorer like Tommy Taylor didn't even figure in this poll.
 
rondaldo is kewl tho he duz flix and i post em on utube :):):):)
 
paceme said:
You do realize he doesn't play for us anymore right?
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That's the problem with caf in general, lot of the people here still don't get it that Cristiano Ronaldo isn't Manchester United player anymore, and that he stopped being that 3 years ago. It's enough to look through those lists about caf's best players of all times, lots of people have him as second or third best player of all time.
 
Lynk said:
Bottom line. Those who think Ronaldo is the greatest united player are fecking retarded. He was arguably the most talented of Fergusons reign. But I would rank him waaaay down the list in so far as contributions to the team. He was only really great for 2 and a half seasons, and then he left for Madrid, in a less than dignified manner.
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He was the most talented I have seen in over 20 years.

I put him number one for that reason.

Eric was my hero growing up and I found it hard to admit Ronaldo was the superior player for us. And he was
 
Randall Flagg said:
He was the most talented I have seen in over 20 years.

I put him number one for that reason.

Eric was my hero growing up and I found it hard to admit Ronaldo was the superior player for us. And he was
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I think he could well be. But seeing as how he was only great for about 2 and a half seasons, I struggle to call him a legend, let alone the greatest player to have played for the club. In fact I'd put him below Rooney, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona, to name a few.
 
paceme said:
If we were on, say, a Milan forum, would Ronaldo even be in their list of the 20 best players ever?
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Fat Ronaldo? No. He didn't come of age with them and help win them a European Cup. Kaka would though, easily.

Or are we talking hypothetically if our Ronaldo played for them? Because I've no idea how to answer that.
 
Mockney said:
Fat Ronaldo? No. He didn't come of age with them and help win them a European Cup. Kaka would though, easily.

Or are we talking hypothetically if our Ronaldo played for them? Because I've no idea how to answer that.
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i think he means if they were just voting best players for any club ever
 
This is very disappointing. Why wasn't this thread called "RedCafe's top 20 Manchester United players of all-time except for Ronaldo 'cos he doesn't play for us anymore"?
I feel like I just wasted my vote now.
 
Also the OP should have mentioned the "best" criteria before.

Best as in overall contributions or best as in just in term of pure ability and talent or best at the player's best.
 
SER19 said:
i agree with this, picking an all time united eleven i would probably fit him in somewhere though..
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I sure would as well, but I would have 5 names on the teamsheet before his and that's just because I struggle to work out how I would fit Charlton, Robbo, Keane and Scholes into the same side.

the original statement is incredibly harsh on him. he was absolutely amazing that season (and the one before it and most of the one after it). so many times we needed something and it was him that produced. then it comes to the final and sure enough,right place right time, wonderful header. anyone can miss a penalty.
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He had a wonderful season, but he did fluff his lines though, didn't he? It was so predictable it wasn't even funny (certainly wasn't!).

like i said not top 5 for me but certainly that season was one of the best individual seasons ever and the fact that he was part of a quality team shouldnt take from it. also the original statement is harsh on bests team mates crerand,charlton,aston,law and so on.
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:confused: I never called the '68 side a one-man team, rather the opposite. Ronaldo was more clearly the main man talent-wise, and with that comes responsibility. As it turns out it was the others who showed the mental strength to win an absolutely nerve-wracking shootout.

I wouldn't mind it, except that only a year later he trodded off the pitch as if he was never going to win the CL with that dross around him, then had a go at the tactics, etc... It was as if he had some divine right to win the CL every year and those same guys who bailed him out were now deadweight.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Also the OP should have mentioned the "best" criteria before.

Best as in overall contributions or best as in just in term of pure ability and talent or best at the player's best.
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Definitely.

Also by best he should have specified that only time when he played at United counts.

For example at C.Ronaldo, I would have put his as the best player who at some stage of his career played for United, second after Best as the best player who ever played at United (counting only his time when he played here), but I dunno if he would had a place in my Top 10 best United's players if we count the overall contribution.
 
SER19 said:
i think he means if they were just voting best players for any club ever
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Oh right. That makes more sense.

Well the first Inter Forum I went on has him & Messi virtually neck & neck.

http://forzainterforums.com/showthread.php?7428-Messi-vs-CR

711 said:
This is very disappointing. Why wasn't this thread called "RedCafe's top 20 Manchester United players of all-time except for Ronaldo 'cos he doesn't play for us anymore"?
I feel like I just wasted my vote now.
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:lol:
 
George Best is the best player ever. But everyone sees the game differently.

As someone who loves playing football, he is the one player I'd love to have on my team.
 
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