Playing outright as a RB and playing as a right sided CB are two different things as you noted and I don't think you can shrug that off. I am not saying it's a weakness but claims of Thuram is the best defensive RB are a bit outlandish in my opinion. Especially when you consider the man himself said he preferred playing as a CB and did not like playing as a RB for France.
Redafe Champions League Draft - Snow v Fergus'son
- Thread starter Theon
- Start date
Playing outright as a RB and playing as a right sided CB are two different things as you noted and I don't think you can shrug that off. I am not saying it's a weakness but claims of Thuram is the best defensive RB are a bit outlandish in my opinion. Especially when you consider the man himself said he preferred playing as a CB and did not like playing as a RB for France.
Two flawed teams in the sense that attackers a are playing out of position. I think the individual/overall better quality in Snow's team and the familiarity of the backline edges it. How many players can you take from somebody once you have beaten them?
He did say he prefers playing centre back but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't his best position. It's not even debateable where he was best, at Juve he eventually got moved to right back for a period because he wasn't working well with Ferrara in the centre. Eventually his pace dipped and he became more cultured/natural at centre back, but his peak was unquestionably as a right back.
Who can you think of as a better defensive right back?
Disagree really. His peak was at Parma where he only ever played as a Right Back when Parma switched to a four at the back. He spent vast majority of his career playing at Center Back so unless you are only concentrating on his games for France his peak was at Center Back.
I don't know but it's not someone who played more games in the centre.
Thuram as one of the best right back of all time shouldn't even be questioned.
This is really close, thought you would have been better to play Moller Fergus, I personally think he edges Aimar in that position.
That's I agree. Don't think much of Aimar.
Complete rubbish man. He was never the same standard at centreback as he was at right back, and he played there more often than you are letting on at Parma and when they didn't he would play on the right of a three man central defence which isn't the same thing. He was 30ish when he went to Juve so that shouldn't be the measure of the peak of his career IMO.
He has gone down (rightly) as one of the Top 5 right backs in history, he wouldn't be close to that at centre back.
Fergus!
Ouch, that must mean I am defending his team too much? To be fair I'm only talking about Thuram as a right back vs centre back, not really overly relevant to the game and everyone should agree he is brilliant there anyway, because he just was.
Whoops, edited
Makelele - Schweinsteiger is too good to be true
This game is getting tight now.
Theres been about 5 votes in it pretty much all day
Well pardon me, then! 
There was seven (I think) when I logged on around 5 o'clock.
There was seven (I think) when I logged on around 5 o'clock.
Didn't mean to sound so dismissive
I really can't seperate them..
Who wins the midfield battle? Mendieta is the best ballplayer by a distance, but the physicality of Makelele and Schweinsteiger is bigger than Albelda/Mendieta
Who wins the midfield battle? Mendieta is the best ballplayer by a distance, but the physicality of Makelele and Schweinsteiger is bigger than Albelda/Mendieta
Bit of a stalemate for me. The best player on the park has to get the better of the best defensive right-back of the draft. Tarnat is a weak link at this level but Snow doesn't really have the players in the right positions to expose him. Mendieta could but I'm not sure to what extent you'd want to pull him out of the engine room. Ayala is the best centre-half on the park but him and Samuel could be vulnerable to the directness of Torres, especially with the creative trio backing him up. At the other end, Villa could get in behind Gallas especially if Batistuta occupies both of Terry and Carvalho. I think Fergus'son has a bit more graft/balance in his midfield, but ultimately I can't really seperate them.
No question, he still is now! 11 yellows in 16 starts
As a partnership though it's clear Makelele/Schweinsteiger are physically and defensively better than Mendieta/Albelda, but Medieta is the best in possession and obviously you have a greater threat on the flanks with Ronaldinho.
Just thinking, we have totally forgot about our sub in the OP. Its this fella incase anyone is wondering. Bernd Schneider. He's ok on the bench at the min.
Sorry guys, can't spend much time on at the moment. Moller will be coming on soon in place of Aimar to provide are direct goal threat and toughen up the midfield to a more dominant level. Moller can occupy Carvalho and Terry perhaps a little bit more than Aimar and Batistuta will definitely capitalise on the space, remember batigol is perhaps the greatest goalscorer of the 90's, an absolute beast and my team is pretty well structured to get the best out of him, especially now. I do think the game should be tighter and hopefully my quality tells in the latter stages.
Also, I can't help but feel Tarnat, though maybe a little uninspiring in the context of the draft, he was a wingback who can get forward and do damage, there does seem that there's a glimmer of chance that he and Villa could catch them with a surprise move. Villa is a game changer in himself, from both up front and fom the wing.
Also, I can't help but feel Tarnat, though maybe a little uninspiring in the context of the draft, he was a wingback who can get forward and do damage, there does seem that there's a glimmer of chance that he and Villa could catch them with a surprise move. Villa is a game changer in himself, from both up front and fom the wing.
Also, I can't really believe that there has been more talk and questioning of Thuram at RB than Gallas in the same position, baffling IMO.
What do people think of Schneider out of interest?
I'm not sure why Thuram has been questioned, he was immense and would be miles ahead of any other full-back in peak form today.
As for Schneider, not a player who I'm getting my cock out over to be honest Cutch.
As for Schneider, not a player who I'm getting my cock out over to be honest Cutch.
Good operator for Leverkusen and Germany in fairness. He was technically sound with an eye for a pass and good dribbling skills, yet his career kind of underwhelmed. I suppose that's unfair considering he was one of the main men on that excellent Leverkusen team that nearly swept all before them in 2002, but he always struck me as a player a level away from the top tier. Very similar to Mehmet Scholl in how they played the game, but the latter's trophy haul will see history look upon him far more favourably.
He's not a cock out type player though Gio. His role in this side would be as a grafter to supplement Ronaldinho on the other side. Would provide a bit more balance perhaps as more of an out and out winger. Just a bit worried that everyone seems obsessed with midfielders working back. I'm starting to think we should have picked a team of Dirk Kuyts. Having Ronaldinho is almost being sounded like its a bad thing
Yeah I can see how that would work. He would bring more balance both in terms of graft/flair and narrowness/width. To be fair to Schneider he was no mug by any means, and was an integral component of an excellent Leverkusen team, but won't be as vote-worthy as most midfielders in the draft.
Möller replaces Aimar for Fergus
That's a sensible move. Aimar rarely lasted the 90 even at his best when he was usually sacrificed for a more defensive option.
I voted for Fergus, but its ridiculously tough to seperate these teams. I felt he had the stronger central midfield and the more reliable goal threats.
Looks like less than half of them have voted. Quite the poor turnout from them but a decent from the rest.
Have to assume that some of them can't decide. There are always going to be people that are undecided in a match like this.
Approaching the closing stages and my team is making a final push for goals/votes. The fresh legs of Moller aswell as the big game mentality of Muller, Villa and Batigol will come to the fore, Makelele and Bastian have great engines so are continuing to drive the team forward and my full backs are pushing up in support. Can't help but feel its been a slight blunder by the opposition not targeting my lb and he seems to have found a place in this game attacking Gallas...
The game is tight, and the physique and fitness of my players is telling. Mendieta, and in particular Ozil and Torres usually were brought off towards the end of games, even during thier peak, yet they are still on in an extremely competitive game which has left them particularly tired.
There's only one team looking like scoring, and you'de back any of my front four to get pop up with a hugely vital goal. All of Muller, Villa and Batigol have scored some really important ones and they're in the search for one now...
There's only one team looking like scoring, and you'de back any of my front four to get pop up with a hugely vital goal. All of Muller, Villa and Batigol have scored some really important ones and they're in the search for one now...
This is close!
Wow, nice comeback Fergus'son.
a lot closer than when i voted (my vote made it 14-18).
Scholl was clearly the better player, imo. Sadly, his career was hampered by countless injuries, but at his best he was brilliant. Schneider was a great player during a time when Germany massively lacked quality attacking players. I doubt he would have been an integral part of the nationalteam in the nineties or today. Seems like Scholl is massively underrated (or overrated by me?) but I think he really deserved to get picked in the draft.
Of course Schneider is still a great pick. He had a brilliant CL campaign and the standout game of his career is probably the world cup final in 2002. That was by far Germany's best game at that world cup mostly thanks to him. If we consider that year as his peak, I'd start him ahead of Özil on the right. He wouldn't look out of place in the team at all, imo.