Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?

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ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.
One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.
LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.
However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.
Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.
United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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Based on what exactly ? The main teams have gotten better this season so what makes you think we wouldn't have been worse than last season if LVG was still in charge ? It's amazing how some believe very firmly that the theories they conjure in their heads, are the absolute truth.
FWIW, not saying anything how LVG would have this team performing, I just know that the 2 previous seasons were disasters and this one isn't even finished its halfway
 
Even if we are not getting results, under Mourinho I'm actually enjoying watching Man Utd play again.
 
OP is a car crash. If we're still getting the same poor results at the end of next season I don't think anyone would complain if Mourinho got the sack. We can look back at Van Gaal and be absolutely certain we were shit after two years in charge. So why does less than half a season of poor results under Mou make Van Gaal any less shit with hindsight?

Results aside. The performances are night and day. The draws with Burnley, Stoke and West Ham would be as bad as some of our worst results under Van Gaal yet infinitely more enjoyable to watch. For that reason alone, I worry about the mental health of anyone who pines for our previous manager.
 
I also blame the previous manager for a lot of the flaws we see in this team. Two years being relentlessly coached to be risk averse will engrain patterns that are hard to shake off. The periods within games where we look a bit flat and out of ideas seem to be temporary reversions to our approach under Van Gaal.
 
All managers following SAF had given top priority to their ‘philosophy’ instead of having a good look to the quality of the team, its strengths and weaknesses and how they can get the best out of the team. Its like a mechanic who keeps buying top quality oil despite the engine is broken. It won’t work

This leads us to a highly dysfunctional team which is littered with contradictions. Take for example the forward line. We’ve got two, possibly three 6ft3+ players (Ibra, Pogba and Fellaini) which suggest that we would be very strong on air. Yet, most of our wingers are strikers (Martial, Rashford) inside forwards (Mkhitaryan and Depay) or no 10s (Rooney and Mata) whose instinct is to cut inside and not cross at all. When we need some width we resort to frigging Lingard who ends up first teamer despite having spent more than 100m on the flanks on Young (who was given a new contract and has barely played ever since), Mkhitaryan (where is he?), Mata, Depay (the scout who suggested this piece of crap should be publically flogged at OT) and Martial.

The defence is also full of contradictions too. We’ve got 4 CBs (Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Bailly) but no leader and because they are injury prone/not good enough we keep on playing midfielders there. Once Smalling is out, we also lack inches so we play a no 10 as DM to compensate. That screw up the midfield who in turn is still heavily reliant on a 35 year old and that despite the fact that we’ve spend nearly 200m in it (Pogba, Fellaini, Herrera, Bastian, Blind and Schneiderlin).

What we need is to have a good look at the team, we acknowledge those who are worth to build a team upon and those who are simply not good enough and then we come out with a plan. In my opinion we should have a plan A and a plan B which would allow us with a spectrum of combinations that will make us unpredictable. On one side of the spectrum we should be playing with inside forwards, full backs that can cross the ball and a quick false 9 striker who constantly switch roles with other players. On the other side of the spectrum we’ve got two quick wingers who can cross the ball and 1-2 target men who can score goals.

Considering that Mou had already committed himself to keep his version of Bastian/Fellaini for another year, this would be my team for next year.

GK: DDG, Romero, some kid
RB: Aurier, Cancelo
CB: Gimenez, Smalling
CB: Bailly,Lindelöf, Jones
LB: Shaw, Blind, CBJ

DM1: Paredes, Schneiderlin, TFM
DM2: Wiegl, Herrera
No 10: Pogba, Mata

AMR: Mkhitaryan, Valencia
AML: Martial, Young, Lingard

STK: Ibra, Rashford
 
Pogue Mahone said:
OP is a car crash. If we're still getting the same poor results at the end of next season I don't think anyone would complain if Mourinho got the sack. We can look back at Van Gaal and be absolutely certain we were shit after two years in charge. So why does less than half a season of poor results under Mou make Van Gaal any less shit with hindsight?

Results aside. The performances are night and day. The draws with Burnley, Stoke and West Ham would be as bad as some of our worst results under Van Gaal yet infinitely more enjoyable to watch. For that reason alone, I worry about the mental health of anyone who pines for our previous manager.
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I'll never fecking understand this need to draw conclusions after a few months. The entire "I told you so" :lol:, even when they're completely fecked up in their logic will always amaze me. I think the caf is a therapy for people who have real issues.
 
I really want to know where people want us to go if we are to get rid of Mourinho. Just picture this hypothetical but highly likely scenario where we have sacked Mourinho and 12 months on from now we are still struggling under the next manager. Seriously, that thought scares the shit out of me.

In my head i had accepted that if Jose cannot get us going then nobody can. We could be on our 4th manager in 5 years next season. Christ, what an absolute clusterfeck of a club we have become. Ed Woodward is going to go down as one of the worst Chief Execs ever to exist in football, we have become a farce since he took control.
 
Many people talk about Mourinho's last period in Chelsea as a failure. They forget that he stayed two years and a couple of months and he won one Premiership. Right now, I'd settle for one Premiership every three years, wouldn't you?
 
Kilthism all said:
Even if we are not getting results, under Mourinho I'm actually enjoying watching Man Utd play again.
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Agree with this. The last two seasons nearly put me off football altogether. Not just because of the results but the tumescent style of football. Even winning a game didn't have the wow factor.
 
I'll take being somewhat entertaining and shit over just shit any day of the week. But seriously, 4 months into his tenure, some people really need to get a grip. I think Most reasonable people would agree that our performances would normally have given us a higher points tally then we currently do, and suddenly things don't look so bleak. Sadly I think I'm the wrong thread for reason. Time will tell if mou is the man I want to take the club forward, but time did tell me lvg wasn't that man.
 
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kouroux said:
Based on what exactly ? The main teams have gotten better this season so what makes you think we wouldn't have been worse than last season if LVG was still in charge ? It's amazing how some believe very firmly that the theories they conjure in their heads, are the absolute truth.
FWIW, not saying anything how LVG would have this team performing, I just know that the 2 previous seasons were disasters and this one isn't even finished its halfway
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Because teams do get better once LVG is gone. It has proven to be the case that every team he has managed has gone in an upwards trajectory. The restrain he puts normally is broken with a new manager. What he is trying to say is that Jose himself is restricted in his approach to football.

We are definitely better to watch this year. Thats got more to do with the fact LVG isn't coaching the team & less to do with the fact it's anything actually positive coming from Jose.

The guy has been sent to the stands twice. That's just wrong for a club with so much attention never mind the results he is just really wrong for this role.
 
It was an absolute chore watching us under LVG. At least there's some entertainment and creativity now. The sole reason LVG managed to get any results was because he sucked the life out of the majority of games.

Not to mention the calibre of players Jose can attract. Ok, his players haven't immediately set the world alight, but it's heading in the right direction.
 
EmPeeKay said:
The team is playing better football under Mourinho, however I do think van Gaal was better in promoting the youth.
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TBF that is due to LVG underestimating how taxing the EPL is. He was forced to rely on youths
 
How this thread has made it to four pages is beyond me.
 
We were absolutely dreadful for almost all of Lvg's time.
If you look away from his first pre-season and those 4 games in february/march 2015 it was awful.
We hardly produced anything and DDG had a lot more to do.
 
Why Mourinho is better?
Even results are bad (it was bad last year as well) now it is more fun to watch this team. Players are more confident, playing with more freedom, we are creating at least some chances. Last year, to be honest, it was pain to watch United.
Last year, De Gea was our best player. He was the only one responsible for a lot of points. This year, De Gea was not a MOTM in a single match. That tells you something.
Results are not good. That is truth, we have too many draws, but we have been better team in most of our matches (beside City, Watford and Chelsea). Now, I am optimistic, not for this season maybe, but generally, we are not that far away from being powerful again. Maybe one or two more players, maybe couple of wins in a row or 1 or 2 comebacks to bring back self confidence. We will get there.
 
Snow said:
It's foolish to think that United will at all regain their glory days. Very few teams in world football ever have that kind of glory days. United are however much better under Mourinho than they ever were under LvG. LvG never gave me reason for optimism and his football was more boring that Pulis at the height of his Stoke career.

I'm only annoyed at a few players now whilst last season and the season before there were only very few things to be happy about.
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Is "boring" really the worst thing we can call LvG's football at United? Also, i disagree with the argument that it was boring. You could argue that it was labored, imperfect or flawed even.
I'll tell you what I find boring, every interview Mourinho has given since his employment. Sure on a marketing scale he has used all the right keywords, but I half expect him to "pull out a gun and shoot himself in the head" in the middle of his interviews. I honestly can hardly bare listening to him, but I feel I have to because the media tend to quote things out of context.
On the footballing side, I think all he has got us doing is playing faster. There isn't a particular plan, or an agenda to develop the intricacies of play.
The most worrying part for me is that I assess the Premier league teams to have severly dropped in quality on a European scale, and we are currently incapable of winning against relative "crap" at HOME! Adding to my worries is that I've never looked at a Mourinho team and thought this is "bloody good football", I don't even think he has a "style" of play; unless you call going in turtle defense mode a style.

So in conclusion : We haven't showed much against what I'd consider poor opposition. We have no style of play. The manager is a snoozefest to listen to. The prospect of being considered amongst the best footballing sides in Europe are slim to none, at best we'll turn into a resilient side hitting teams on the break (talking about when we play good opposition be it at home or away, not Aston Villa at home).
Still waiting for the Charlie Sheen effect the majority of the forum was preaching : Winning!
 
If Zlatan had taken chances vs Burnley and Stoke and we took our chances vs West Ham we wouldn't be talking about this. The whole structure is far better and we are playing much better in general.

Players need to take responsibility for not putting ball in the net.
 
If you went to Old Trafford during LVGs reign vs this you will know this thread isnt needed.

Chance conversion / results aside, you can see were going in the right direction. Under LVG it was boring AF.
 
Drz said:
Is "boring" really the worst thing we can call LvG's football at United? Also, i disagree with the argument that it was boring. You could argue that it was labored, imperfect or flawed even.
I'll tell you what I find boring, every interview Mourinho has given since his employment. Sure on a marketing scale he has used all the right keywords, but I half expect him to "pull out a gun and shoot himself in the head" in the middle of his interviews. I honestly can hardly bare listening to him, but I feel I have to because the media tend to quote things out of context.
On the footballing side, I think all he has got us doing is playing faster. There isn't a particular plan, or an agenda to develop the intricacies of play.
The most worrying part for me is that I assess the Premier league teams to have severly dropped in quality on a European scale, and we are currently incapable of winning against relative "crap" at HOME! Adding to my worries is that I've never looked at a Mourinho team and thought this is "bloody good football", I don't even think he has a "style" of play; unless you call going in turtle defense mode a style.

So in conclusion : We haven't showed much against what I'd consider poor opposition. We have no style of play. The manager is a snoozefest to listen to. The prospect of being considered amongst the best footballing sides in Europe are slim to none, at best we'll turn into a resilient side hitting teams on the break (talking about when we play good opposition be it at home or away, not Aston Villa at home).
Still waiting for the Charlie Sheen effect the majority of the forum was preaching : Winning!
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Should have stopped reading at first bolded sentence. Didn't. Regretted my decision when I got to the second. That whole post is a big old mess of wrong.
 
Drz said:
Is "boring" really the worst thing we can call LvG's football at United?
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Nope. Ineffective and inconsistent are the bigger problems. Being boring just makes those other things more painful.
 
Kill 'em all said:
Even if we are not getting results, under Mourinho I'm actually enjoying watching Man Utd play again.
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This times 100. Last year, it was a chore to watch.

Honestly if we run out 10 more managers, we should never appoint Ryan Giggs as manager.
 
Dec9003 said:
How this thread has made it to four pages is beyond me.
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Aye, looks like a click bait thread to me. I refuse to believe a person can genuinely think it was better under LVG, so it's either click bait or he's taken one too many whacks to the head.
 
ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.
One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.
LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.
However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.
Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.
United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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1- LvG is not in the same league as SAF and Mourinho, and being given the entire second season and the chance to walk away with a trophy was very generous.

2- LvG was given two full seasons, and there were no signs anything would improve in the final year of his contract, so the "not given enough time" argument is a bit silly.

3- On the other hand you think it's fair to give us your verdict on Mourinho less than half a season in.

4- Regarding LvG putting united on track, I remember the consensus among his fanboys was that he laid foundations that managers after him would benefited from. Well, that didn't happen did it, although if we were doing better I suppose we would have heard how we somehow had LvG to thank for it.

The "told you so" bit .. not only is it premature, but also a bit weird.
 
If you aren't seeing a massive difference in terms of performance from us under Mourinho than under LvG then the problem lies with you and not us.
 
Seveneric said:
Mourinho failing (if he does), will not validate LVG or make him look better. Both can be failures, one's failure does not somehow lift the other.
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I think it is more the other way around. Mourinho not being as bad as LVG is being used to validate his performances.
 
ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.
One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.
LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.
However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.
Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.
United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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What ao load of shite
 
Because I actually enjoy watching us play rather than wishing the game would end sooner?
 
I can't believe people are saying there were no clear signs of improvement under LVG. When he unearthed Rashford and began to play him with Martial, United looked really good. Your last few months in the league were stellar (higher than City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs etc in the form league from March til the end of the season), not to mention you won the FA Cup. I was happy to see him go honestly.

Mourinho can blather on about chances but your xG tally isn't that far-off reality for the statisticians on here. I think you are perhaps 1-2 goals shy of the expected amount so far. So it's not exactly anything hugely untoward. Your expected goals conceded, though, is much higher in reality and that might give a little credence to the unlucky claim - but not in terms of United's missed chances. More so the clinical nature of your opponents so far.
 
The Purist said:
I can't believe people are saying there were no clear signs of improvement under LVG. When he unearthed Rashford and began to play him with Martial, United looked really good. Your last few months in the league were stellar (higher than City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs etc in the form league from March til the end of the season), not to mention you won the FA Cup. I was happy to see him go honestly.

Mourinho can blather on about chances but your xG tally isn't that far-off reality for the statisticians on here. I think you are perhaps 1-2 goals shy of the expected amount so far. So it's not exactly anything hugely untoward. Your expected goals conceded, though, is much higher in reality and that might give a little credence to the unlucky claim - but not in terms of United's missed chances. More so the clinical nature of your opponents so far.
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:lol: They really, really weren't.

Re the xG stuff. That just supports what the manager and fans (and, yesterday, Ander Hererra) have been saying. The results aren't matching the performances. When that starts happening the confidence will build and the performances will get better.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
:lol: They really, really weren't.
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I tend to disagree. LVG had that group of players playing above their means towards the end of the season.

Taking form from January 1st 2016 til the end of the season, United would have finished 3rd. The proof wasn't just in my head - it's measurable in terms of points. You won the most important domestic cup also. Mourinho has a better group of players playing in a way that doesn't suit their strengths and is doing worse.

Re xG: Most of the claims I've seen is that United have been unlucky in terms of chances they, themselves, haven't taken. The xG stat would suggest this isn't the case as reality doesn't vary too far from the expected. If your fans were saying 'our defence seem to be conceding from nothing. Arsenal/Stoke/West Ham played absolutely diabolical and scored with their only half chance' then they'd be correct. But most of the focus seems to be on the other end of the pitch from what I've seen.
 
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