A groupie?Yeah right, you've voted for me once in the whole tournament. Wouldn't call that a groupie.
I don't vote late in landslides. Sue me.
Redcafe Sheep Draft Final - Gio vs Thisistheone
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
I don't vote late in landslides. Sue me.
They probably had better things to do with their time, lets be honest.
@Thisistheone Voted for Gio. Loved your team, but Rivaldo is a favorite. Him Nedved and Davids are too many of my favorites not to vote for.
You have a great one too though.
You have a great one too though.
Aye, my point was actually Makelele should be there. There's merit in Vieira or Redondo, but to me Scholes and Makelele were untouchable.
Tito says Scholes is not pulling the strings though, Redondo is. Scholes is bombing forward apparently, and now doing very much a lot of the stuff I assumed Totti was doing anyway.
Scholes pulling strings, with a better passer and competent DM next to him (Redondo) and Makelele shielding the back four. Can't see why it is so hard to see that is a great option. You can agree or disagree on whether it is better, but instead it has all been about how Makelele would be too negative and not worthy of the front-foot nature of Tito's game. As I said, the Galácticos were into playing on the front-foot, weren't they? And they all actually agreed Makelele HELPED them do that.
Go figure.
No worries. Thanks for posting.
I don't think you need/want the runner from midfield on the same side as Stoichkov/Cafu though.
Not sure I would call their posts about the Arsenal players today 'better things'
. They seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to convince the Caf that Özil is actually having a brilliant season.Well no, they actually voted, even posted to say they were voting, but never commented
He's got one hell of a defense and defensive midfielders though. In such a tight game, a late surge into the box from one of them could make the difference.
Actually now you bring it up, neither Cafu or Stoichkov have got a mention yet.
Not sure I would call their posts about the Arsenal players today 'better things'
Now there's fighting a losing battle if ever I saw one.
Even a Nesta or Kohler would struggle to stop Romario from scoring. Hell I needed to keep Bergomi, Campbell and Kohler tight together to just about fend him off against Edgar Allan Poe and was lucky that they didn't have any attacking width to be able to do that. And while the greats might have a chance of limiting Romario's impact, to some extent at least, he's good for a goal or two up against Montero and Ferrara, both of whom were excellent defenders but neither of whom belong in that upper echelon. Especially when their one weakness is exposed so brutally by a striker of Romario's unique calibre. There's a mismatch there and it's bound to be exploited with the service from Rivaldo, Hagi and Nedved.
that is a good point on Cafu (relevant to Roberto Carlos as well). Why would you need an extra runner in midfield when you have two of the best fullbacks of all time able to drive up the pitch and join the attãck?
IMO Scholes-Makélélé-Redondo is the way to go. Scholes provides the mobile, attacking option whereas Redondo can play from the middle. Huge wide threats in Cafu and RC which offset the loss of Vieira's extra mobility.
It works in both offence and defence because Gio has no playmaking from deep with Davids-Simeone, they will rarely, if ever cut open a defence. They were both known for several other qualitys than passing...
IMO Scholes-Makélélé-Redondo is the way to go. Scholes provides the mobile, attacking option whereas Redondo can play from the middle. Huge wide threats in Cafu and RC which offset the loss of Vieira's extra mobility.
It works in both offence and defence because Gio has no playmaking from deep with Davids-Simeone, they will rarely, if ever cut open a defence. They were both known for several other qualitys than passing...
With all the talent around, Vieira making a run from midfield is extremely unlikely to make the difference in this game. Probably about 2%. (yes, I'm fecking about with the scientific percentages)
Gio's change made.
It's Maldini not Roberto Carlos Pippa
I could've sworn one of you said you had Roberto Carlos on your team
Edit: It was this post that confused me.
Edit: It was this post that confused me.
I'm a bit knackered after all that. Gonna have a break and pop back later on. Will leave with some thoughts on my two full backs:
Both Maldini and Cafu have a claim to being the finest full back of the modern era. Vastly gifted and hugely successful. Both are out and out winners.
Here, they have enough in their locker to deal with the threats possed from Gio's side to get forward and influence the match. Cafu's energy seemed limitless at times and Maldini was very intelligent with his play from the left.
Ahead of them they have Stoichkov and Suarez. Two quick and tricky forwards. I believe all four can link up very well indeed.
Both Maldini and Cafu have a claim to being the finest full back of the modern era. Vastly gifted and hugely successful. Both are out and out winners.
Here, they have enough in their locker to deal with the threats possed from Gio's side to get forward and influence the match. Cafu's energy seemed limitless at times and Maldini was very intelligent with his play from the left.
Ahead of them they have Stoichkov and Suarez. Two quick and tricky forwards. I believe all four can link up very well indeed.
Problem is that you have Vieira here running against Davids? Surely you prefer Cafu to make the run all the time to provide width with Stoichkov exploiting the space Totti opens up when he drops deep? I'd much rather have Davids dragged onto a slightly deeper sitting Redondo here instead of crowding the area where Stoichkov wants to cause problems.
I could've sworn one of you said you had Roberto Carlos on your team
Ahh I know what you're on about - the point TITO made on Roberto Carlos is that he always gets slated in these drafts for being terrible defensively, he's a real liability in virtually every draft.
What TITO was saying there is that Carlos reputation on here suffers defensively because he was so good offensively. With Redondo it seems to be a similar thing, he was so good on the ball that he's being perceived as a weakness off it when he wasn't like that at all.
I wish - I wouldn't have fannied about with inside-rights and would've just gone straight for the jugular in that case.I could've sworn one of you said you had Roberto Carlos on your team
Edit: It was this post that confused me.
Left this then as didn't want to keep banging on when people were starting to reason properly (i.e. it's not Makelele OR Redondo).
Redondo is a terrible fit whether you want him shielding or doing a personal detail. With Makelele I wouldn't be averse to him sticking to Rivaldo. Let's face it, Nedved pretty much HAS to stay wide and keep Maldini busy there, so down to Rivaldo and Hagi I would have Makelele doing a job on Rivaldo, a much better job than Redondo ever did on him, and leave Vieira/Redondo to worry about Hagi cutting inside.
You take out Rivaldo and you've ripped the heart and soul out of Gio, that's half the game won. Would I play Makelele to have half the game won? Yes, limited on the ball or not, he starts ahead of anyone else in this draft just to do that job.
That is not the same at all. Pippa's post on why Makelele would suit the system better than Redondo covered it perfectly well. To say everyone saying so is underrating Redondo in Carlos fashion is absurd. Almost every one has said that he is the best CM of the lot.
I also don't think reverting Scholes to his second striker/AM role is gonna work in a false 9 formation. His peak in that role came when he was paired up with Ruud. Some who was good enough in the box to occupy both the center backs. No similarity to Totti dropping into the midfield.
I could've sworn one of you said you had Roberto Carlos on your team
Edit: It was this post that confused me.
Nah, that was some spastic point about Redondo being good on the ball and thus underrated defensively. I first spotted Redondo in 1988 while playing for Argentinos Juniors, watched him there, at Tenerife, then Real...
But no, I underrate him because he could pass a ball.
Ah, I guess Theon is going on about it given crappys post.
Agree on Scholes, but TITO said the real point there is just that he can get forward and make bursts from deep more with Redondo's passing into Totti. I don't think he would ever be playing as a second striker - on the formation graph it's clear he's a CM.
When Totti had his best season in this role it was with runners getting beyond him. I don't think the Scholes point is a huge tactical change but he was always a great finisher.
Disagree in Redondo. I never said the Roberto Carlos point so I'm not gonna comment on that but I do think he's being underrated defensively.
I'm pretty clear on my routes to goal in this game:
- Romario has the quickness of mind and fleetness of foot to escape the clutches of Montero and Ferrara.
- Rivaldo has the tools and big-game mentality to get beyond Redondo and win the match.
- There are the long-range options offered by Rivaldo, Hagi, Nedved and Brehme.
Nothing that I said, right? What I said was just me being biased and "attacking your team".You couldn't make it up!
You couldn't make it up!
It's the way you communicate yourself. They don't go around calling other posters "Spastics" or posting a giant picture of a horse and clog up the whole thread.
What was so hard to grasp from the post below? You were the one resorting to abuse calling me an idiot and an embarrassment... then doing your best to belittle your own player when someone is telling you he is beter suited to a job.
All points have now gone full circle.
I'm awesome.
(lulzy)
All points have now gone full circle.
I'm awesome.
(lulzy)
Now I'm kinda fecked. Everything I criticised is gone now and I've no clue who to vote for. Couldn't you guys be more stubborn and stick to your opinion .
.Well Makelele's record against Rivaldo isn't that great in fact if we look at 1999/2000 and 2000/2001:
1999/2000
Celta Vigo 0-2 Barcelona
Rivaldo scores second goal.
2000/2001
Barcelona 2-0 Real Madrid
Rivaldo wins free-kick for first goal and sets up second. Makelele jettisoned after an hour.
Real Madrid 2-2 Barcelona
Rivaldo scores both goals in a memorable performance. Races away from Makelele for the first; thumps in from 30 yards for the second; then has a deflected third cruelly denied by a dodgy refereeing call.
So even with the change, I fancy Rivaldo to still get the better of the Frenchman.
It really is a tough one now... need to resort to @Chesterlestreet 's idea (where the feck is him anyway?)
_______
I struggle to see Tito scoring. Certainly nothing much going on on the left, the right flank is appealing but it's a mighty battle between Cafú and Brehme, and Kohler-Brehme is a World Cup-winning pair. It all looks very robust centrally. @Gio, is Davids staying in that space or trying to pick up Redondo? I would assume Hagi doesn't track Cafú but keeps tabs on Redondo. No?
At the other end, I think there's a definite goal in Romario vs. Montero-Ferrara but not really more than that. Tito will control much of the game and I continue to not find Gio particularly fluid or able to counter quickly and effectively.
So it's a 1-0 for Gio or a 1-1 but I can't see either side scoring twice.
I struggle to see Tito scoring. Certainly nothing much going on on the left, the right flank is appealing but it's a mighty battle between Cafú and Brehme, and Kohler-Brehme is a World Cup-winning pair. It all looks very robust centrally. @Gio, is Davids staying in that space or trying to pick up Redondo? I would assume Hagi doesn't track Cafú but keeps tabs on Redondo. No?
At the other end, I think there's a definite goal in Romario vs. Montero-Ferrara but not really more than that. Tito will control much of the game and I continue to not find Gio particularly fluid or able to counter quickly and effectively.
So it's a 1-0 for Gio or a 1-1 but I can't see either side scoring twice.
Bloody hell, @Chesterlestreet hasn't been online 3-4 weeks. Hope everything is alright.
Yeah, a bit worrying. His last post was saying he had some business to attend to and that he'd be back on later, but hasnt been seen since.
Partnerships:
GIO: Kohler-Brehme (WC 1990), Simeone-Nedved (Lazio), Davids-Nedved (Juve), Rivaldo-Romario (Brazil). Irrelevant: Bergomi-Simeone (Inter), Hagi-Romario (Barca).
TITO: Core three (Juve), Maldini-Cafú (Milan), Cafú-Totti (Roma). Irrelevant: Totti/Ferrara/Maldini (Italy).
For all my complaining about Gio not playing fluidly enough, most of his partnerships would indicate a good understanding going on "in the kitchen".
Conversely, Tito has his across the back five, which makes me wonder about that surefire Romario goal. But then, peak Romario would love to be played against Montero-Ferrara, exactly the sort who would suffer with him.
Such an obvious non-bore of a draw.
GIO: Kohler-Brehme (WC 1990), Simeone-Nedved (Lazio), Davids-Nedved (Juve), Rivaldo-Romario (Brazil). Irrelevant: Bergomi-Simeone (Inter), Hagi-Romario (Barca).
TITO: Core three (Juve), Maldini-Cafú (Milan), Cafú-Totti (Roma). Irrelevant: Totti/Ferrara/Maldini (Italy).
For all my complaining about Gio not playing fluidly enough, most of his partnerships would indicate a good understanding going on "in the kitchen".
Conversely, Tito has his across the back five, which makes me wonder about that surefire Romario goal. But then, peak Romario would love to be played against Montero-Ferrara, exactly the sort who would suffer with him.
Such an obvious non-bore of a draw.
I know, I thought he may have taken his game badly at the beginning but have been worried about it for a couple of weeks now. Doesn't stack up
What happened with Chester?
I think it would more than likely be a draw aswell which is making it difficult to vote. Think TITO definately will have a good control of the game, but Romario against Ferrara-Montero is the most likely source of a goal that i can see anywhere, same as when i played TITO.
@antohan I completely disagree that it would be either 1-0 Gio or 1-1, I can easily see Gio score twice. I can't see TITO scoring over once sadly..
Looking at that I wonder if you would actually play Michel out right and Nedved left with a license to roam.
It's a shame to have Pavel as the designated Maldini-widedragger when he would have such great understanding with both CMs.
Michel would get blasted though, unfortunately.